From Orthodox to Catholic?

[Pjhstala1]

Hello all,

I’m hoping to gain some clarity on entering the Catholic Church.

Seventeen years ago I became a Christian and was received into the Orthodox Church. Within five years I had lost my faith; or, more accurately, engaging in the life of the Church ceased to have meaning. I’ll spare you the details, but hardship struck and my faith wasn’t strong enough to provide much support or ultimate meaning during this period. I stopped attending church, put questions of faith aside, and tried to live my life the best I could.

Several years ago God spoke to me again, quietly nudging me back towards faith. In that time I’ve studied broadly and have regularly visited a number of houses of worship from a number of traditions. Time and time again the depth and breadth of the Roman Catholic tradition has inspired me. This “big tent” is home to so much beauty and diversity. At the same time, I feel most comfortable with the Eastern Rite and am, oddly enough, of the same ethnic stock as one of the major Eastern Rite churches in my area.

So, my question is twofold:

1.) If a convert to Orthodoxy enters the Catholic faith, must they enter it through a jurisdiction that practices the same rite? That is, must an Eastern Orthodox Christian become an Eastern Catholic if they were originally a convert to Orthodoxy?

2.) If I were to enter the Church through the Eastern Rite, would orienting my devotional life, at times, toward the West make for a kind of schizophrenic existence if coupled with life in an Eastern parish? I feel like I’d be Roman at home and Eastern during liturgy. Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this? It doesn’t seem insurmountable-- just odd, I suppose.

Thanks for any guidance!

PJH

 

[Jestersage]

While I do not have an answer from myself, this can be a good start:
ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur192.htm

Read the entire thing, as there are postscript from Canon Lawyers.

I will also have my own postscript: Welcome home, and pray that Christ will guide you through.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Regarding the first question, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches states:

Canon 35 - Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Canon 36 - The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.

In other words, converts from Eastern Orthodoxy are expected to join the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church (whether that be Melkite or Chaldean or what-have-you). It’s possible to transfer to another Church (such as the Latin Church), though it’s generally discouraged and requires permission from the hierarchy.

Regarding the second question, I know some Eastern Catholics who have freely adopted some devotional practices of the West, such as the rosary and Eucharistic Adoration, and have found them to be harmonious with their own traditions. Conversely, while belonging to the Roman Rite, I use Byzantine icons in my own private devotions and see no conflict whatever with Western spirituality. Though some may disagree.

 

[dmar198]

Regarding the first question, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches states:

Canon 35 - Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Canon 36 - The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.

In other words, converts from Eastern Orthodoxy are expected to join the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church (whether that be Melkite or Chaldean or what-have-you). It’s possible to transfer to another Church (such as the Latin Church), though it’s generally discouraged and requires permission from the hierarchy.

Regarding the second question, I know some Eastern Catholics who have freely adopted some devotional practices of the West, such as the rosary and Eucharistic Adoration, and have found them to be harmonious with their own traditions. Conversely, while belonging to the Roman Rite, I use Byzantine icons in my own private devotions and see no conflict whatever with Western spirituality. Though some may disagree.

Indeed, the Eastern style of iconography has a long history in Western Catholicism. The Cross of St. Francis of Assisi (aka the San Damiano Cross) is an Eastern style icon partly due to the presence (in St. Francis’s time) of a large Orthodox population near his region of Italy.

 

[angell1]

Regarding the first question, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches states:

Canon 35 - Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Canon 36 - The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.

In other words, converts from Eastern Orthodoxy are expected to join the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church (whether that be Melkite or Chaldean or what-have-you). It’s possible to transfer to another Church (such as the Latin Church), though it’s generally discouraged and requires permission from the hierarchy.

Regarding the second question, I know some Eastern Catholics who have freely adopted some devotional practices of the West, such as the rosary and Eucharistic Adoration, and have found them to be harmonious with their own traditions. Conversely, while belonging to the Roman Rite, I use Byzantine icons in my own private devotions and see no conflict whatever with Western spirituality. Though some may disagree.

can’t really fathom why anyone would disagree, either we are only, holy, cahotlic and apostolic or we’re not. surely, that means we can appreciate all aspects of eastern and western devotions and choose the ones that we like?

 

[Vico]

Hello all,

I’m hoping to gain some clarity on entering the Catholic Church.

Seventeen years ago I became a Christian and was received into the Orthodox Church. Within five years I had lost my faith; or, more accurately, engaging in the life of the Church ceased to have meaning. I’ll spare you the details, but hardship struck and my faith wasn’t strong enough to provide much support or ultimate meaning during this period. I stopped attending church, put questions of faith aside, and tried to live my life the best I could.

