From a Moral standpoint

[guanophore]

If I had to stop calling myself Catholic every time I turned away from one of the Church's teachings through my sinful actions, I would be a dissident Catholic more often than not.

I don’t think so. Falling into sin (which we all have done) is not the same as being “dissident”. To be a dissident Catholic, you would have to claim and maintain that what you fell into was not really sin.

I think we should concern ourselves more with praying for those who fail to adhere to the Magisterium’s teachings than condemning them as ex-Catholics, cafeteria Catholics, or dissidents.

I agree.

I only get on people here at CAF about their modifiers because it can cause a public scandal for someone to call themselves “Catholic” in their profile but adhere to non-Catholic theologies. What people dissent about in their private relationship with God is between them, and their Maker.

 

[Pondero]

I never said that Cafeteria Catholics were not Catholic anymore. Once baptized you are always Catholic.
I will leave it that way and not answer other points raised as most of the criticism of my posts as been on the above point.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

The Church itself wants them to continue to call themselves Catholic and considering the Catholic Church teaches that the Sacrament of Baptism leaves an indelible mark on a person’s soul that cannot be removed ever and always, then that person, whether they consider themselves Catholic or not, is Catholic according to the Church…and it’s their rules, so… yeah, they hsould continue to call themselves Catholic and identify themselves with the CC, because it’s the Truth according to the Church itself.

If they haven’t found another religion that calls to them, and if they continue to call themselves Catholic, not only are they being honest, but there is hope that they will someday become in communion with the Church again.

IMOHO, it’s better for them to follow what they believe so that they can come to follow more and more along their journey of learning and understanding about the Church, rather than be pushed away from the Church by those who pressure them to follow and believe everything right here and now so that they just throw in the towel and be done with it. Just moho

Ephesians 2:8-10 (New International Version, ©2010)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

There is a reason why the Church calls us ALL catholics who were baptized in the Church.

Everything else is between the individual, their priest (who stands in the place of Christ) and God. It is not the job of the “good” Catholics to judge a person’s Catholic worthiness and slap a label on them. If you don’t like it, then get in line at the cafeteria because this is Church teaching.

 

[PJM]

=Iowa Mike;7536571]No, they might call themselves ex-Catholics, dissident-Catholics, rebellious-Catholics, former-Catholics, cafeteria-Catholics, heretics etc. When a person identifies themselves as a Catholic it suggests to those that hear or read that claim that the person is a member of the faith…in good standing… They are not. When a person refuses one doctrine of the faith or another they put themselves outside the Church. All that must be believed was pronounced in the Vatican I Council…Chapter 3, On Faith, paragraph 8. It says:

.

Only God can judge a persons soul but we on earth can judge a person by his actions. So they can play word games, start groups, make all kinds of silly claims but if they don’t accept the teachings of the Church…they outside the Church.

God Bless,

Mike, you and I are much in agreement on this. I’m not so concerened about what they call themselves; as I am the scandal they inflict on Christ CC.

God Bless,
Pat

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Mike, you and I are much in agreement on this. I’m not so concerened about what they call themselves; as I am the scandal they inflict on Christ CC.

God Bless,
Pat

Iowa Mike

You hit the nail on the head. The scandal created by people who pass themselves off as Catholic when in fact they reject one or more of the faith’s doctrines poison the well. If anyone attempts to correct them (take the case of pro-abort people) they are instantly painted as ignorant or anti-women, or religious nuts etc. And by claiming to be Catholic they are the ones who mis-lead poorly formed Catholics into error and imperil their souls.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[PJM]

=Rence;7538073]The Church itself wants them to continue to call themselves Catholic and considering the Catholic Church teaches that the Sacrament of Baptism leaves an indelible mark on a person’s soul that cannot be removed ever and always, then that person, whether they consider themselves Catholic or not, is Catholic according to the Church…and it’s their rules, so… yeah, they hsould continue to call themselves Catholic and identify themselves with the CC, because it’s the Truth according to the Church itself.

If they haven’t found another religion that calls to them, and if they continue to call themselves Catholic, not only are they being honest, but there is hope that they will someday become in communion with the Church again.

