From a Moral standpoint

[PJM]

Should seperated, those who abandend the Faith, those who practice ONLY what they agree with…

Should they continie to call themselves “Catholic?” To identify themselves with the CC?

Why or Why not?

 

[Pondero]

Cafeteria Catholics should not call themselves Catholic as they pick and choose which doctrine to believe in. To be Catholic you have to believe in certain things, certain teachings and all the dogmas of the Church.You have to be in agreement with the Magisterium. Look to Peter and you can’t go wrong.
In communicating on other websites with such people I find they are very reluctant to quit the Church, they say they love the Church, and think they should remain in it.
Every club has rules and our Church has rules. If you don’t like the rules then quit the club - do us all a favour… These people want to do it “my way” and if they don’t like a particular teaching, they feel it doesn’t have to apply to them. They make all kinds of excuses for believing in homosexual “marriage”, saying that they have never heard a sermon on it in their lifetime. Judging by the number of dissident priests and bishops in England, I am not surprised. They also say they will toddle off to ask the priest down the road for his opinion. To which my answer was, If you ask a “liberal” priest a question, don’t be surprised if you get a “liberal” answer.

If you do express these views to them, you may get called, insensitive, intolerant and obnoxious.

What you can do for such people, and I have done this in one case, is tell them that their immortal soul is in danger and that you will pray that they will one day see the light.

 

[Heliotropium]

We are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. At the same time our souls are marked forever with the seal of the Catholic Faith. It will never be removed and can never be removed regardless of what we call ourselves or of how little we practice our faith. Judas betrayed our Lord but this doesnt remove the fact that he was an apostle of Jesus. Our Lord said that the wheat and the weeds will grow together in the Church and so they do.

All baptized Christians are Catholics…some just dont know it yet

 

[Samuel63]

Excellent Pondero!

You need to be in full communion with the Church to receive the Eucharist. This is why we call it communion.

Choosing partial adherence to Church teaching is choosing for yourself what is right and wrong. This is the mistake Eve made at the tempting of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Look at what happened after that!

Cafeterial catholics are plentiful today. Our church has been thoroughly scourged and crowned with thorns it seems.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Should seperated, those who abandend the Faith, those who practice ONLY what they agree with…

Should they continie to call themselves “Catholic?” To identify themselves with the CC?

Why or Why not?

No, they might call themselves ex-Catholics, dissident-Catholics, rebellious-Catholics, former-Catholics, cafeteria-Catholics, heretics etc. When a person identifies themselves as a Catholic it suggests to those that hear or read that claim that the person is a member of the faith…in good standing… They are not. When a person refuses one doctrine of the faith or another they put themselves outside the Church. All that must be believed was pronounced in the Vatican I Council…Chapter 3, On Faith, paragraph 8. It says:

Wherefore, by divine and catholic faith all those things are to be believed
which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition,
and which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed,
whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium

.

Only God can judge a persons soul but we on earth can judge a person by his actions. So they can play word games, start groups, make all kinds of silly claims but if they don’t accept the teachings of the Church…they outside the Church.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[PAboy57]

this is tearing the heck out of my heart. i’m dealing with it in my own family and it is putting distance between me and them.

i’m trying to surround myself with as many true catholics as possilbe. i have changed my ways but the family doesn’t want to accept that. constant comments like – in the old days you wouldn’t have …

i never want to go back to what i was. not that i’m anything great but at least i’m being as true as i possibly can. praying to get even better and for my family and departed souls. spending more time here to learn and discuss.

if you are not in full harmony with the Church then you should not call yourself so. people call themselves catholic but support abortion??? come on!!!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

this is tearing the heck out of my heart. i’m dealing with it in my own family and it is putting distance between me and them.

i’m trying to surround myself with as many true catholics as possilbe. i have changed my ways but the family doesn’t want to accept that. constant comments like – in the old days you wouldn’t have …

i never want to go back to what i was. not that i’m anything great but at least i’m being as true as i possibly can. praying to get even better and for my family and departed souls. spending more time here to learn and discuss.

if you are not in full harmony with the Church then you should not call yourself so. people call themselves catholic but support abortion??? come on!!!

You ain’t the only one with a past to live down brother…believe me. I’m still living mine down after nearly 20 years. All you can do is offer it up and hope that people will judge you by your present behavior not your past. As for family members who are making those judgements…maybe they have cause and it will take time to heal…pray for them.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[TimothyH]

Every club has rules and our Church has rules. If you don’t like the rules then quit the club - do us all a favour…

How is anyone staying in the Church addding one day to your time in purgatory and how is anyone leaving the Church subtracting one day from your time in purgatory? The Church is Christ’s body, not yours. When you recieve the Eucharist, you are incorporated into Christ’s body, not the other way around. Who should be doing a favor for whom?