Several years ago God spoke to me again, quietly nudging me back towards faith. In that time I’ve studied broadly and have regularly visited a number of houses of worship from a number of traditions. Time and time again the depth and breadth of the Roman Catholic tradition has inspired me. This “big tent” is home to so much beauty and diversity. At the same time, I feel most comfortable with the Eastern Rite and am, oddly enough, of the same ethnic stock as one of the major Eastern Rite churches in my area.

So, my question is twofold:

1.) If a convert to Orthodoxy enters the Catholic faith, must they enter it through a jurisdiction that practices the same rite? That is, must an Eastern Orthodox Christian become an Eastern Catholic if they were originally a convert to Orthodoxy?

2.) If I were to enter the Church through the Eastern Rite, would orienting my devotional life, at times, toward the West make for a kind of schizophrenic existence if coupled with life in an Eastern parish? I feel like I’d be Roman at home and Eastern during liturgy. Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this? It doesn’t seem insurmountable-- just odd, I suppose.

Thanks for any guidance!

PJH

Were you a baptized Christian before joining the Orthodox? If so was it eastern or western?

 

[Pjhstala1]

Were you a baptized Christian before joining the Orthodox? If so was it eastern or western?

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

Yes, as a child I was baptized in the Episcopal Church.

 

[Vico]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

Yes, as a child I was baptized in the Episcopal Church.

So then your baptism is in the Latin tradition not eastern.

If you were baptized as an infant and either parent was a Catholic, or you were adopted as an infant by a Catholic, then that must be considered.

 

[Pjhstala1]

So then your baptism is in the Latin tradition not eastern.

If you were baptized as an infant and either parent was a Catholic, or you were adopted as an infant by a Catholic, then that must be considered.

Interesting. My father was Catholic. So where might that leave me?

 

[Vico]

Interesting. My father was Catholic. So where might that leave me?

A different rule applies for the child of a Catholic parent when baptized under age fourteen. So for a child of a Catholic parent baptized under age fourteen then the sui iuris church of the Catholic parent is the sui iuris church of the child. Therefore if the Catholic father was an eastern Catholic, then it will be his eastern Catholic church, else the Latin Catholic church.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

Yes, as a child I was baptized in the Episcopal Church.

Unless you are planning to become a priest or a nun, or are looking forward to a Sacrament of Matrimony - this may be a moot point – you can freely choose and worship where you are most comfortable, no matter which Church within the Catholic Communion you belong to per the law.

If you are most comfortable at the Eastern Church near you, then start worshiping there. The priest will be able to welcome you one way or the other, by his own experience or asking the bishop on what dispensations you will need.

 

[MorEphrem]

Regarding the first question, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches states:

Canon 35 - Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Canon 36 - The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.

In other words, converts from Eastern Orthodoxy are expected to join the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church (whether that be Melkite or Chaldean or what-have-you). It’s possible to transfer to another Church (such as the Latin Church), though it’s generally discouraged and requires permission from the hierarchy.

Regarding the second question, I know some Eastern Catholics who have freely adopted some devotional practices of the West, such as the rosary and Eucharistic Adoration, and have found them to be harmonious with their own traditions. Conversely, while belonging to the Roman Rite, I use Byzantine icons in my own private devotions and see no conflict whatever with Western spirituality. Though some may disagree.

Sigh If you elect to quote canons as a [very inorganic] response, one might as well be consistent with legal language. You are not “expected” - you are automatically inscribed. A rescript is possible. Both more succinct and consistent in terms of diction.

That being said, I continue to be perplexed by canon-citing existing as the most proliferated form of “discussion” in this sub-forum.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Sigh If you elect to quote canons as a [very inorganic] response, one might as well be consistent with legal language. You are not “expected” - you are automatically inscribed. A rescript is possible. Both more succinct and consistent in terms of diction.

That being said, I continue to be perplexed by canon-citing existing as the most proliferated form of “discussion” in this sub-forum.

I’d like to better understand your point of view on that topic. To avoid derailing this thread, I’ve created a new one: Canon-Citing in Forum Discussions.

 

[Constantin]

To the OP: Exactly what do you hope to find in the Catholic church which cannot be found in the Orthodox church? I would claim that the depth of the tradition of at least some Orthodox churches at least rivals the Catholic. Also, the beauty of their liturgy is astounding and surpasses what one sees in many modern Catholic masses not celebrated according to the rubrics.

 

[angelic06]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

Yes, as a child I was baptized in the Episcopal Church.

If you live in the U.S. or Canada, you are eligible, but not mandated, to join the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter, a Catholic jurisdiction in the Latin Church sui juris intended chiefly for former Anglicans and Methodists. Depending on where you live, there might be an Ordinariate parish near you, but this doesn’t affect your right to join the Ordinariate as such. We have our own bishop, the Most Rev. Steven Lopes, appointed by Pope Francis in 2015 and consecrated in 2016.

Conversely, many parishioners at Ordinariate parishes are members of the territorial diocese in which they live instead of the Ordinariate.

Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter

Update: I didnt read the rest of your post regarding being more comfortable in Eastern Christianity before commenting. That being said, if you wish to transfer into an Eastern Catholic sui juris, you would need to petition the relevant Eastern church hierarch for a formal transfer, considering your background as an Episcopalian. I will let those who have knowledge of the transfer process elaborate.

 

[Monica4316]

To the OP: Exactly what do you hope to find in the Catholic church which cannot be found in the Orthodox church? I would claim that the depth of the tradition of at least some Orthodox churches at least rivals the Catholic. Also, the beauty of their liturgy is astounding and surpasses what one sees in many modern Catholic masses not celebrated according to the rubrics.

Why compare with the modern Masses not said according to the rubrics? I have found Eastern Catholic liturgy and the Traditional Latin Mass (where I go) is as beautiful

The question though should be doctrinal. If the person believes in the Pope.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m an Eastern Catholic convert from Orthodoxy…

Firstly, it all depends where you’re baptized. You were not baptised Orthodox so you’d be Latin rite Catholic. Vico brought up the point that if your parent(s) was baptized Catholic their rite matters, if you were a child in your baptism. If its really confusing maybe you could speak to the Chancery in the Catholic diocese where you live? I solved a lot of problems that way.

Let’s say if you’ll be a Latin rite Catholic. Then you’d need to follow Latin fasts and days of obligation regardless of where you attend Mass. But you can go to any Catholic liturgy and have Communion there. If you’d like you can switch officially to the Eastern rite you like, after becoming Catholic. If you would be Eastern rite, that would happen wherever you become Catholic and you would be the same rite as your parent. You would again need to follow the Eastern fasts and days of obligation.

I live in an area that simply doesn’t have my rite at all. There’s no eparchy nor parish in my country. I got permission to follow the Latin days of fasting and obligation for that reason.

As for your second question, the Church encourages us to keep our heritage and mixing rites liturgically is highly discouraged (ie Latinizing Eastern parishes). As an Eastern Catholic I try to say some Eastern prayers and have some icons, and have studied a bit of Eastern spirituality. But you can go to any Catholic liturgy and have Communion there. I’ve also met Latin Catholics who use Eastern devotional traditions and Eastern rite Catholics who pray the Rosary. Although we are encouraged to keep our traditions, we are all Catholic and all in union. For example an Eastern rite Catholic can go to daily Mass at a Latin parish. Catholics can read any approved book Eastern or Western.

The Sacrament that would be affected is Matrimony, I’m not sure about the others but Confession and Communion you could receive in any rite. If you ever join a religious order of another rite you’d need permission. That’s about it.

Hope it helps!

 

[Constantin]

Why compare with the modern Masses not said according to the rubrics? I have found Eastern Catholic liturgy and the Traditional Latin Mass (where I go) is as beautiful

The question though should be doctrinal. If the person believes in the Pope.

Because the Novus Ordo is what is celebrated in > 95% of Catholic masses today. It is what constitutes the Catholic church today, no way around that.

What do you mean by “believe in the pope”? The Nicene creed, no matter whether you use the original version “et in spiritum sanctum, qui ex patre procedit” or not, does not contain a single reference to the bishop of Rome. Neither does the Apostolic creed.

 

[Monica4316]

Because the Novus Ordo is what is celebrated in > 95% of Catholic masses today. It is what constitutes the Catholic church today, no way around that.

What do you mean by “believe in the pope”? The Nicene creed, no matter whether you use the original version “et in spiritum sanctum, qui ex patre procedit” or not, does not contain a single reference to the bishop of Rome. Neither does the Apostolic creed.

The Filioque isn’t the only difference between Catholic and Orthodox… The view of the Papacy, marriage, Immaculate Conception… Those are differences too.

Regarding the Novus Ordo… I attend the TLM myself… That’s the spirituality I’m drawn to in the Latin rite. But when I visited Russia, I went to Novus Ordo there and it was soo different from North America. Much more traditional. Everyone seemed to receive Communion on the tongue. Great homilies. Traditional music even with Latin. It didn’t feel the same way. So though I personally prefer the TLM, Novus Ordo can be said similar to that.

 

[wynd]

2.) If I were to enter the Church through the Eastern Rite, would orienting my devotional life, at times, toward the West make for a kind of schizophrenic existence if coupled with life in an Eastern parish? I feel like I’d be Roman at home and Eastern during liturgy. Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this? It doesn’t seem insurmountable-- just odd, I suppose.

I went the other way (Roman Catholic to Orthodox). As I started adding Eastern elements to my spirituality, it was tough because I couldn’t really ask questions or talk to anyone about it except online. Also, it’s nice having your personal prayers match up with what you hear in public worship (Trisagion, Lord have mercy, etc.). Like you said, not insurmountable, just odd.