IMOHO, it’s better for them to follow what they believe so that they can come to follow more and more along their journey of learning and understanding about the Church, rather than be pushed away from the Church by those who pressure them to follow and believe everything right here and now so that they just throw in the towel and be done with it. Just moho

SORRY, But I disagree with your views.

The scandal they cause themselves As well as Christ Church is very dangerous to other souls. Faith is a Gift from God that requires cooperation, that it would seem is not there.

The Eary Fathers seemed to hold a similar view:

**Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: **For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [CONFIRMED AS A CATHOLIC -your decision!] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [HAD THE BIBLE PROPERLY, FULLY AND TRUTHFULLY EXPLAINED AT MASS] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

We do need to continue in earnest prayer for them!

Pat

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Ephesians 2:8-10 (New International Version, ©2010)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

There is a reason why the Church calls us ALL catholics who were baptized in the Church.

Everything else is between the individual, their priest (who stands in the place of Christ) and God. It is not the job of the “good” Catholics to judge a person’s Catholic worthiness and slap a label on them. If you don’t like it, then get in line at the cafeteria because this is Church teaching.

If you are suggesting that one is saved by faith alone, that simply is not a Catholic belief. I’m not sure I read you right.

The Epistle of Saint James 2:24

[24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

With respect to Church teaching, please site your sources because I am not familiar
with this teaching.

Labeling those that dissent from Catholic doctrine is commonly used. When Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz excommunicated the 10 organizations in the diocese of Lincoln Catholic World News reported the following:

Catholic World News reported on December 7, 2006:

The Vatican has confirmed an American bishop’s decision to excommunicate members of the dissident group Call to Action.

It is time for faithful Catholics to speak up and speak out about people who reject doctrines of the faith and spread scandal by claiming to be in communion with the Church…they absolutely are not.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[PJM]

=Iowa Mike;7539792]If you are suggesting that one is saved by faith alone, that simply is not a Catholic belief. I’m not sure I read you right.

The Epistle of Saint James 2:24

With respect to Church teaching, please site your sources because I am not familiar
with this teaching.

Labeling those that dissent from Catholic doctrine is commonly used. When Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz excommunicated the 10 organizations in the diocese of Lincoln Catholic World News reported the following:

It is time for faithful Catholics to speak up and speak out about people who reject doctrines of the faith and spread scandal by claiming to be in communion with the Church…they absolutely are not.

God Bless,Iowa Mike

VERY THING IN AND WITH CHARITY IS OF GOD

Our Catholic Catechism:

**183 **Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mk 16:16).

1816 The disciple of Christ must not only keep the faith and live on it, but also profess it, confidently bear witness to it, and spread it: “All however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the Cross, amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks.” Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation: “So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
**
Eph. 2: 7-10** that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God – 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

**Heb.6: 10 “**For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

**James 2: 14-26 **[14] What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

***So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. ***[18] But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe – and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. ***You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. ***[25] And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

Now friend, yo know the Catholic Teching on this topic.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Thoughtfulone]

If you are suggesting that one is saved by faith alone, that simply is not a Catholic belief. I’m not sure I read you right.

No I am not suggesting that we are saved by faith alone. I was illustrating that we are not to boast because we think the works we have done are greater than the works of another. We are all called Catholic and we are all sinners and it needs to be left at that. Not one of us is better than the other because just one sin from one person crucifies Jesus Christ. All baptized Catholics are deserving of being called Catholics, as pointed out and practiced by the Church.

I am so sick of people on this site calling other people out because they do not see everything in the same way or because they have not yet reached a point in their faith (and may never reach that point) where they are 100% in agreement with everything the Church teaches.

Have you ever thought of how much of a turn-off it is when other people come here to explore the faith and see some of you ripping into other Catholics for not being “Catholic” enough? So many potential Catholics lost because you people can’t just worry about your own relationships with God and pray for others and show some kindness and understanding to others who are in a different place in their journey of faith and leave the rest up to God.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

VERY THING IN AND WITH CHARITY IS OF GOD

Our Catholic Catechism:

**183 **Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mk 16:16).

1816 The disciple of Christ must not only keep the faith and live on it, but also profess it, confidently bear witness to it, and spread it: “All however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the Cross, amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks.” Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation: “So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
**

Eph. 2: 7-10** that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God – 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

**Heb.6: 10 “**For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

**James 2: 14-26 **[14] What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

***So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. ***[18] But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe – and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. ***You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. ***[25] And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

Now friend, yo know the Catholic Teching on this topic.