*He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’" (Matthew 13:24-30)*Be careful whom you ask to do you the personal favor of just going to Hell.

-Tim-

 

[svid]

My lapel button says, PAPIST.

Not KINDA PAPIST.

Sorry, sin of pride, there.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

How is anyone staying in the Church addding one day to your time in purgatory and how is anyone leaving the Church subtracting one day from your time in purgatory? The Church is Christ’s body, not yours. When you recieve the Eucharist, you are incorporated into Christ’s body, not the other way around. Who should be doing a favor for whom?

He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’" (Matthew 13:24-30)Be careful whom you ask to do you the personal favor of just going to Hell.

-Tim-

Right on! The Catholic Church still calls them Catholic…who the heck are you people to get on your high horses and decide who is a Catholic and who isn’t?

 

[Pondero]

I don’t decide who is Catholic and who isn’t, the Church does, as it has authority from Christ to do so. Those who pretend to be Catholic and do not believe all that the Church teaches are being dishonest. They ought to go to Confession and repent but they don’t see it that way. They remain in the church. That is why they should leave the Church until they make a decision to return. Do not pretend: as doing so leads others astray.

If you read Church history of the first five centuries you will find that those who thought Christ merely an inspired man ( Arians) or those who thought that God was poured into a human shell The Nestorian heresy: were roundly condemned as heretics at councils…

Cafeteria Catholics are heretics, what particular form of heresy they adhere to depends on their individual beliefs. We don’t call people heretics today.I don’t know why it isn’t used by our bishops more often.

There is something though that comes to mind. Those that procure an abortion are automatically ex-communicated, without benefit of being called “heretic”. They have cut themselves off from the Church.
We must distinguish between those people who know they have done wrong,and remain in the Church, and those who are Cafeteria Catholics who “think for themselves” as some say and infer that the Church is wrong and they are right.
I will leave it like that for now.

Timothy, it says somewhere in the New testament, I think it is in James, that we must correct our brother when he does wrong, it doesn’t have to add or detract from my time in Purgatory, nor does it. If we do nothing then we ourselves are in danger of going to Hell.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I don’t decide who is Catholic and who isn’t, the Church does, as it has authority from Christ to do so. Those who pretend to be Catholic and do not believe all that the Church teaches are being dishonest. They ought to go to Confession and repent but they don’t see it that way. They remain in the church. That is why they should leave the Church until they make a decision to return. Do not pretend: as doing so leads others astray.

If you read Church history of the first five centuries you will find that those who thought Christ merely an inspired man ( Arians) or those who thought that God was poured into a human shell The Nestorian heresy: were roundly condemned as heretics at councils…

Cafeteria Catholics are heretics, what particular form of heresy they adhere to depends on their individual beliefs. We don’t call people heretics today.I don’t know why it isn’t used by our bishops more often.

There is something though that comes to mind. Those that procure an abortion are automatically ex-communicated, without benefit of being called “heretic”. They have cut themselves off from the Church.
We must distinguish between those people who know they have done wrong,and remain in the Church, and those who are Cafeteria Catholics who “think for themselves” as some say and infer that the Church is wrong and they are right.
I will leave it like that for now.

Timothy, it says somewhere in the New testament, I think it is in James, that we must correct our brother when he does wrong, it doesn’t have to add or detract from my time in Purgatory, nor does it. If we do nothing then we ourselves are in danger of going to Hell.

The Church continues to call even those Catholics who have left the Church Catholics. She continues to call even the excommunicated Catholics. Once someone has been baptized into the Catholic Church, the Church considers them to be Catholics for the rest of their lives. Why don’t you?

 

[guanophore]

Right on! The Catholic Church still calls them Catholic…who the heck are you people to get on your high horses and decide who is a Catholic and who isn’t?

No one said they weren’t Catholic. Iowa Mike gave some very apt modifiers that can, and should, be used to describe the state of such Catholics. A Catholic who is not in good standing can be modified by one of those other categories. Such a Catholic may well be on the road to perdition. Do you honestly think it will help to call onself “Catholic” if one is in a state of mortal sin? According to our blessed Mother, “Catholic” souls are falling into hell like snow flakes because they are not in good standing.

