From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

[TwoNames]

Hello all!

May God bless you all who read this.

Please to not consider this thread as a slander. Let me first tell you that when talking with people, I was always fast at defending the Church (which is 100% correct in all Her teachings and is the Church started by Jesus Christ and is the only true Church). I am proud to defend God’s only True Church - The Catholic Church, but defending the Church has become very, very hard in the last few years.

Note that here I am not talking about defending directly the teachings of the Church but instead, here I am talking about the leadership, bishops and cardinals who say and do what I do not defend, because I am starting to run out of ways to reconcile many statements of the top leadership in the Church, with the true teachings of the Church which I take from my Baltimore Cathecism (eventhough my first language is not English).

Lately I’ve been listening to the following speeches (I will post only titles of the speeches).

“Fatima foretold ‘diabolical forces’ that would enter Church in our time: Cardinal Burke”
“The anti-Church has come. But, don’t be afraid: Fr. Linus Clovis”
“Real Catholic family life is the road out of apostasy: Bishop Schneider”
…

If I would hear a lay person say statements that are said in those talks, I would not be too scared, but these are bishops ( and Fr. Linus is not a bishop) making the statements. Let’s not forget the 4 Cardinals of Dubia. I think all four of them also call for the consecration of Russia.

I am sure that many understand my concerns and I can not go in much details for those that don’t. As maybe some of you know, I have a bad scrupulosity and even thinking this way about the top leadership of the Church feels very sinful for me.

The questions I have for you is the following:

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?

Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?

To conclude my message, I would like to say that this is not written as an impulse. I was sure that a thread like this already exists (it may, but I don’t see it). For everyone, especially new Catholics or Catholics who are struggling with their faith. PLEASE do not be scandalized by my message. The Church was, is and always will be the Church of Christ and it will never be forsaken by God.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

May God bless His Holy Church, may Holy Spirit lead Pope Francis and all the Bishops!
May God bless us all!

 

[Gertabelle]

OK. First, take a deep breath. Seriously, take a deep breath and hold it for a moment.

…

Now let it out slowly like through a straw.

…

And repeat.

…

…

OK. So here’s my response to all this: How does this affect you personally?
Are you legally divorced and have now remarried outside the Church?
Has someone in that situation asked for your advice?
Do you think your pastor is “diabolical”?
To whom are you defending the Catholic Church?
Are non-Catholics asking your opinions on Fatima?
Are non-Catholics asking you about proper disposition to receive Holy Communion?
Are non-Catholics asking you if Russia has been properly consecrated?

You are not going crazy, AND there is no crisis in the Church.

There are sinners in the Church. Just as there have always been since the day of the Resurrection. And the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.

Perhaps you should stick with the Catechism for your reading material and stay away from all that “end times” nonsense. Most likely, every person on this forum will face their personal judgment loooooonnnnngggg before the end of time.

Now go take a walk and enjoy the trees and the sunshine and the fresh air.
Go see a movie – I highly recommend “Spiderman: Homecoming.”
Go to a baseball game with your family.
Have a poker/game night with your friends.

Stop worrying about things over which you have no control. God’s got this.

 

[Joey97]

Greetings!

As one scruple to another scruple, the best advice I can say is to let it go.

To be honest, I am not seeing exactly what the problem here is. Do you disagree with some things Pope Francis and the Cardinals say? If so, do you mind specifying exactly what you disagree with?

As for Pope Francis and Islam, we should seek to provide dialogue between denominations and faith. After all, God created them and died for them as well. And personally, I think loving as Jesus did is the best way to convert someone. I know Pope Saint JPII kissed the Koran, which drew some firestorm, and whether you agree with the method or not, we should be open to accepting our brothers and sisters into the Church!

Rest Easy!

 

[reggieM]

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?

It’s been about the same for a long while. The Church leaders you cite are talking about a process that has been in place.

Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?

