From the frying pan

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Daz

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…and into the fire?

I mentioned these issues on another thread but perhaps for this particular worry this forum is the best place for discussion.

So I have accepted the theological necessity to convert to Catholicism. However as I mentioned in another thread, I am concerned about the future. I am an Anglo Catholic and I worship at a wonderful Forward in Faith parish, with a magnificent liturgy and solemn celebration of the mass (validity or otherwise of which is irrelevant to my current concern!). I hear that there is division within the Roman Catholic church on liturgical matters, and this worries me. There seems to have been resistance to Pope Benedict XVI on a number of levels, which I just cannot understand. So I guess I am asking, and it is only curiosity and I don’t want to start any arguing, whether traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church sometimes feel a little persecuted, as we Anglo Catholics do in the Church of England? And if so, as I have turned to FiF, to whom do you turn for support?
 
Are you familiar with the Pastoral Provision? Google it, check it out, and tell your rector!
 
Daz said:
…and into the fire?

I mentioned these issues on another thread but perhaps for this particular worry this forum is the best place for discussion.

So I have accepted the theological necessity to convert to Catholicism. However as I mentioned in another thread, I am concerned about the future. I am an Anglo Catholic and I worship at a wonderful Forward in Faith parish, with a magnificent liturgy and solemn celebration of the mass (validity or otherwise of which is irrelevant to my current concern!). I hear that there is division within the Roman Catholic church on liturgical matters, and this worries me. There seems to have been resistance to Pope Benedict XVI on a number of levels, which I just cannot understand. So I guess I am asking, and it is only curiosity and I don’t want to start any arguing, whether traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church sometimes feel a little persecuted, as we Anglo Catholics do in the Church of England? And if so, as I have turned to FiF, to whom do you turn for support?
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Yes, the traditionalists do feel somewhat persecuted. However, this has begun to turn around since Pope Benedict XVI’s election, and the issuance of the motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum.”

However, do not let this dissuade you from becoming Catholic.

As I think the poster above me mentioned… Maybe call your diocese, and ask if there is an Anglican-use parish nearby.
 
Sorry, should have mentioned I am in England, and as far as I am aware te Anglican Use does not exist over here. I pray for the corporate reunion of English Anglo Catholics, and I understand such a thing may be in the offing, but I have come to a point of wondering if I am not being true to myself in not exploring individual conversion.
 
Daz said:
Sorry, should have mentioned I am in England, and as far as I am aware te Anglican Use does not exist over here. I pray for the corporate reunion of English Anglo Catholics, and I understand such a thing may be in the offing, but I have come to a point of wondering if I am not being true to myself in not exploring individual conversion.
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Oooh. Ok.

What about the Traditional Anglican Communion? Weren’t they just recently received into the Church?
 
Daz said:
…and into the fire?

I mentioned these issues on another thread but perhaps for this particular worry this forum is the best place for discussion.

So I have accepted the theological necessity to convert to Catholicism. However as I mentioned in another thread, I am concerned about the future. I am an Anglo Catholic and I worship at a wonderful Forward in Faith parish, with a magnificent liturgy and solemn celebration of the mass (validity or otherwise of which is irrelevant to my current concern!). I hear that there is division within the Roman Catholic church on liturgical matters, and this worries me. There seems to have been resistance to Pope Benedict XVI on a number of levels, which I just cannot understand. So I guess I am asking, and it is only curiosity and I don’t want to start any arguing, whether traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church sometimes feel a little persecuted, as we Anglo Catholics do in the Church of England? And if so, as I have turned to FiF, to whom do you turn for support?
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if you’re doing what the Pope supports, then you’re on the side of the Catholic Church, and those who are “attacking” are not 🙂 it’s sad but that’s just how it is. I’m sure the Pope is totally fine with reverent liturgy in fact he supports it. Try to find a TLM parish if you can.
Yea sometimes being traditional means being persecuted, but what really matters is if we’re following the Church teachings, and actually you might be surprised, there are more “traditional Catholics” than you might expect. And it’s hard to feel persecuted when the Vatican agrees with you lol. (for example, if you speak out against halloween Masses, you’re speaking out against something the Church forbids as well).
I’d say that this was a worry I had in my conversion as well, but now that I’m Catholic (I joined this Easter), I’'m very glad I did it 🙂 it’s very much worth it.
God bless!
 
Daz said:
Sorry, should have mentioned I am in England, and as far as I am aware te Anglican Use does not exist over here. I pray for the corporate reunion of English Anglo Catholics, and I understand such a thing may be in the offing, but I have come to a point of wondering if I am not being true to myself in not exploring individual conversion.
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The English Catholic Church is a liberal bastion of nonsense. Hopefully Bishop Nichols will straighten things out.

