From Adam?

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Faith1960 said:
Sorry, this link is liable to get us off topic…please stick to the original topic. I should’ve PM’d you that.
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No problem. I read it. It is just random people’s comments. The first few were wrong. There was one corroborating what I said too.

I hope they taught me correctly in physiology but…

This is a simple answer. There chromosomes are there from conception and determine gender. Visually they don’t form make sex organs until later in development.

wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_all_embryos_start_out_female
 
Todd977 said:
Reading through paragraph 371 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the fashioning of Eve is mentioned, I get the impression that her being fashioned out of Adam’s rib is merely a literary devise used to convey the fact of Adam and Eve “sharing the same humanity” or, in other words, that Adam and Eve were the same species.
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How do you mean a literary device? I thought it meant she was literally formed from Adam, which I’m having a hard time believing.
 
Faith1960 said:
wiki.answers.com/Q/Witch_came_first_of_people_a_male_or_female#slide=1

Another scientific (although they did misspell “which”) site that says, from a scientific POV, males and females evolved at the same time. 😦
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I don’t think this is a scientific site.

That said, yes if you believe evolutionary theory then humans came from some previous life form.

In Catholicism bottom line is you need to believe God created Adam and Eve special.

The how is inconsequential.
 
Jon_S said:
I don’t think this is a scientific site.

That said, yes if you believe evolutionary theory then humans came from some previous life form.

In Catholicism bottom line is you need to believe God created Adam and Eve special.

The how is inconsequential.
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But what about the CCC that said Eve was “fashioned” from Adam’s rib or whatever it said? Aren’t we required to believe man came first and that Eve was somehow created from Adam’s rib, side, DNA or something?
 
Faith1960 said:
But what about the CCC that said Eve was “fashioned” from Adam’s rib or whatever it said? Aren’t we required to believe man came first and that Eve was somehow created from Adam’s rib, side, DNAOr something?
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No,

Think about what I said.

If the first bipedal hominids were simply animals. Who cares who came first. They weren’t human as the church defines it.

Then god gave them souls. Two of them. Adam and then Eve.

The rib can be viewed in figurative senses.

You don’t need to stress here. The Catholic Church is not the fundamentalist who take genesis literally.
 
Jon_S said:
No,

Think about what I said.

If the first bipedal hominids were simply animals. Who cares who came first. They weren’t human as the church defines it.

Then god gave them souls. Two of them. Adam and then Eve.

The rib can be viewed in figurative senses.

You don’t need to stress here. The Catholic Church is not the fundamentalist who take genesis literally.
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Does the CCC use figurative language?

Btw, off topic, but congrats on becoming Catholic.
 
Jon_S said:
Thank you!

No the CCC is relatively straight forward.
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That’s what I thought…so how can we say Eve wasn’t formed from Adams rib when it says she was in the CCC? And thanks for your patience. I’m a cradle Catholic who’d left the Church in my 20’s, was away for 24 years and returned about 8 years ago. I have a lot to learn.
 
Faith1960 said:
That’s what I thought…so how can we say eve wasn’t formed from Adams rib when it says she was in the CCC? And thanks for your patience. I’m a cradle Catholic who’d left the Church in my 20’s, was away for 24 years and returned about 8 years ago. I have a lot to learn.
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I don’t see a problem with the catechism quoting the figurative language of the Bible. I mean it’s not like the catechism says it is literal. It just quotes the text.

371 God created man and woman together and willed each for the other. The Word of God gives us to understand this through various features of the sacred text. "It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him."242 None of the animals can be man’s partner.243 The woman God “fashions” from the man’s rib and brings to him elicits on the man’s part a cry of wonder, an exclamation of love and communion: "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."244 Man discovers woman as another “I”, sharing the same humanity.

I think that last line is key. It shows the purpose of the figurative language.

This Catholic Answers tract might help: catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution
Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that “the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.
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Jon_S said:
I don’t see a problem with the catechism quoting the figurative language of the Bible. I mean it’s not like the catechism says it is literal. It just quotes the text.

371 God created man and woman together and willed each for the other. The Word of God gives us to understand this through various features of the sacred text. "It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him."242 None of the animals can be man’s partner.243 The woman God “fashions” from the man’s rib and brings to him elicits on the man’s part a cry of wonder, an exclamation of love and communion: "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."244 Man discovers woman as another “I”, sharing the same humanity.

I think that last line is key. It shows the purpose of the figurative language.

This Catholic Answers tract might help: catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution
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I don’t think I understand the last sentence. I also find it interesting that the CCC didn’t say the same as Genesis, but says that God created man and woman together, making it sound as if they were created at the same time.
 
Faith1960 said:
I don’t think I understand the last sentence. I also find it interesting that the CCC didn’t say the same as Genesis, but says that God created man and woman together, making it sound as if they were created at the same time.
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The figure if the rib is that Eve shares the same humanity as Adam. She is unlike the animals as Adam is. She is created in Gods image as Adam is.
 
Faith1960 said:
I don’t think I understand the last sentence. I also find it interesting that the CCC didn’t say the same as Genesis, but says that God created man and woman together, making it sound as if they were created at the same time.
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Did you see post #4? What did you think of that?
 
Does it sound reasonable? I guess going along with the narrative of talking serpents, giants having sex with human’s, God parting the Red Sea, the Supernatural birth of God through BVM, healing the dead, walking on water, fire and brimstone, Noah building an Ark of dry land, Daniel coming out of the Lions dens and Furnace, feeding the multitude and finally Jesus-Raised from the Dead? Along with over 150 miracles and prophecies fulfilled.

Yes I would say its in line with reason. 🙂
 
GaryTaylor said:
Does it sound reasonable? I guess going along with the narrative of talking serpents, giants having sex with human’s, God parting the Red Sea, the Supernatural birth of God through BVM, healing the dead, walking on water, fire and brimstone, Noah building an Ark of dry land, Daniel coming out of the Lions dens and Furnace, feeding the multitude and finally Jesus-Raised from the Dead? Along with over 150 miracles and prophecies fulfilled.

Yes I would say its in line with reason. 🙂
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This is a good point. When I saw the movie Noah it really helped me take God out of the box of naturalism I put him in.

I still believe he works through natural processes in general but yes he is a miraculous God. The fact that we are here hurling perfectly through space is a miracle! I am trying to open myself up more in this area.
 
dmar198 said:
Did you see post #4? What did you think of that?
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I read it. Just not sure if I believe that or not. I’m looking for something, anything that says man developed first. :o

Most things I’ve read said either woman came first or they developed simultaneously.
 
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