I can’t really judge that depending on your inner state and how you are dealing with anger, but a good and safe way to proceed is to cut off the source of the anger and focus on building peace of soul. We have been given the greatest treasure on earth - the doctrines of the faith and the Holy Sacraments. With those, we find happiness. You can’t control what is happening in the Church or the world, except to pray and to continue to become a better follower of Jesus.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

There’s nothing wrong in confessing matters that trouble you and your confessor will guide your development. Over time, you’ll be able to deal with the crisis in the Church more peacefully. We can pray for the conversion of those who have lost their way.

 

[Operalan]

I have to say, I have some of the same concerns as the O.P. It is not a “new thing” that the Church is going through struggles. However, I do think that the struggles are being intensified by the availability and attention to the problems as provided by the internet. The problems are more in the open…perhaps this is a good thing…perhaps it is bad. But when you hear about the sex scandal involving some not all that removed from the Vatican, and questionable, non-traditional statements by many in the Church (including Bishops and Priests), it can give one great pause. I don’t agree that we should just say, “Well, it doesn’t involve me–I should ignore it”. I don’t believe that the Lord would want us to turn a blind eye to all of this. I think we should question…discern how we are got to this point…and pray that the Lord will guide the leadership to indeed follow the historic teachings of the Church as well as act in love and by the grace that has been given to each of us. I do think that the Pope could do much more to calm the waters. I honestly DON’T see why he can’t call the Dubia Cardinals (obviously, minus the recently deceased Cardinal–may his soul Rest In Peace) and have a private session to answer their questions…to clarify. Despite what many say, there IS clarity needed. It wouldn’t be that hard to give. Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI seems to be very concerned about the Church at this time as well, judging by his recent comments. If he’s concerned, I can see why the OP would be as well…I sure am.

 

[JimG]

When waves break over the barque of Peter.
You need only to remain faithful to Church teaching, which it appears you are doing.

 

[Gertabelle]

I don’t agree that we should just say, “Well, it doesn’t involve me–I should ignore it”. I don’t believe that the Lord would want us to turn a blind eye to all of this. I think we should question…discern how we are got to this point…and pray that the Lord will guide the leadership to indeed follow the historic teachings of the Church as well as act in love and by the grace that has been given to each of us.

Actually, I do ignore most of it. I have zero authority in these matters and zero influence.
I am not going to write letters to my archbishop.
I am not going to write a letter to the Pope.
I am not going to protest outside the cathedral.
I cannot make the Pope reply to the dubia.
I cannot appoint bishops or cardinals.
I cannot “join” the Magisterium and institute changes in the Church according to my wisdom.

YES, we should pray!
Yes, we must act in love.
And yes, we must act by the grace God has given us.

But endless chatter about how Pope Francis could be doing his job better is pointless and arrogant. Pope Francis is the only man in the Chair of Peter. And the rest of us should stop thinking that we are more Catholic than the Pope.

 

[Evangelical_chr]

Yes the world view in the Evangelical Johnathon cahn. Utube.

Ahab and Jessi bal. - the paradigm

Bill and Hillery clinton- barok oboma. The anti Christ spirit is alive and well in america.

Father knows best has died with leaving it to beaver

Gbu

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Pope is gonna Pope, bishops are gonna bishop.
These things are above my pea brain.
“God grant me the serenity to accept what I can’t change”, namely, all of their actions and controversies.

I pray, I go to church, I think about how I can help my neighbor today.
If I am worried about something going on in the world, like North Korea, I pray extra to Our Lady of Fatima, and maybe I do some penance or something.
I let the “management” take care of itself. I pray for them sometimes too.

When I read stuff like “The Story of a Soul” I don’t see St. Therese getting overly concerned with what the Pope or Bishops might be doing or saying at any given moment, and it worked out okay for her.
I don’t think the children at Fatima were too aware of what the Pope was up to either, or St. Bernadette at Lourdes, or many others.

 

[jaimeleglise]

These matters bother me, too. Take it to prayer. Offer it up.

 

[reggieM]

If you like to read and research - there are a number of Catholic books that explain the crisis of the Church we’re going through now. It might help to realize that this has been a struggle for a while - and also what you can do about it. Aside from prayer, give support to good Catholic causes (like CA and others) to build up the faith.

