From Kingdom of Evil to Kingdom of God.

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Sister_Amy said:
I have heard about people who have had their Bibles taken, in customs. But I have never heard of punishment for having Bibles, even a large number of them. I’m sorry I didn’t tell you what you wanted to hear. I try not to say things that I don’t know about. So something that I didn’t say–I don’t see how that could be used against me. 🤷
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I’m willing to give it the benefit of doubt, but when the ‘mistakes’ happen one too often, I was getting suspicious.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I have heard about people who have had their Bibles taken, in customs. But I have never heard of punishment for having Bibles, even a large number of them. I’m sorry I didn’t tell you what you wanted to hear. I try not to say things that I don’t know about. So something that I didn’t say–I don’t see how that could be used against me. 🤷
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BTW, this was exactly what you said to me, in that thread, some weeks ago. So your memory is not so bad after all, eh? 😉
 
Sister_Amy said:
I hope Vickie will accept my apology for calling her a liar.

It has not been my intent on this site ever to lie to anyone despite the fact that I hear a constant refrain from my opponents that I actively engage in deception. I was not trying to lie, simply defending myself.

And I was mistaken. Sorry for my mistake.
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Apology accepted, Amy!

Vickie
 
swariffin said:
Dear Sister,

Where do you think that Iblees came from? Did Iblees exist by itself? Did God created Iblees? if so, why?
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In Catholic school I was taught that, in the moment of their creation, the angels were allowed to choose freely whether to give themselves to God or to reject him. Lucifer (Iblees?), the most beautiful of the angels, became proud and thought to make himself God’s equal. For this he was banished for eternity from God’s presence.

I’ve learned that, according to the Koran, Lucifer’s crime was in refusing to kneel before Adam.

A few months ago, another poster was speculating about this and commented that Jesus, in Scripture, is also called the ‘new’ Adam. As a Christian, it makes sense to me that Satan, being a spirit existing outside of time, might have refused to bow before the Incarnate God, considering himself superior to a God who also lowered Himself to become human. Other angels followed Lucifer and were also expelled from Heaven. I don’t believe in jinns…
 
In Islam, even Iblees identity is not agreed upon. Some said he is a fallen angel, some say he was given the status of an angel, other says he is a jinn.Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas’ud and some other companions of muhammad said he was an angel. In fact, Ibn Abbas said that he was the leader of the Angels.

But since they agree with the Bible, they must be wrong 😉
 
In this thread people have asked questions about Iblees, and I don’t know why because the Qur’an is quite explicitly clear.

swariffin asked: Where do you think that Iblees came from? Did Iblees exist by itself? Did God created Iblees? if so, why?

First of all, of course God created him. God created Iblees, from a smokeless flame. Angels on the other hand were created from light. Men were created from dirt. But Iblees was a jinn–which the Qur’an plainly states to clarify for Christians their misconception about “Lucifer” and the notion of a fallen angel. Iblees was a jinn, a being created from smokeless fire.

Why were jinn created? Why were men created? I put the questions together because the Qur’an answers both the same, when Allah, the exalted says “I have not created the men and jinn except to…” and I beseech you all to look up the answer. Perhaps you didn’t know why men were created either, in which case the Qur’an will tell you that too.

Now about swariffin’s second question–my post was what is called a rhetorical question. If you aren’t familiar with the device I suggest you look it up.

Now Rueben asked a similar question: Yes, this is interesting. Since Iblees is not an angel in the Islamic understanding, I am also curious - whether it exist by itself or created by Allah. And if Allah created an Iblees, I also would like to know why Allah did such a terrible and horrible thing. I mean, why did Allah created evil, if at all he created it.

Of course, as I said above, Allah created it. And how is it a horrible thing? Allah created Hitler, didn’t he? And not all jinn are evil. Just like men, there are some who are evil, and some who are righteous. Christians believe in demons, don’t they? (They should, because demons are mentioned in the Bible as a fact.) Why did God create men, and jinn? In fact, the angels asked God, when he was about to create man, they asked God why would he create something that would cause corruption on the earth. (And clearly, men have done just that.)

Wouldn’t you love to know what the answer was?

So I’ve given you two questions now and told you the answers are in the Qur’an.

First: why did God create the men and the jinn?

Second: Why create something that will cause corruption on the earth?
 
On the creation of evil… Rueben posed an interesting thought… why would God create “evil?”

I want to ask you, how do you believe there is “evil” in the world that God does not have power over?

Where does evil come from, according to you, if it doesn’t stem from God’s creations?
 
Sister_Amy said:
In this thread people have asked questions about Iblees, and I don’t know why because the Qur’an is quite explicitly clear.

swariffin asked: Where do you think that Iblees came from? Did Iblees exist by itself? Did God created Iblees? if so, why?

First of all, of course God created him. God created Iblees, from a smokeless flame. Angels on the other hand were created from light. Men were created from dirt. But Iblees was a jinn–which the Qur’an plainly states to clarify for Christians their misconception about “Lucifer” and the notion of a fallen angel. Iblees was a jinn, a being created from smokeless fire.