God Bless,
Pat

Very wordy my friend but we say the same thing, only I said it succinctly.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

No I am not suggesting that we are saved by faith alone. I was illustrating that we are not to boast because we think the works we have done are greater than the works of another. We are all called Catholic and we are all sinners and it needs to be left at that. Not one of us is better than the other because just one sin from one person crucifies Jesus Christ. All baptized Catholics are deserving of being called Catholics, as pointed out and practiced by the Church.

 

[guanophore]

I was illustrating that we are not to boast because we think the works we have done are greater than the works of another.

You have entirely missed the mark, T-0ne. Catholics who embrace the Teaching of the Church have nothing to “boast” about. If we do this, it is by grace, through faith. Embracing the teachings is an act of faith, not a “good work”.

Refusing to embrace them is an act of disbelief. An attitude of disobedience and unfaithfulness cannot be considered a “work” either. It is more a statement about the condition of one’s heart having fallen from grace.

Now there can be (and are) many “works” that emanate from either position. Those who embrace the Teaching will benefit from the graces that are poured through the Church, and will be able to produce the good works for which they have been created. Those who refuse the Teachings will suffer the lack of grace, and will go the way that all people do who cannot walk by the Spirit. They will fulfill the desires of the flesh, and find themselves falling furhter and further into the bondage of sin.

We are all called Catholic and we are all sinners and it needs to be left at that.

A person calling themselves Catholic does not make them Catholic in faith. As the Apostle wrote 28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. 29 Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart — it is spiritual and not literal. Rom 2:28-29

Any Jew circumcised into the Covenant can call himself a Jew, but clearly the Apostle is telling us that it is only “skin deep” if they fail to embrace the faith by which they have been marked.

In like manner, a Catholic is one who is Catholic in heart, spiritual, and not literal.

Not one of us is better than the other because just one sin from one person crucifies Jesus Christ.

No one is claiming that a faithful Catholic is “better”. Calling oneself Catholic while rejecting the Teachings of The Apostles crucifies Christ afresh.

All baptized Catholics are deserving of being called Catholics, as pointed out and practiced by the Church.

Yes, but just like the Jews that have turned away from the faith, they have lost their Catholicity. They are Catholics literally, but not spiritually.

I am so sick of people on this site calling other people out because they do not see everything in the same way or because they have not yet reached a point in their faith (and may never reach that point) where they are 100% in agreement with everything the Church teaches.

Well, you may need a different forum. That is what we do here. It is the ministry of CAF to give Catholic answers. The Catholic answer is that we are to accept all that the Church proposes for our belief with humility and obedience. Persons who are defiant, rebellious, disobedient or ignorant are confronted about it here. It is not because any of us are “better”, as we were all at some point in the same boat. We are one beggar telling another beggar where to find the bread. It is our obligation to tell people when the bread they are eating is moldy.

Have you ever thought of how much of a turn-off it is when other people come here to explore the faith and see some of you ripping into other Catholics for not being "Catholic" enough?

Yes, I know that the Truth scares some people. But, it is better to have a smaller, more pure Church than to be surrounded by people who are only giving lip service to the faith. It is a poor witness. The Apostles did not refrain from telling the Truth to people for fear of hurting their feelings or running them off. We can see by their letters that they were quite vehement in their correction of the believers, ESPECIALLY those who claimed to be Christian but did not act in accordance with the Teachings.

So many potential Catholics lost because you people can’t just worry about your own relationships with God and pray for others and show some kindness and understanding to others who are in a different place in their journey of faith and leave the rest up to God.

I don’t think anyone is lost by holding fast to the Truth. If they are, it is because they are not ready to accept the Truth.