 

[St_Francis]

Certain things cause me to start thinking in bad ways: fretting, fear, anger, etc.

What I try to remember to do is to *pray. *Otherwise I just fill myself with fretfulness, fear, and/or anger, which is totally bad for me.

So just remember to pray.

We should all be praying for priests (including priests who are bishops, cardinal, popes) anyway. They face the most serious temptations, and they are our guides.

Keep them I pray Thee, dearest Lord,
Keep them, for they are Thine;
Thy priests whose lives burn out before Thy consecrated shrine.
Keep them for they are in the world though from the world apart;
When earthly pleasures tempt, allure— shelter them in Thy Heart.
Keep them, and comfort them in hours of loneliness and pain,
When all their life of sacrifice for souls seems but in vain.
Keep them, and remember, O Lord, they have no one but Thee.
Yet they have only human hearts, with human frailty.
Keep them as spotless as the Host, that daily they caress.
Their every thought and word and deed,
deign, dearest Lord, to bless. Amen. ~ Anonymous

 

[Operalan]

Actually, I do ignore most of it. I have zero authority in these matters and zero influence.
I am not going to write letters to my archbishop.
I am not going to write a letter to the Pope.
I am not going to protest outside the cathedral.
I cannot make the Pope reply to the dubia.
I cannot appoint bishops or cardinals.
I cannot “join” the Magisterium and institute changes in the Church according to my wisdom.

YES, we should pray!
Yes, we must act in love.
And yes, we must act by the grace God has given us.

But endless chatter about how Pope Francis could be doing his job better is pointless and arrogant. Pope Francis is the only man in the Chair of Peter. And the rest of us should stop thinking that we are more Catholic than the Pope.

“Pointless and arrogant”? It’s certainly not more “pointless and arrogant” to ask questions than it is to tell someone to “Seriously, take a deep breath…Now let it out slowly like through a straw…and repeat”. There is no harm and it is certainly NOT arrogant to ask questions. Were Christ’s disciples arrogant to ask Jesus for clarification when they didn’t understand something. Was Christ uncharitable in his reply? Insulting fellow posters (here and in other threads) is, however, arrogant and pointless—not to mention rude and uncharitable.

 

[Casilda]

“Pointless and arrogant”? It’s certainly not more “pointless and arrogant” to ask questions than it is to tell someone to “Seriously, take a deep breath…Now let it out slowly like through a straw…and repeat”. There is no harm and it is certainly NOT arrogant to ask questions. Were Christ’s disciples arrogant to ask Jesus for clarification when they didn’t understand something. Was Christ uncharitable in his reply? Insulting fellow posters (here and in other threads) is, however, arrogant and pointless—not to mention rude and uncharitable.

I agree, seems there is a trend of belittling and insulting posters who ask questions here on CAF. Name calling, labeling people as scrupulous or of having mental/psychiatric problems, ad nauseum…

Very few here are Christlike examples of our Catholic faith.

 

[Gertabelle]

“Pointless and arrogant”? It’s certainly not more “pointless and arrogant” to ask questions than it is to tell someone to “Seriously, take a deep breath…Now let it out slowly like through a straw…and repeat”. There is no harm and it is certainly NOT arrogant to ask questions. Were Christ’s disciples arrogant to ask Jesus for clarification when they didn’t understand something. Was Christ uncharitable in his reply? Insulting fellow posters (here and in other threads) is, however, arrogant and pointless—not to mention rude and uncharitable.

The OP sounded positively panicked in his/her first post here. Reminding someone to slow down and breathe is not against charity. If it bothered you, well, it wasn’t directed towards you and was in no way meant to be unkind or condescending or any of the other negative attributes you seem to be attaching to it.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we should ask our questions of Christ. We can also speak with our pastors.

These actions are quite different from going to a public board and posting how Pope Francis is failing in his God-given vocation.

Assuming that discussing his presumed failures among others who have no power to change anything will actually bring about change – well, that does seem pointless to me.

