Friendship with a priest

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Lydia739

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I originally posted this on the Vocations board but I think that was probably the wrong place for it. I would be very grateful for any advice you can give me.

I have been thinking recently about Pope John Paul II and his friendship with Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka. I would like to understand more about what’s permitted for priests, and what isn’t. To what extent is it allowable for a priest to have this kind of female “special friend”? I know that Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka was married, but what if she had been single? If a single woman has been friends with a priest since before he got ordained, and wants to make sure that the friendship does not develop into anything that might be unhelpful to him, what advice would you give her? I ask because I know a woman in this situation who is asking for advice.

Thank you.
 
I think if a woman even has to ask this question of herself, it’s a red flag that she realizes the friendship might be an occasion of sin or scandal for her or the priest, and she should distance herself.

Also, if the “woman in this situation” is such great friends with this priest, then why doesn’t she ask him these questions and talk to him directly about it? Their particular situation is unique to them and it’s pretty hard for strangers on the internet who don’t know these people and furthermore are hearing about it in some “asking for a friend” context to give advice.
 
@Lydia739
Lydia739 said:
I have been thinking recently about Pope John Paul II and his friendship with Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka.
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Though they are friends from early age ,with mutual respect for one an another ,she sought spiritual advice from him like a Spiritual Father ,their relationship was purely spiritual daughter and a sister in Christ ,as said in 1 Timothy 5:1 Do not speak harshly to an older man,but speak to him as to a father, to younger men as brothers, 2 to older women as mothers, to younger women as sisters—with absolute purity.

So your friend should also have the highest regard for the priesthood and treat him like a brother in Christ and vice versa and take spiritual advice and nothing more than that .if it goes behold this ,she should stop this so called friendship ,lest she be the stumbling block and a scandal to sin ,which is grievous indeed .
 
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Unless there is actually some attraction on one or both sides of the relationship I can’t see why this would be an issue. Aren’t we straying into Mike Pence territory here? I am a heterosexual man and I have friends who are heterosexual women, and there is absolutely no risk whatsoever that anything more is going to come out of those relationships. Similarly, and I’m not talking about priests here, it’s very common for gay men to have a lot of friends who are also gay men and for there to be no sexual attraction at all between them. Indeed, a long friendship often makes any sexual attraction all the more unlikely, as the relationship becomes more like that of family members. Finally, don’t forget that until recently (and perhaps still in some places) it was considered completely normal for a priest to live with a female housekeeper.
 
joseie said:
Consider it as a clear attempt by Satan to eventually destroy the priest.
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You don’t think you’re being a tiny bit dramatic here? It could be problematic, but saying it’s “clearly” satanic based on what little information we have in the op strikes me as hysterical.
 
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Set boundaries. They’re spiritual fathers first and foremost and should be regarded as such. Even if a woman is married there should be boundaries. It’s not unheard of for women to become very emotionally involved or overly attached to their priest, especially if they’re a spiritual director to them. Even anyone from a spiritual standpoint people also have to avoid over-attachment and needing to show respect for a priest’s needs as far as them needing time and space for their vocation.
 
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If a priest has a female friend - suspicion.
If a priest has a male friend- suspicion.
How about a certain amount of trust that like other adults they are able to set limits? Do we really begrudge our priests friendship?
 
Lydia739 said:
To what extent is it allowable for a priest to have this kind of female “special friend”?
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“Be not intimate with any woman, but generally commend all good women to God.”

The Imitation of Christ​

Thomas à Kempis
 
My advice is to let her and the priest decide whether they can maintain their friendship. They’re the only ones who know what their feelings are for each other, and the only ones who have a privilege to know.
 
You friend should talk to him about it honestly, he is really the only one who can advise her as he knows his own weaknesses which we do not and he knows his parish and her situation, which we do not. they know each other so it may be they can be like brother and sister… A priest should not have or appear to have blatant favourites in the parish and he should not of course do anything to compromise his own celibacy. He should also, for his own spiritual development (and hers) not favour particular people over others especially to the detriment of others also in need. He may be a busy man. Saying that, some parish priests are entertained by parishioners and do develop friendships which can be helpful in the various ministries of the church in a sharing capacity. So other than speaking to him she should keep herself in a state of grace and make sure her motives are pure and also accept his advice even if she does not like it. She may wish to become involved in the ministries of the church and perhaps in volunteering so it is more of a shared friendship.
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut, everyone.

A few further details in reply to the comments:

The woman (let’s call her Sarah) does not live in the priest’s parish. She is asking advice from others rather than the priest himself because she feels that to discuss it with him would be to open the door to the kind of conversation that she thinks it would be better not to have. Once that topic has been put “on the table” it can’t be unsaid. Sarah thinks (and those of us with whom she has discussed it agree) that it would be much wiser to stick to safer topics of conversation.

She is a protestant (as am I) without any RC friends that she can ask. She understands that secrecy of any kind would be unwise, and is accountable to a few other women within our church, but wanted further clarification about what exactly the boundaries are. The first time we discussed it together, we agreed that a good way for her to think about it would be to treat him as she treats friends who are married men.