Besides, you are in error in your accusations here. We do devote ourselves to our relation ship with God, pray for others, and show understanding to others. None of this activities, though, involve failing to give witness to the Truth. It is not “kind” or loving to confirm people in their errors.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

You people are so wrong and it is a very sad thing for the Catholic faith indeed. It takes a very long time (sometimes a lifetime) for many people to come to the point where their faith is strong enough that they can understand and accept all the teachings of the Church. God draws many people to His church through the beauty of Sacraments such as the Eucharist and Reconciliation. These people are attracted to Him and His church by these things, which leads them to more fully explore the faith. When you lambaste people and tell them that they’re not real Catholics because they happen to have difficulty with certain teachings, you are telling people that they are not welcome in Christ’s Church.

Thomas had difficulty with the teaching of the resurrection and was not ejected from the group of Apostles; Peter’s lack of faith led him to deny the Lord 3 times and he became the first pope, and this was AFTER they had both personally seen the miracles of Jesus with their own eyes. God wants us ALL in His church and baptized in His name and sometimes, full understanding and faith comes through the graces of the sacraments much, much later.

Unfortunately, so many people will never even get that far because of the nastiness and infighting and judging of other well-meaning Catholics that they see on this site. You are turning people away from the faith. I hope you can live with that. But it DOES make your little club smaller and more exclusive, which is clearly what you want.

Hopefully for their sake, these people will stick around long enough to see that your personal position is not the position of the Catholic Church, which calls ALL baptized Catholics Catholic for life because of the indelible mark of the sacrament. Now who’s the cafeteria Catholic?

 

[PJM]

=Iowa Mike;7540585]Very wordy my friend but we say the same thing, only I said it succinctly.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

VERY TRUE Mike,

But Ihave found it to be of GREAT value to support my positions with evidence.

Your doing Good Work! Thanks,
Pat

 

[GrandmaRose]

If I were to judge the Roman Catholic faith by the postings on CAF, I’m afraid I would conclude that it is deemed far more important to slavishly follow each of the thousands of rules and customs that have been propogated from core doctrines than it is to follow the commandments and Beatitudes Jesus Himself gave us.

Yes, I know Jesus gave us the Church, and I believe as strongly as anyone here that the Church teaches the truth – however – the emphasis ON THIS FORUM of conformity to arcane and outdated expressions of that truth is laughable at times, worrisome and pathetic at other times.

The reality is (a reality that many of you abhor as evidenced by your continued postings) that the religion that is practiced* by the majority of American Catholics, including consecrated religious AND priests AND Bishops,* is not the rigid, stultifying, pre-1960’s version that you advocate.

A priest dares to tell a married couple to use their own maturity and consciences in how they cooperate with God in the creation of their own family? Wow – find another priest who isn’t an agent of the devil!

A Bishop says that immigration reform, including amnesty, reflects the core of Catholic values? Well, isn’t he just the worst Bishop ever!

A pastor encourages the formation of a ministry to serve its homosexual members, including those who dare live in relationship? Well, let’s just call his Bishop and, failing a positive response, let’s write Rome.

And, OMG, a nun who gives her life in service to women and children living in poverty, dares to show her legs because she doesn’t wear a traditional habit? Off with her head!

I NEVER see on this forum suggestions for actually LIVING the Catholic faith by working with the homeless, feeding the hungry, reaching out to the marginalized, or any other service-oriented activity consistent with Jesus’ mandates for His followers. I do see hundreds of suggestions, however, for applying rules to every minuscule facet of human behavior, particularly sexual behavior.

Were I a non-Catholic visitor to this Forum, I’d have to conclude that it’s absolutely critical to live for the law rather than to walk in Jesus’ footsteps in love, and I thank God that this is not the reality of the actual practice of the Catholic faith.

You who are so fond of quoting Church law need to read the truth contained in those laws. A wise person who participated on this Forum (until he was banned for protesting the mishandling of sexual abuse cases) said once that some Catholics practice their faith in spite of Church law. In my opinion, these are whom you are calling “cafeteria Catholics.”

They remain in parishes because they love Jesus in the Eucharist, because they find opportunities to love and serve others and, despite your small-minded opinions, they ARE Catholic. And guess what – they are also the majority of Catholics. The Catholic communities in America have moved on from the post-reformation Catholic culture of the 1950’s reflected on CAF.

Love and service are the verbs Jesus spoke by His life. In my opinion, we who are His followers (or claim to be) misinterpret His language by relying on the emphasis of “law” over those two words.

