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benedicter
Guest
This may seem unusual but does anyone know of any married couples that have become nuns and priests - that is stopped living as married couples? Has it happened in the history of the Church?
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Tietjen
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I have not heard of this happening. I have heard of people who have become nuns and monks AFTER their spouse passed away. I’ve even heard of people becoming nuns and monks after an annulment. I have not heard of people becoming nuns or brothers while married however.This may seem unusual but does anyone know of any married couples that have become nuns and priests - that is stopped living as married couples? Has it happened in the history of the Church?
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benedicter
Guest
Yes, it doesn’t seem what God would do does it? After a death, yes that would be possible. Annulment - I suppose. I ask as quite frequently over the last year or so I have had a deep desire (strongest in prayer) to be a Carmelite. Not too much of a problem - I considered it a desolation as it wasn’t possible. I pushed it away but it came back. It didn’t make me anxious, it just seemed to be where I was going, so I dealt with it pragmatically. I have a wonderful marriage and my husband is a faithful Catholic. He also said the other day - if anything happens to you I would like to be a priest. I was thrilled, why I don’t know, but wondered what is God doing here?
It seems like a puzzle to me, or maybe a desolation, or maybe a preparation from God for the future? I have joined the secular Carmelites as that is possible and though I am happy there it doesn’t changed the deeper knowledge and desire. Confusing?
I have also to say that it started when my husband, when visiting another city, dropped into a Carmelite Convent so we could visit, after I pointed it out from the roadside. The moment I stepped in the doorway I had quite a prolonged spiritual experience - like a wonderful homecoming. I was completely overwhelmed I just wanted to stay. I can’t shake it now.
It seems like a puzzle to me, or maybe a desolation, or maybe a preparation from God for the future? I have joined the secular Carmelites as that is possible and though I am happy there it doesn’t changed the deeper knowledge and desire. Confusing?
I have also to say that it started when my husband, when visiting another city, dropped into a Carmelite Convent so we could visit, after I pointed it out from the roadside. The moment I stepped in the doorway I had quite a prolonged spiritual experience - like a wonderful homecoming. I was completely overwhelmed I just wanted to stay. I can’t shake it now.
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Tietjen
Guest
I know what you are talking about. I have been going through the same thing. Going on 3 years ago, my wife decided that she no longer wanted to be married or a mom. So, she went her way and our 3 sons and I tried to make the best of it. Three years later, 2 sons are now in university and the youngest will be starting this fall. Last November, the divorce that my wife filed for was granted. Since her leaving, I have felt called to a monastic life. I don’t believe that I would make a good priest but perhaps a monk. The next step is to petition for an annulment. I still haven’t been able to bring myself to do that yet. Despite being abandoned, I still love my wife. So, as you can imagine, things are very jumbled and confusing at the moment. I still have time, as the last child will not complete university for at least 4 years. I won’t pursue this vocation until they are all finished with school. And of course there is always the possibility that the Church will not grant the annulment. In which case, I will accept that as God’s wish, that I remain single, alone, and not a religious.Yes, it doesn’t seem what God would do does it? After a death, yes that would be possible. Annulment - I suppose. I ask as quite frequently over the last year or so I have had a deep desire (strongest in prayer) to be a Carmelite. Not too much of a problem - I considered it a desolation as it wasn’t possible. I pushed it away but it came back. It didn’t make me anxious, it just seemed to be where I was going, so I dealt with it pragmatically. I have a wonderful marriage and my husband is a faithful Catholic. He also said the other day - if anything happens to you I would like to be a priest. I was thrilled, why I don’t know, but wondered what is God doing here?
It seems like a puzzle to me, or maybe a desolation, or maybe a preparation from God for the future? I have joined the secular Carmelites as that is possible and though I am happy there it doesn’t changed the deeper knowledge and desire. Confusing?
I have also to say that it started when my husband, when visiting another city, dropped into a Carmelite Convent so we could visit, after I pointed it out from the roadside. The moment I stepped in the doorway I had quite a prolonged spiritual experience - like a wonderful homecoming. I was completely overwhelmed I just wanted to stay. I can’t shake it now.
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benedicter
Guest
That is interesting - I’m sorry you have had difficulties. I read a book not long ago - I think it was called ‘The Father and the Son’ - I found it in the library, not too old at all. The father became ordained at 65. In a Benedictine order I think just outside of Philadelphia. He was a widow but still many decisions and uncertainties. In your case though there is a reasonable possibility as you are not with your wife. Find the book it was written from the youngest son’s perspective. Quite lovely really.