It isn’t a matter of a “high horse”, it is a matter of fact. if a person rejects the teachings of the Church, or practices any of those actions that separate one from the One Faith of the Church, then one endangers one’s own soul. This same standard applies to all Catholics, even those who may be presently in good standing. We can step out of grace any time.

We are all just one beggar telling another beggar where to find the bread. what people in this thread are saying is “there is no bread over there”.

 

[kozlosap]

The Church continues to call even those Catholics who have left the Church Catholics. She continues to call even the excommunicated Catholics. Once someone has been baptized into the Catholic Church, the Church considers them to be Catholics for the rest of their lives. Why don’t you?

Great Post Thoughtfulone!!

Methinks that some posters here have huge logs in their eye - maybe work on your own self before worrying about who should be called “Catholic”.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

No one said they weren’t Catholic. Iowa Mike gave some very apt modifiers that can, and should, be used to describe the state of such Catholics. A Catholic who is not in good standing can be modified by one of those other categories. Such a Catholic may well be on the road to perdition. Do you honestly think it will help to call onself “Catholic” if one is in a state of mortal sin? According to our blessed Mother, “Catholic” souls are falling into hell like snow flakes because they are not in good standing.

It isn’t a matter of a “high horse”, it is a matter of fact. if a person rejects the teachings of the Church, or practices any of those actions that separate one from the One Faith of the Church, then one endangers one’s own soul. This same standard applies to all Catholics, even those who may be presently in good standing. We can step out of grace any time.

We are all just one beggar telling another beggar where to find the bread. what people in this thread are saying is “there is no bread over there”.

Maybe we could have them wear a scarlet “D” for a Dissident Catholic or a scarlet “M” for a Catholic in Mortal Sin.

We are ALL sinners and everyone who has been baptized in the Catholic Church is a CATHOLIC, period, whether or not YOU call them Catholic or they even call *themselves *Catholic.

This is not a club with a hierarchy as much as many of you would like it to be.

The Catholic Church is ONE and UNIVERSAL, and a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic.

 

[guanophore]

Maybe we could have them wear a scarlet "D" for a Dissident Catholic or a scarlet "M" for a Catholic in Mortal Sin.

In point of fact, this is exactly what happens.In the spiritual realm, our departure from Catholic faith is fully visible, and the devil and his minions will glom onto people who are in such states so that their last condition is much worse than the first. Engagement in evil weakens the soul, so that more evil can enter.

And Iowa Mike makes another good point that you shall know the tree by it’s fruits. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, and we can know by observing the fruit in a person’s life where their roots are placed.

We are ALL sinners and everyone who has been baptized in the Catholic Church is a CATHOLIC, period, whether or not YOU call them Catholic or they even call *themselves *Catholic.

This is not a club with a hierarchy as much as many of you would like it to be.

The Catholic Church is ONE and UNIVERSAL, and a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic.

What good does it do anyone to call themselves “Catholic” if they are on the road to hell? There are already plenty of people in hell who called themselves “Catholic” while on earth. A Catholic in mortal sin will find that their affiliation or baptism will not avail them when they face the judgement.

 

[denver_faithful]

If I had to stop calling myself Catholic every time I turned away from one of the Church’s teachings through my sinful actions, I would be a dissident Catholic more often than not.

I think we should concern ourselves more with praying for those who fail to adhere to the Magisterium’s teachings than condemning them as ex-Catholics, cafeteria Catholics, or dissidents.

 

[Rence]

Should seperated, those who abandend the Faith, those who practice ONLY what they agree with…

Should they continie to call themselves “Catholic?” To identify themselves with the CC?

Why or Why not?

The Church itself wants them to continue to call themselves Catholic and considering the Catholic Church teaches that the Sacrament of Baptism leaves an indelible mark on a person’s soul that cannot be removed ever and always, then that person, whether they consider themselves Catholic or not, is Catholic according to the Church…and it’s their rules, so… yeah, they hsould continue to call themselves Catholic and identify themselves with the CC, because it’s the Truth according to the Church itself.

If they haven’t found another religion that calls to them, and if they continue to call themselves Catholic, not only are they being honest, but there is hope that they will someday become in communion with the Church again.