Why were jinn created? Why were men created? I put the questions together because the Qur’an answers both the same, when Allah, the exalted says “I have not created the men and jinn except to…” and I beseech you all to look up the answer. Perhaps you didn’t know why men were created either, in which case the Qur’an will tell you that too.

Now about swariffin’s second question–my post was what is called a rhetorical question. If you aren’t familiar with the device I suggest you look it up.

Now Rueben asked a similar question: Yes, this is interesting. Since Iblees is not an angel in the Islamic understanding, I am also curious - whether it exist by itself or created by Allah. And if Allah created an Iblees, I also would like to know why Allah did such a terrible and horrible thing. I mean, why did Allah created evil, if at all he created it.

Of course, as I said above, Allah created it. And how is it a horrible thing? Allah created Hitler, didn’t he? And not all jinn are evil. Just like men, there are some who are evil, and some who are righteous. Christians believe in demons, don’t they? (They should, because demons are mentioned in the Bible as a fact.) Why did God create men, and jinn? In fact, the angels asked God, when he was about to create man, they asked God why would he create something that would cause corruption on the earth. (And clearly, men have done just that.)

Wouldn’t you love to know what the answer was?

So I’ve given you two questions now and told you the answers are in the Qur’an.

First: why did God create the men and the jinn?

Second: Why create something that will cause corruption on the earth?
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This getting better and better! I’d better read a Qur’an someday – it sounds even better than the “Once upon a time…” fairytales I heard as a child!

Jinn… Iblees (related to ewoks?)… Jack and the Beanstalk… Humpty Dumpty… :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
*“Dear God, do You know the greatest grief one of Your creatures can bear? It is the thought that she can never love You enough. ” *- St. Gemma Galgani
 
Sister_Amy said:
On the creation of evil… Rueben posed an interesting thought… why would God create “evil?”

I want to ask you, how do you believe there is “evil” in the world that God does not have power over?

Where does evil come from, according to you, if it doesn’t stem from God’s creations?
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(Ezekiel 28:12-19):
“12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:” 'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. 17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.18 By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. 19 All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.”
 
Sister_Amy said:
In this thread people have asked questions about Iblees, and I don’t know why because the Qur’an is quite explicitly clear.

swariffin asked: Where do you think that Iblees came from? Did Iblees exist by itself? Did God created Iblees? if so, why?

First of all, of course God created him. God created Iblees, from a smokeless flame. Angels on the other hand were created from light. Men were created from dirt. But Iblees was a jinn–which the Qur’an plainly states to clarify for Christians their misconception about “Lucifer” and the notion of a fallen angel. Iblees was a jinn, a being created from smokeless fire.

Why were jinn created? Why were men created? I put the questions together because the Qur’an answers both the same, when Allah, the exalted says “I have not created the men and jinn except to…” and I beseech you all to look up the answer. Perhaps you didn’t know why men were created either, in which case the Qur’an will tell you that too.

Now about swariffin’s second question–my post was what is called a rhetorical question. If you aren’t familiar with the device I suggest you look it up.

Now Rueben asked a similar question: Yes, this is interesting. Since Iblees is not an angel in the Islamic understanding, I am also curious - whether it exist by itself or created by Allah. And if Allah created an Iblees, I also would like to know why Allah did such a terrible and horrible thing. I mean, why did Allah created evil, if at all he created it.

Of course, as I said above, Allah created it. And how is it a horrible thing? Allah created Hitler, didn’t he? And not all jinn are evil. Just like men, there are some who are evil, and some who are righteous. Christians believe in demons, don’t they? (They should, because demons are mentioned in the Bible as a fact.) Why did God create men, and jinn? In fact, the angels asked God, when he was about to create man, they asked God why would he create something that would cause corruption on the earth. (And clearly, men have done just that.)

Wouldn’t you love to know what the answer was?

So I’ve given you two questions now and told you the answers are in the Qur’an.

First: why did God create the men and the jinn?

Second: Why create something that will cause corruption on the earth?
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Dear Sister,

That is why I believe that the Quran does not make sense. God created Iblees, Jinn and human. God created Iblees, Jinn and Human to worship Him. God created Iblees and let Iblees deceives human. Later, God will punish human who fall into the lies of Iblees. My next question is why God created Iblees together with human side-by-side, and will later bring his wrath for those human who fall into the lies of Iblees. Why not just created human only? It seems to me that God is playing just like a scientist experimenting in the lab.

BTW, I don’t believe that Allah created Hitler with all of his sins. Allah created a man, whom later was named Adolf Hitler by his parents. Later, that man by his own freedom, choose to commit evil acts.
 
Sister_Amy said:
So I’ve given you two questions now and told you the answers are in the Qur’an.
First: why did God create the men and the jinn?
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Bible:-
Human beings: Since God created man in his own image as mentioned in the bible, then I believe to enjoy fellowship with God, since I see no word in the bible indicates that Adam was worshiping God prior to the fall:
“God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”" (Genesis 1:28).

Jinn: No Jinn creature in the Bible (we Muslims should ask ourselves why Jinns are not mentioned in the Bible, yet they appear in Quran)! :hmmm:

Quran:-
Human beings: (Quran 51:56) “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.”

