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goout
Guest
Matthew 5 is (you) be perfect as your Father is perfect.
Not get-hung-up-on-your-neighbors-perfection.
Big BIG difference.
It’s very relevant to the OP.
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Not get-hung-up-on-your-neighbors-perfection.
Big BIG difference.
It’s very relevant to the OP.
O
Operalan
Guest
I was replying from my own experience as it relates to the posts and thread. Was your post only meant for the original post? How would it relate to the person who first replied and the tone of his/her post? From looking at several other posts by that poster, it seems that charity in responses has been an issue in the past.Matthew 5 is (you) be perfect as your Father is perfect.
Not get-hung-up-on-your-neighbors-perfection.
Big BIG difference.
It’s very relevant to the OP.
Pursueing perfection in our own lives, as it relates to Christ’s teachings, sometimes means that we will clash with others (He even told us that would happen)—but that doesn’t mean we should shirk our responsibility. And, if there are those who are behaving in error or against teaching, it is our responsibility to stand up for perfection as it has already been defined.
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goout
Guest
The Church is more durable than the imperfections of Christians.
Chasing after the perfection of others distracts us from what we are actually called to do by God.
That’s why I said:
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
(a paraphrase of “the perfect is the enemy of the good”)
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Operalan
Guest
Its not about and should never be about individuals. It’s about the Church–which is perfect, despite imperfect people in it. And if someone is trying to"change" something that IS perfect, then that person and the Church wouldn’t be perfect. Perfection Is–anything less than that, isn’t.
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goout
Guest
Sorry. I am confused as to what exactly you are addressing. You are saying the OP is trying to change something that is already perfect?
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steve_b
Guest
At any given time, just remember Satan is always sifting. He never gives up while we are on this side of eternity. If everyone around you lost their faith, would you still fight to maintain your faith till the end?
TwoNanes:
Pray for him always.
Reading ahead in the book, Jesus wins
As long as people do things His way and NOT their way, they will be with Him at the end of this life. Problem is, most people insist on doing things their way. Hence Jesus saying, few find the narrow road, while everyone else is on the wide road to perdition
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Operalan
Guest
Quite the opposite. The original poster is concerned about people trying to change the church. And, in my opinion, he should be concerned.
Sorry. I am confused as to what exactly you are addressing. You are saying the OP is trying to change something that is already perfect?
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Operalan
Guest
Amen and Amen!At any given time, just remember Satan is always sifting. He never gives up while we are on this side of eternity. If everyone around you lost their faith, would you still fight to maintain your faith till the end?
Pray for him always.
Reading ahead in the book, Jesus wins
As long as people do things His way and NOT their way, they will be with Him at the end of this life. Problem is, most people insist on doing things their way. Hence Jesus saying, few find the narrow road, while everyone else is on the wide road to perdition
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anon90438963
Guest
It is a bad time. But the Church has been through many bad times, many worse times. It helps to know history: I recommend it! It is shocking to read about some of the truly terrible, heretical, immoral medieval and renaissance popes and clergy. Dante, a faithful Catholic, captured the whole rotten state of the Church heirarchy of his day. As did Catherine of Siena in her Dialogues. When I teach these to today’s students, they are truly shocked and scandalized. In fact, we’ve been in a long period of very holy popes in the 20th-21st century, many of whom are now saints. Whatever one thinks about Pope Francis, this remarkable stretch has been a great gift from God. Somehow, even when terrible popes and rotten heirarchy abounded, the Church survived. In short, as Padre Pio repeated, Pray, Hope, and Don’t Worry! We don’t know what God is doing in His quiet way in the background at the moment. It is not for us to know, and we need to be humble and joyful enough to Trust.
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Operalan
Guest
Completely different times call for different actions–but the Church needs to stay consistent and true to its teaching. And, if the people were more diligent and involved, perhaps those terrible times in history, when Popes and other leaders were not following Church teachings, would not have occurred.
Yes, Hope and Pray–and be watchful as well. A sheep can only follow the shepherd with eyes and ears open.
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Operalan
Guest
And, let’s not forget that more people have seen a Pope in probably the last 40 years than have in the preceding near 2,000 years. And the exposure via print, the internet, television and radio brings extra scrutiny. People are watching and listening. Now is the time for added care—that the message presented be accurate, pure, and consistent.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
The best answer really is prayer. Pray for the church. The church is most definitely in a state of crisis. According to surveys by Pew and NCR, 41% of Catholics fulfill their weekly obligation to attend Mass on Sunday in the US. It is closer to 15% in France. 37% of US Catholics do not know or believe in the True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. Those are most certainly signs of a crisis, at least in Catholic catechisis.
As for the Pope, Our Lord chose him to sit in the seat of Peter. To attempt to understand the objectives of God who has the benefit of eternal wisdom is like trying to understand the boundaries of infinity. We have the hierarchy we have for a divine reason that we cannot know in this lifetime.
So pray for the church and her leaders and keep your own soul in the state of sanctifying grace. That is all that you need to worry about. If you dont understand why the Pope or Cardinals or Bishops react as they do, dont pretend you do or that it is particularly necessary that you do understand.