However, in practice Sarah has found that it is not quite the same. In our group of friends it is generally considered that the best way to make certain that things stay “on the right side of the line” with a married male friend is to involve the wife in the friendship - either in person, if this is applicable, or by referring to her positively in the course of conversations with him if she’s not going to be present (for example, if it is a work friendship and the wife doesn’t work at the same place). However, it is difficult to see how this can be applied in the case of the priest.

Furthermore, the story of the friendship between Pope John Paul II and Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka, and in particular the things that he wrote to her about his feelings concerning the devotional scapular, have further confused us. None of us would allow a married man to write to us in the kind of terms he used when writing to her about it. So while we all continue to feel that it is important that “the line” should not be crossed, we none of us feel we understand exactly where “the line” is by RC standards. (I have particularly sensitive “radar” for nuances that might indicate the beginning of an improper direction for a friendship, having experienced the double betrayal of my husband’s affair with my then best friend.)

A few years ago when I was at a bit of a loss for how to “be there” for a divorced friend of mine who is RC, I posted a question about it on this website (referring to her as Jane and changing some details for extra anonymity), and received a great deal of (name removed by moderator)ut that meant I could support her from a position of insight rather than ignorance, for which was I very grateful, so I thought I would ask all you helpful people for (name removed by moderator)ut again.

I did also ask Jane what she thought of the “friendship with a priest” situation - she’s the only RC friend I have to ask. Her advice was for Sarah not to risk hurting the priest by offering him a closer connection in the present than she would feel able to continue in the future were she to cease to be single. This advice was well received, and is now part of what Sarah is guarding against.

Thank you again for all your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
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The bottom line is that we all are called to chastity; that is correct living out of our sexuality according to out=r status in life (married, single, ordained, under a rule of celibacy, etc.).

So she is called to be chaste. That does not mean that she cannot be friends. But it does mean that if she has any romantic feelings toward this priest, she is crossing a line morally.

She also owes him no temptation; meaning, that if he is appearing to develop a romantic attraction to her, she needs to back out.

And the same thing is the responsibility of the priest. It cuts both ways.

So, let’s just “suppose”. If she had a professional interest/background in counseling, and the priest likewise (many “counsel” not all by any means are professional), they could have a strong friendship over shared approaches to counseling. Or any other given matter - hunting, music, philosophy, theology, whatever could be the grounds of a close friendship.

One needs to plumb the depths of the matter with a searing honesty; and self honesty is not everyone’s strength. We are all eminently capable of being less than honest with ourselves as to our motivations in any number of matters.
 
Does she suspect that their relationship is beginning to cross any boundaries?
Does she feel attracted to him?
We don’t know how the priest feels, but we can know how your friend feels. Does she feel being with him is an occasion of sin?

If not, then being careful just always make sure to never put themselves in any bad looking situation. I don’t presume to know the interior life of the priest but hopefully he is comfortably chaste and has only the best of intentions of retaining a friendship.

Also, while you are here, you might look around and learn about Catholicism, especially on the main Catholic Answers site. You may just find it to be true! God bless.
 
Kei said:
Does she suspect that their relationship is beginning to cross any boundaries?
Does she feel attracted to him?
We don’t know how the priest feels, but we can know how your friend feels. Does she feel being with him is an occasion of sin?

If not, then being careful just always make sure to never put themselves in any bad looking situation. I don’t presume to know the interior life of the priest but hopefully he is comfortably chaste and has only the best of intentions of retaining a friendship.

Also, while you are here, you might look around and learn about Catholicism, especially on the main Catholic Answers site. You may just find it to be true! God bless.
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What thought-provoking questions, Kei. Thank you.
I will get back to you with the answers when I can.
 
Kei, here are the answers to your questions:

No, she does not feel that anything has happened that crosses any boundaries.

No, she doesn’t feel attracted to him “in that way”. She likes him, and she enjoys talking with him. She is single and would like to be married, so she is doing online dating in the hope of finding a suitable husband eventually. One of the things she enjoys about her friendship with the priest is that she can enjoy his conversation without any of the dating kind of complications of wondering “Do I like him? Does he like me? What impression am I giving him of how much I like him?” It makes a welcome change from the dynamic with the men she is meeting for dates. She gets the impression that she is also a bit of a change for him - someone who knew him from before, and sees him not as “Fr Fred, the priest that I look up to” but just as “Fred, whom I’ve known for years and treat as an equal, who happens to have got ordained”.

No, she doesn’t feel that being with him is an occasion for sin for her, but as you say, we do not know how he feels, and it is the not knowing whether or not it might be an occasion of sin for him, or even merely an occasion of difficulty for him, that’s the issue. While trying to put into words what it is that concerns her, she came out with the sentence “I don’t know how much I ought to take responsibility for what may or may not be going on inside his head.” She also said “I know that he enjoys talking to me, but I don’t want him to enjoy talking to me too much and I don’t really know how much would be too much.”
 
Thanks (name removed by moderator). They’re already not often, so keeping it not often won’t involve changing anything. As someone said, priests are busy, and for that matter, her life is busy too.
 
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