Jinn: (Quran 51:56) “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.”
Second: Why create something that will cause corruption on the earth?
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According to the Bible, there suppose to be no corruption on earth, but because (Mr. Adam) sinned :mad: the earth became cursed:
"To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.” (Genesis 3:17).

Now ask yourself this question Sister Amy and fellow Muslims, if you were driving a car and you came across a road junction, one tells you to turn right and enjoy fellowship with God and be children of God, and the other one turn left and be slave/servant of God, honestly which way would you go…
 
GemmaRose said:
This getting better and better! I’d better read a Qur’an someday – it sounds even better than the “Once upon a time…” fairytales I heard as a child!

Jinn… Iblees (related to ewoks?)… Jack and the Beanstalk… Humpty Dumpty… :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Oh come on now, how dare you!!! You left out klingons 😛
 
Sister_Amy said:
So they believe that the devil (who you called Lucifer) was a character named “Iblees” who was a different kind of creature, neither human nor angel, called a jinn.
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AsSalum o Alykum,
Dear Sister I love reading your posts you seem to me to be very guided.

I am not real bright so may not interpret the Quran very well so need your help on the above quote.

From my limited reading i thought some English translations explained like this

It was said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam:” and they bowed down: not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith.

Now from this i assumed in addressing the angels iblis was included.
I thought he was created from the inviable heat or fire.
I thought jinn were of fire and sticky mud (clay)
Man was created from clay.

I thought iblis was the leader of the Jinn who reject faith and some Jinn have listened to the truth and have faith.

could you please offer some Quranic references for what you have
said so i can put myself straight quickly.

May Allah keep you and yours always in His ways as so you submit.
 
dolphinlove said:
Oh come on now, how dare you!!! You left out klingons 😛
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Wow you and the other person have a strange view of Jesus (PBWH)

Many say he is the way to the Father.

Do you think you are acting as he would?

Where are you going?

This is how you like to be treated?

My God commands me when my brother or sister is astray gently remind them of the path.

Please accept these questions i posed to you in good faith as i am for you not against you but i am against your actions here they are not constructive.

In a school yard they would be considered bullying.

Peace be with you and from you.
 
Sister_Amy said:
On the creation of evil… Rueben posed an interesting thought… why would God create “evil?”

I want to ask you, how do you believe there is “evil” in the world that God does not have power over?

Where does evil come from, according to you, if it doesn’t stem from God’s creations?
Click to expand...
Don’t play dumb, Sister Amy. You know darn well that God does not create evil.

Evil came from the Devil/Satan/Lucifer, who brought it into the world when he tempted Adam and Eve to sin.

God has supreme control over everything, but has promised us free will, which we constantly misuse and bring more evil into the world by our sins.

That is why God Himself, God the Son, came down to earth, was born in a human body in the Person of Jesus, which He used to redeem us by allowing Himself to be tortured and crucified. He paid the price we incurred by our sins, and reconciled us to God the Father. After He returned to His Heavenly Throne, He sent us His Holy Spirit to fill us and enlighten us and guide us in His ways.

No one else was needed to come after JESUS THE LORD, and anyone else who came after was either a liar or had been deceived.

If you were so ignorant of your Christian roots, no wonder you went looking around for a fairy tale religion.

If you were not ignorant of Christian teaching, then you are the most pitiable woman on earth.
*“Dear God, do You know the greatest grief one of Your creatures can bear? It is the thought that she can never love You enough. ” *- St. Gemma Galgani
 
Steven_John said:
AsSalum o Alykum,
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Wa alaikum assalaam
Dear Sister I love reading your posts you seem to me to be very guided.
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I am not real bright so may not interpret the Quran very well so need your help on the above quote.
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From my limited reading i thought some English translations explained like this
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It was said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam:” and they bowed down: not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith.
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This is correct. But let me give you a different verse saying something similar. For reference, see 17:61. And then look into the next chapter, and read 18:15. I’ll quote both verses here:

17:61 Behold! We said to the angels: “Bow down unto Adam”: They bowed down except Iblis: He said, “Shall I bow down to one whom Thou didst create from clay?”

18:50 Behold! We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam”: They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!

I bolded the portions which are identical–both verses start the same way. The first however describes the arrogance of Iblis. And the second describes his nature.
Now from this i assumed in addressing the angels iblis was included.
I thought he was created from the inviable heat or fire.
I thought jinn were of fire and sticky mud (clay)
Man was created from clay.
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Iblis was included with the angels, even though he was not an angel. I have heard some people say that he was just very favored and was with the angels in Paradise even though wasn’t one of them.

Iblis was a jinn, and jinn were created from fire. Smokeless fire. See 55:15 (And He created Jinns from fire free of smoke).

Men are created from clay.
I thought iblis was the leader of the Jinn who reject faith and some Jinn have listened to the truth and have faith.
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This is correct.
could you please offer some Quranic references for what you have said so i can put myself straight quickly.
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May Allah keep you and yours always in His ways as so you submit.
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I hope I’ve provided the references you were looking for. May Allah guide you and all of us.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Is it proper in Islam to call Allah as the Father?
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(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
 
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