As for the Pope, Our Lord chose him to sit in the seat of Peter. To attempt to understand the objectives of God who has the benefit of eternal wisdom is like trying to understand the boundaries of infinity. We have the hierarchy we have for a divine reason that we cannot know in this lifetime.
So pray for the church and her leaders and keep your own soul in the state of sanctifying grace. That is all that you need to worry about. If you dont understand why the Pope or Cardinals or Bishops react as they do, dont pretend you do or that it is particularly necessary that you do understand.
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PJM
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awsiukiewicz
Guest
OK. First, take a deep breath. Seriously, take a deep breath and hold it for a moment.
…
Now let it out slowly like through a straw.
…
And repeat.
…
…
OK. So here’s my response to all this: How does this affect you personally?
Are you legally divorced and have now remarried outside the Church?
Has someone in that situation asked for your advice?
Do you think your pastor is “diabolical”?
To whom are you defending the Catholic Church?
Are non-Catholics asking your opinions on Fatima?
Are non-Catholics asking you about proper disposition to receive Holy Communion?
Are non-Catholics asking you if Russia has been properly consecrated?
You are not going crazy, AND there is no crisis in the Church.
There are sinners in the Church. Just as there have always been since the day of the Resurrection. And the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
Perhaps you should stick with the Catechism for your reading material and stay away from all that “end times” nonsense. Most likely, every person on this forum will face their personal judgment loooooonnnnngggg before the end of time.
Now go take a walk and enjoy the trees and the sunshine and the fresh air.
Go see a movie – I highly recommend “Spiderman: Homecoming.”
Go to a baseball game with your family.
Have a poker/game night with your friends.
Stop worrying about things over which you have no control. God’s got this.
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awsiukiewicz
Guest
A
awsiukiewicz
Guest
I Believe you are 'spot on " regarding a crisis in the Church…these are not nebulous ramblings of individuals stating false info. But the concerns of many Catholics. Sure, we were assured the the Holy Roman Catholic Church would survive just as it has for over 2000 years. But deny that we are in crisis and that this is some over reaction and we should take a deep breath seems …well not quite sure hoy to reply to that…one need only watch mainstream news, regardless if the slant…EWTN which I have watched for years a really mainstream truly Catholic network has Priests and learned devout educated Catholics .who know the Catechism by the way, respectively discussing serious concerns about where the leadership of the Church is taking us…the marriage annulment process has been disregarded without the customary consultations without the customary consultation of the appropriate Roman dicasteries…rebuking the Roman Curia in a Cristmas address, whch which effectively vitiates the influence of it’s prefect who has stood firmly against who had stoid firmly against innovations injurious to both the teachings on marriage (read the Catechism) and to the tenets of the Liturgy , crippling the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and shutting down the Melbourne campus of the Jn Paul II Institute…administering Holy Communion to individuals living in adulterous relationships…(Catechism)…and disregarding Cardinals merely requesting an audience with the Holy Father requesting an audience for clarification on mattters the ambiguity self evident…this is not nonesense…The end times is another matter…when I was growing up certain things wete sinful…now wr have the leadership in the Church offering tacit approval for these very things… read…read…listen…study…I’m concerned…and so are many…but there is no doubt that there are two “camps”…those who suggest we are over reacting and spending too much time reading nonsense on the internet…and those who listen…sugesting that someone who genuinely expressed concern and respectively requestested some hope and explanation for things happening un the Church.take a deep breath…go to a movie …and read the Catechism…sounds rather condescending my brother…and I am not anyone who typically views the proverbial glass has half empty…we should keep our eyes open…when less is expected…less will be offered…if everything is o.k. and very little is sinful…where are we headed…I know what “camp” I’m in…not being a negative person I fully expect to be attacked hopefully not angrily about my personal feelings…so enlighten those of us who have genuine concern for what we are witnessing in our leadership (the Sheppards) in the Church…and we are many…Pax tecum
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Jestersage
Guest
Is there a crisis? Yes. But it’s far less than Alexander VI. Catholic church definitely had worse.
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Operalan
Guest
Yes, there have been other major crisis over the centuries. However, the problems now are magnified and spread like wild fire compared to any crisis of centuries past. This makes the problems even more abundant and needing of clear and concise leadership in a more timely manner. The ancient Church did not have to face the internet. Much of what happened was not known by the Uniersal Church until much later. The effect of those problems wasn’t always as wide reaching. Now, things are snowballing and clear and strong voices are not being heard to stop it. And the voices need to be consistent with Catholic teaching…not muddled in nuance.
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awsiukiewicz
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poche
Guest
“The anti-Church has come.”
I remember in the 80s there being talk about how the Freemasons were the anti-Church. At one point Francois Mitterand said that the freemasons were the anti Church and he was proud of his associatn with that organization. Of course his attitude chnged when he got closer to death.
I remember in the 80s there being talk about how the Freemasons were the anti-Church. At one point Francois Mitterand said that the freemasons were the anti Church and he was proud of his associatn with that organization. Of course his attitude chnged when he got closer to death.
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