 

[Denise1957]

Grandma Rose,

I can understand that it might be upsetting when some folks here go over-the-top in judging others. But I’ve seen, too, that there are many kind and compassionate Catholics here on CAF. For those of us who stive to follow all the teachings of the Church (and it’s not such a great number, or all that difficult, really) and stay in a state of grace, it can be a daunting thing to see others who believe that dissent is a normal thing. Even if a majority of Catholics dissent from one or more teachings of the Church, it still does not change those teachings.

The challenge lies in trying to be charitable toward those who dissent - I’m still working on that one myself!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

VERY TRUE Mike,

But Ihave found it to be of GREAT value to support my positions with evidence.

Your doing Good Work! Thanks,
Pat

I greatly appreciate that because too many can’t.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[runwaymodel]

We’re all Catholics but we’re still human. We will agree and disagree on a lot of things. Catholics are all very passionate and share love for the Lord. I focus on the good not the bad. God bless us all. :harp:

 

[Thoughtfulone]

If I were to judge the Roman Catholic faith by the postings on CAF, I’m afraid I would conclude that it is deemed far more important to slavishly follow each of the thousands of rules and customs that have been propogated from core doctrines than it is to follow the commandments and Beatitudes Jesus Himself gave us.

Yes, I know Jesus gave us the Church, and I believe as strongly as anyone here that the Church teaches the truth – however – the emphasis ON THIS FORUM of conformity to arcane and outdated expressions of that truth is laughable at times, worrisome and pathetic at other times.

The reality is (a reality that many of you abhor as evidenced by your continued postings) that the religion that is practiced* by the majority of American Catholics, including consecrated religious AND priests AND Bishops,* is not the rigid, stultifying, pre-1960’s version that you advocate.

A priest dares to tell a married couple to use their own maturity and consciences in how they cooperate with God in the creation of their own family? Wow – find another priest who isn’t an agent of the devil!

A Bishop says that immigration reform, including amnesty, reflects the core of Catholic values? Well, isn’t he just the worst Bishop ever!

A pastor encourages the formation of a ministry to serve its homosexual members, including those who dare live in relationship? Well, let’s just call his Bishop and, failing a positive response, let’s write Rome.

And, OMG, a nun who gives her life in service to women and children living in poverty, dares to show her legs because she doesn’t wear a traditional habit? Off with her head!

I NEVER see on this forum suggestions for actually LIVING the Catholic faith by working with the homeless, feeding the hungry, reaching out to the marginalized, or any other service-oriented activity consistent with Jesus’ mandates for His followers. I do see hundreds of suggestions, however, for applying rules to every minuscule facet of human behavior, particularly sexual behavior.

Were I a non-Catholic visitor to this Forum, I’d have to conclude that it’s absolutely critical to live for the law rather than to walk in Jesus’ footsteps in love, and I thank God that this is not the reality of the actual practice of the Catholic faith.

You who are so fond of quoting Church law need to read the truth contained in those laws. A wise person who participated on this Forum (until he was banned for protesting the mishandling of sexual abuse cases) said once that some Catholics practice their faith in spite of Church law. In my opinion, these are whom you are calling “cafeteria Catholics.”

They remain in parishes because they love Jesus in the Eucharist, because they find opportunities to love and serve others and, despite your small-minded opinions, they ARE Catholic. And guess what – they are also the majority of Catholics. The Catholic communities in America have moved on from the post-reformation Catholic culture of the 1950’s reflected on CAF.

Love and service are the verbs Jesus spoke by His life. In my opinion, we who are His followers (or claim to be) misinterpret His language by relying on the emphasis of “law” over those two words.

YES!!!

 

[Robert_Burns]

Should seperated, those who abandend the Faith, those who practice ONLY what they agree with…

Should they continie to call themselves “Catholic?” To identify themselves with the CC?

Why or Why not?

What is the Supreme Law of the Church? I think your answer lies there. Jesus came for the Salvation of Souls and if the Church is seeing that “Anyone’s or any Groups” activities or beliefs are rendering it more difficult for the supreme law of the Church to be fulfilled she will act just as she will not act if the Supreme law of the church is being served by inaction.

I think it is the Domain of the Magisterium to make those types of Determinations , not ours.