Assuming that we know better than the parties actually responsible for leading the Church – well yeah, that does seem kinda arrogant. Imagine all the details and relationships and private conversations taking place at the Vatican and among the Magisterium of which we know absolutely nothing! And we do not have any right whatsoever to knowledge of these intimate goings-on.

And speaking of pointless, I think I’ll just out of this thread. I forgot just how combat-like these topics can get, and I certainly have better things to do with my day than endlessly argue about the Pope, or whether or not we should even be arguing about the Pope.

Praying for our Holy Mother Church and her leaders.

Praying for all of us sheep of the flock of Christ.

 

[Operalan]

The OP sounded positively panicked in his/her first post here. Reminding someone to slow down and breathe is not against charity. If it bothered you, well, it wasn’t directed towards you and was in no way meant to be unkind or condescending or any of the other negative attributes you seem to be attaching to it.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we should ask our questions of Christ. We can also speak with our pastors.

These actions are quite different from going to a public board and posting how Pope Francis is failing in his God-given vocation.

Assuming that discussing his presumed failures among others who have no power to change anything will actually bring about change – well, that does seem pointless to me.

Assuming that we know better than the parties actually responsible for leading the Church – well yeah, that does seem kinda arrogant. Imagine all the details and relationships and private conversations taking place at the Vatican and among the Magisterium of which we know absolutely nothing! And we do not have any right whatsoever to knowledge of these intimate goings-on.

And speaking of pointless, I think I’ll just out of this thread. I forgot just how combat-like these topics can get, and I certainly have better things to do with my day than endlessly argue about the Pope, or whether or not we should even be arguing about the Pope.

Praying for our Holy Mother Church and her leaders.

Praying for all of us sheep of the flock of Christ.

Yes, I’ve noticed how much time some people spend here…and that’s fine. I’ve seen silly discussions along this line as people wonder about “thread count” and “post numbers”. But there are certainly more constructive things that people can be doing than being combatitive and condescending as is so often seen in various posts.

There is a difference, as well, in telling someone to relax and being dramatic in their instruction as well as over-emphatic. We ALL have “God-given vocations”. We ALL have responsibility to the Church. Questioning and asking for clarification is not wrong if done in love and charity. I think your “assumptions” concerning one’s thoughts, motives, and questions, could, by your own definition, be considered “arrogant”. As far as being combatitive, please review some of your other posts on other threads.

 

[CatholicRaven]

The response when we see what appears to be wrong or foolish, but have no real influence to discuss it with that person, is to pray for them. “Let go and let God.”

If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we’d have nothing to complain about.

I’d say that also goes for people on CAF.

 

[Operalan]

The response when we see what appears to be wrong or foolish, but have no real influence to discuss it with that person, is to pray for them. “Let go and let God.”

If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we’d have nothing to complain about.

I’d say that also goes for people on CAF.

Absolutely!!! Pray for our Priests and “our religious half”. But don’t be afraid to ask questions in charity, and to ask for clarity. Do we have to assume that EVERYTHING done or said by a Priest (or others) is absolutely correct? We know that might not be necessarily wise. If we misunderstand a teaching, especially a teaching that goes against historical teaching, is it wrong to ask for clarification? After getting the clarification that is in allignment with Church teaching or the Catechism, then, I’m all for “Letting go and letting God”. But, if someone is teaching against the Catechism or is not being clear in what they are teaching, I’m going to have a very hard time with “Letting it Go”–nor would I think that would be something that the Church would teach.

 

[goout]

The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.

We are given gifts, vocations, tasks, etc…that are doable in the sight of God with His grace.

Demanding something (the perfection of others) beyond our scope of competence and influence takes our eyes off what God is asking us to do.

This is the work of the evil one.

 

[Operalan]

The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.

We are given gifts, vocations, tasks, etc…that are doable in the sight of God with His grace.

Demanding something (the perfection of others) beyond our scope of competence and influence takes our eyes off what God is asking us to do.

This is the work of the evil one.

I’m not sure, exactly, what your post is pertaining to–especially in regard to this thread…but certainly, our Lord, in Matthew 5:48, had something to say about perfection.