Read this blog:

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/
 
No, TAC has not been received. They have exchanged correspondence with the CDF and have put out many press releases hinting that Rome is considering granting them a personal prelature.

Many issues remain to be resolved, not the least of which is their married bishops.
 
dixibehr said:
Alas, no.

I think it’s a dream the TAC has. Rome, up to this point, as shown no interest.
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Really? It sounded like Rome was all into it, but the English bishops were freaking out.

Hopefully it comes about soon…
 
crm114 said:
No, TAC has not been received. They have exchanged correspondence with the CDF and have put out many press releases hinting that Rome is considering granting them a personal prelature.

Many issues remain to be resolved, not the least of which is their married bishops.
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I believe I read (from a link in, probably, the non-Catholic forum) that Pope Benedict was for the merger but Cardinal Kasper (ahead of the Vatican congregation that facilitates this type of thing) was against it. Apparently there are more recent “doings” as I found this overheardinthesacristy.net/?p=2837 and this catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14931 The pastoral provision and a personal prelature would be a wonderful thing for numerous Anglo-catholics!
 
brigid12 said:
I believe I read (from a link in, probably, the non-Catholic forum) that Pope Benedict was for the merger …
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Pope John Paul was extraordinarily generous toward Anglicans in granting the Pastoral Provision, and he did much to encourage separated Anglicans. Pope Benedict is even more favorably disposed to reconcile separated Anglicans, and I remain hopeful that this may yet occur during his reign. I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that of every pope since Henry VIII, Benedict is the one prepared to do the most. But it is a two-way street. Anglican groups desiring to return must be prepared to deal with Rome’s legitimate concerns. One stumbling block is the view of many Anglicans that, upon their return, they should have their own ritual church, in communion with Rome, but outside the Latin Rite. This flies in the face of history. There has always been one Western rite, and the CofE was part of the Western Rite at the time of its schism. There must be realistic expectations all around. Something like the Pastoral Provision or a personal prelature, maybe. A separate rite? I don’t say it is beyond a pope’s power to do such a thing, but I cannot imagine how he could justify it to himself pastorally.

BTW, the Pastoral Provision remains in force in the USA, and, as Benedict appoints more and more solid bishops, more and more US bishops will look favorably on the idea of Pastoral Provision parishes within their dioceses. Nothing prevents a separated Anglican diocese or parish in the USA from approaching the local ordinary and asking to be admitted as a personal parish of the Pastoral Provision. Reunion does not have to happen all at once.

Pray for Christian unity: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/weeks-prayer-doc/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20070710_week-prayer-2008_en.html

Father Paul, pray for us!
 
jay29 said:
The English Catholic Church is a liberal bastion of nonsense. Hopefully Bishop Nichols will straighten things out.

Read this blog:

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/
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Just thought of something else I wanted to add as well as just pointing out that I already read his blog.

How should one respond to this state of affairs? I hope you can see where I am coming from, having recognised theologically what must be done, but to be confronted with what you refer to as a liberal nonsense!

Also Monica4316 referred to TLM parishes- what are these?
 
I’m just curious whether you considered Orthodoxy, and, if so, why you rejected it as an option. Joe
 
Alethiaphile said:
I’m just curious whether you considered Orthodoxy, and, if so, why you rejected it as an option. Joe
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I am considering Orthodoxy, and have not rejected it. Latin Rite Catholicism seems to me to be the Western expression of the faith once delivered. Also, the ethnic attachments of the Orthodox church trouble me. I am however still working this through in mind. For me it will be the infallibility of the papacy on which my decision hinges, as it seems that all other doctrinal differences are rendered irrelevant if one accepts the Pope’s infallibility. I am reading, thinking and praying on the issue.
 
Daz said:
I am considering Orthodoxy, and have not rejected it. Latin Rite Catholicism seems to me to be the Western expression of the faith once delivered. Also, the ethnic attachments of the Orthodox church trouble me. I am however still working this through in mind. For me it will be the infallibility of the papacy on which my decision hinges, as it seems that all other doctrinal differences are rendered irrelevant if one accepts the Pope’s infallibility. I am reading, thinking and praying on the issue.
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If you’re Anglo-Catholic, why would you become Orthodox? It seems to be much further away than you are right now?

And, I could not advise you to join the schismatic Orthodox.
 
BayernAnhaenger said:
If you’re Anglo-Catholic, why would you become Orthodox? It seems to be much further away than you are right now?

And, I could not advise you to join the schismatic Orthodox.
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I simply feel it would be remiss of me not to explore both of the apostolic churches, but I know what you mean, it certainly would be more of a leap.
 
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