I think in my case I can only keep praying about it, or ignore it. As Padre Pio said, sometimes God lets him look at His notebook. So it could be prophetic in which case time will sort itself otherwise God will take care of it another way. No use second guessing God!
I was taken aback by my husband’s response which probably made me pose the first question I posted - though having done so seems to have overcome that in itself - the concept just isn’t something I would act on.
I think in my case I can only keep praying about it, or ignore it. As Padre Pio said, sometimes God lets him look at His notebook. So it could be prophetic in which case time will sort itself otherwise God will take care of it another way. No use second guessing God!
I was taken aback by my husband’s response which probably made me pose the first question I posted - though having done so seems to have overcome that in itself - the concept just isn’t something I would act on.
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Charybdis
Guest
Well, I do have an unusual thing to report. I am 39 yrs. old and all my life I had never run into a priest who had children (meaning that he was married before or something like that) but where I was living for the past 10 years before we moved last year, we knew 3 priests who had been married and have grown children!!
The priest in our own small parish had been married and he divorced and got an annulment. Here’s the interesting thing, his son is now a priest! He even lives very close by and sometimes would come and concelebrate a mass. Very strange experience to see father and son priests at the altar but in a way, very beautiful as well.
Another priest nearby went through the same thing and he also has grown children and then another priest about 45 minutes away was a permanent deacon. His wife died and when that happened, he petitioned to be accepted for the priesthood. It was granted and he then went on to become a priest. He also has grown children.
Fascinating isn’t it?
The priest in our own small parish had been married and he divorced and got an annulment. Here’s the interesting thing, his son is now a priest! He even lives very close by and sometimes would come and concelebrate a mass. Very strange experience to see father and son priests at the altar but in a way, very beautiful as well.
Another priest nearby went through the same thing and he also has grown children and then another priest about 45 minutes away was a permanent deacon. His wife died and when that happened, he petitioned to be accepted for the priesthood. It was granted and he then went on to become a priest. He also has grown children.
Fascinating isn’t it?
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benedicter
Guest
It makes you wonder if God is up to something!
I met one - a widower who visited from Scotland. He was a Diocesan priest there who became ordained after he was widowed. He hhad three grown daughters. interestingly he had been a novice in a Carmelite order in Scotland but had left because of divisions over Vatican II, I believe.
Another I know of became a priest after being widowed but then left to marry!! He is subsequently caught up with his wife in quite liberal expressions in the Church. What a shame.
I met one - a widower who visited from Scotland. He was a Diocesan priest there who became ordained after he was widowed. He hhad three grown daughters. interestingly he had been a novice in a Carmelite order in Scotland but had left because of divisions over Vatican II, I believe.
Another I know of became a priest after being widowed but then left to marry!! He is subsequently caught up with his wife in quite liberal expressions in the Church. What a shame.
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puzzleannie
Guest
some examples are a relative (brother I believe and his wife) of St. Basil, St Louis and his Queen St. Elizabeth, I believe either took vows and lived a monastic life later in their marriage, whether they actually entered monasteries I don’t recall.
there were also in the earlier days of monastic life houses with both a men’s and women’s congregation in the same place, and often after their families were raised married couples joined such foundations.
I have heard the parents of St. Therese while not necessarily joining orders did make vows chastity (continence) later in life
there were also in the earlier days of monastic life houses with both a men’s and women’s congregation in the same place, and often after their families were raised married couples joined such foundations.
I have heard the parents of St. Therese while not necessarily joining orders did make vows chastity (continence) later in life
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nightwalker
Guest
It has happened in the history of the Church, but not recently. All the cases I can think of (followers of St Bernard, and Bl. Nicholas of Flue) were much earlier in Church history, and canon law now places marriage as an impediment to entering religious life.This may seem unusual but does anyone know of any married couples that have become nuns and priests - that is stopped living as married couples? Has it happened in the history of the Church?
However I know widows and widowers who have entered religious life, and a widower who was ordained to the diocesan priesthood.
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odubhghail
Guest
There are a few cases of interest to Americans of mutual consent to live religious life and/or priesthood, and of widows and widowers pursuing priesthood and consecrated life. First, the Virgil Barber family: the father and the son became Jesuits, while the mother and daughters became Visitandines, in Georgetown, DC. Hopefully, father and son never heard the confessions of wife/mother/daughters/sisters.