IMOHO, it’s better for them to follow what they believe so that they can come to follow more and more along their journey of learning and understanding about the Church, rather than be pushed away from the Church by those who pressure them to follow and believe everything right here and now so that they just throw in the towel and be done with it. Just moho

 

[PennyinCanada]

this is tearing the heck out of my heart. i’m dealing with it in my own family and it is putting distance between me and them.

i’m trying to surround myself with as many true catholics as possilbe. i have changed my ways but the family doesn’t want to accept that. constant comments like – in the old days you wouldn’t have …

i never want to go back to what i was. not that i’m anything great but at least i’m being as true as i possibly can. praying to get even better and for my family and departed souls. spending more time here to learn and discuss.

if you are not in full harmony with the Church then you should not call yourself so. people call themselves catholic but support abortion??? come on!!!

I understand the pain that this causes you. They can fool themselves but God is not fooled.

I encourage you to find Catholics who are living their faith and spend time with them. It will be like a refreshing drink of cool water. If there are any Catholic home schoolers in your area, they are a great bunch to hang around with. Often they will organize events together, like a Christmas concert and such, all year round. When a family lives Humane Vitae, there is a joy and grace there that other families never know. They are an oasis in a desert. God bless.

 

[Rence]

I don’t decide who is Catholic and who isn’t, the Church does, as it has authority from Christ to do so.

That’s correct. The Church teaches that once baptized Catholic, a person is Catholic always and forever. That’s a Church teaching.

Those who pretend to be Catholic and do not believe all that the Church teaches are being dishonest.

Actually, they’re telling the truth according to the Church’s own teachings…

They ought to go to Confession and repent but they don’t see it that way. They remain in the church. That is why they should leave the Church until they make a decision to return. Do not pretend: as doing so leads others astray.

They should stay and continue growing in their journey of life.

If you read Church history of the first five centuries you will find that those who thought Christ merely an inspired man ( Arians) or those who thought that God was poured into a human shell The Nestorian heresy: were roundly condemned as heretics at councils…

Cafeteria Catholics are heretics, what particular form of heresy they adhere to depends on their individual beliefs. We don’t call people heretics today.I don’t know why it isn’t used by our bishops more often.

Because like in the first five centuries, treating people that way will push others away from the Church. Those first five centuries of inquisions and forcing of Catholic law only led people to practice other religions, or just be heretics, underground. You can’t force people to be Catholic, and when you try to you lead not only that person away from Christ, but onlookers as well. No one likes to see others hurt just because they don’t agree with a religion. It makes that religion look bad. The only difference between then and now is, there are other religions for people to turn to now, whereas there was no freedom of religion in the first five centuries. Governments incorporated Catholic law to their own laws, and tortured and killed people in the name of that religion. Because the Church has no real power anymore (other than the power individual people give it) and no way to enforce their laws, and governments no longer enforce those laws, calling people heretics and condemning them will just lead them to another religion that they are free to follow now. It is better to lead them back than to push them away.

There is something though that comes to mind. Those that procure an abortion are automatically ex-communicated, without benefit of being called “heretic”. They have cut themselves off from the Church.

Excommunication does not mean that someone is not Catholic anymore. It means that they can no longer receive Communion until they have reconciled with the Church. They are still Catholic, and are expected to fulful their other Catholic responsibilities, such as attending Mass. And those Catholics in contact with them are not supposed to treat them as if they are “untouchables” or “disfellowship” them, they rather, are supposed to help them on their journey BACK to the Church and BACK to being in communion with the Church. But it’s false to say that someone excommunicated is no longer Catholic.

We must distinguish between those people who know they have done wrong,and remain in the Church, and those who are Cafeteria Catholics who “think for themselves” as some say and infer that the Church is wrong and they are right.

We distinquish ourselves from another by our actions and words and how we behave in life. We are an example of what we stand for. A traditional Catholic can distinquish him or herself from a “free thinking Cafeteria Catholic” by how they behave in life, and how they treat others, including those Cafe Catholics.

Also, keep in mind that being a Cafe Catholic goes both ways. If you’re disagreeing with a teaching of the Church (i.e. that “heretics” shouldn’t call themselves Catholics, when in fact the Church teaches that they are Catholics) then that’s another plate in the cafeteria…just saying

Timothy, it says somewhere in the New testament, I think it is in James, that we must correct our brother when he does wrong, it doesn’t have to add or detract from my time in Purgatory, nor does it. If we do nothing then we ourselves are in danger of going to Hell.

You definitely should take advantage of teaching opportunities, that’s for sure. But Jesus also says that if a teaching is rejected, to shake the dust from that home or city from your feet and move on to the next town to continue teaching. That means, teach to those who will listen, but you can’t force those who don’t want to listen…