Second, Pierce and Cornelia Connolly. Pierce was a Protestant pastor, who converted to Catholicism, along with his wife, Cornelia. Pierce went to Rome to follow his calling to the priesthood, but no one would ordain him without 1. Cornelia’s permission; 2. Cornelia taking a vow of celibacy. Cornelia entered the Society of the Sacred Heart in Rome, but was asked to come to England by Cardinal Wiseman (I think), and found the Society of the Holy Child Jesus. This group, unlike the Sacred Heart, was never cloistered. Pierce, jealous of the influence of the Cardinal, eventually left the priesthood and the Catholic Church, becoming a notoriously anti Catholic preacher. He resided in Rome, and Cornelia in England. Originally, they were from Philadelphia. Their conversion caused the conversion of most of Cornelia’s relatives, who remained Catholic after Pierce’s apostasy. Through their youngest son, Frank, who had an illegitimate daughter, Pierce and Cornelia have living descendants today.
There is also the case of James Kent Stone. Rev. Stone was a Protestand pastor who was a widower with three young daughters. He converted to Catholicism, and joined the newly founded Paulist Fathers, founded by Father Isaac Hecker. He then decided to embrace the religious life in the Passionists, at that time a much more cloistered monastic group, as Father Fidelis of the Cross. There is a very touching photo of him with his two grown daughters and grandson (his middle child, Ethel, died in childhood). I do not know if there are any living relatives today.
And, of course, there is your first native born saint, Elizabeth Ann Seton, whose story need not be repeated here. Due to her grandchildren’s (via her son William, the only one of her children to marry) priestly and religious vocations, she has no direct descendants today.
Our first native born saint, Marguerite d’Youville, was also a widow. After she founded the Grey Nuns, her two surviving sons became priests.
Second, Pierce and Cornelia Connolly. Pierce was a Protestant pastor, who converted to Catholicism, along with his wife, Cornelia. Pierce went to Rome to follow his calling to the priesthood, but no one would ordain him without 1. Cornelia’s permission; 2. Cornelia taking a vow of celibacy. Cornelia entered the Society of the Sacred Heart in Rome, but was asked to come to England by Cardinal Wiseman (I think), and found the Society of the Holy Child Jesus. This group, unlike the Sacred Heart, was never cloistered. Pierce, jealous of the influence of the Cardinal, eventually left the priesthood and the Catholic Church, becoming a notoriously anti Catholic preacher. He resided in Rome, and Cornelia in England. Originally, they were from Philadelphia. Their conversion caused the conversion of most of Cornelia’s relatives, who remained Catholic after Pierce’s apostasy. Through their youngest son, Frank, who had an illegitimate daughter, Pierce and Cornelia have living descendants today.
There is also the case of James Kent Stone. Rev. Stone was a Protestand pastor who was a widower with three young daughters. He converted to Catholicism, and joined the newly founded Paulist Fathers, founded by Father Isaac Hecker. He then decided to embrace the religious life in the Passionists, at that time a much more cloistered monastic group, as Father Fidelis of the Cross. There is a very touching photo of him with his two grown daughters and grandson (his middle child, Ethel, died in childhood). I do not know if there are any living relatives today.
And, of course, there is your first native born saint, Elizabeth Ann Seton, whose story need not be repeated here. Due to her grandchildren’s (via her son William, the only one of her children to marry) priestly and religious vocations, she has no direct descendants today.
Our first native born saint, Marguerite d’Youville, was also a widow. After she founded the Grey Nuns, her two surviving sons became priests.
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benedicter
Guest
That history was very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
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mtnutt
Guest
In some cases it is possible to get a dispensation to be a priest even if you are married. I personally know of 2 priests who were married and had children before they became priests and were still married at the time I knew them. I believe both of them were converts to Catholicism after their marriage. I know that one of them had been a pastor of a protestant (I think Baptist) church and then converted. Interestingly he brought his whole congregation into the church with him. I know his story because my daughter went to school with his daughter.
This situation is obviously rather rare, but it is possible.
This situation is obviously rather rare, but it is possible.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
I vaguely remember that St. Maximillian Kolbe’s parents both went into religious life after their last son entered the monastery. I haven’t had time to double check my memory, but when I do I’ll let you know.
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odubhghail
Guest
MT, You are referring to JP II’s pastoral provision, whereby converts who were married clergy within some Protestant denominations- whose theology is closer to Catholic theology, such as Lutherans and Anglicans (Episcopalians), can be ordained as Catholic priests while remaining married. The same rule applies as for permanent deacons, though: should the clergyman be widowed, he cannot remarry.
The provision would not apply to ministers from groups such as fundamentalists, or the Society of Friends (Quakers).
The provision would not apply to ministers from groups such as fundamentalists, or the Society of Friends (Quakers).
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