B
Bookcat
Guest
Some can say the same about lots of things…but saying such does not make it true.
Nor by the way do things have to “come directly from God” …(not that this does not…but as they say… “just saying”)
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Nor by the way do things have to “come directly from God” …(not that this does not…but as they say… “just saying”)
B
Bookcat
Guest
Lots of people defend the other forms of lust too (and contraception is objectively an act of lust…even if that is not the intent) …in the name of love and with other like arguments…this is just one subject among many.
But admittedly it is very counter -cultural (as are the other forms of chastity). So it is somewhat understandable in a certain sense that some have embraced it thinking it is normal.
Indeed …unfortunately society has turned this kind into something of “apparent virtue” even…it is praised as good.
Like the early Christians…we are counter-cultural.
But admittedly it is very counter -cultural (as are the other forms of chastity). So it is somewhat understandable in a certain sense that some have embraced it thinking it is normal.
Indeed …unfortunately society has turned this kind into something of “apparent virtue” even…it is praised as good.
Like the early Christians…we are counter-cultural.
D
DemetriusB
Guest
I’m sorry but this is logic is quite narrow. How could you believe God did not intend for humans to reproduce? Isn’t procreation reflective of God’s image and his ability to create?
B
Bookcat
Guest
"Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful. "
~ Pope Benedict XVI
The whole thing is wonderful…one of my very favorites…do not miss a word of it:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(this is connected with my last general post in a particular way…so read that too in the light of the above)
~ Pope Benedict XVI
The whole thing is wonderful…one of my very favorites…do not miss a word of it:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(this is connected with my last general post in a particular way…so read that too in the light of the above)
A
ahs
Guest
WOW! (I’m not trying to suggest that the homily can be summed up as I shortened it above…that was just to save space).
That post was helpful on a couple levels for me, regarding this thread and regarding a curren tissue within my own family about truth and resistance to truth.
Thanks so much for posting this!!
B
Bookcat
Guest
Your very welcome…make sure to read the whole text…there is MUCH more in the whole…
I linked it above.This also will be of interest…another favorite of mine…keep reading abit down:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060108_battesimo_en.html
A
ahs
Guest
But how do you know God doesn’t feel that way about it? How do you know it’s based on human error? What if you’re wrong? Where do you go for confirmation of Truth?
I know it’s God’s view because I can follow, chronologically, logically, and theologically where God sent His Son to the world, Christ established the Church, handed Authority to the Apostels, and the Apostles handed down the Traditions and Scriptures through the ages.
But if you don’t see it that way, then to whom are you going for your Truth? And if you go to the Church for Truth, why is only some of its Truth really true, but not the rest? The Church’s view has never changed on contraception…never…so what makes it human error?
A
ahs
Guest
How did you find these?! I just bookmarked the vatican.va website.Your very welcome…make sure to read the whole text…there is MUCH more in the whole…
This also will be of interest…another favorite of mine…keep reading abit down:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060108_battesimo_en.html
Yeah, that was gorgeous…I actually forwarded it to my wife…maybe we can get our Priest to give that at our next baby’s Baptism. :tiphat:
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
Following is a link to a CAF thread from 2008 that is relevant to some aspects of this discussion.
Your “conscience” versus Church teaching
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=255971
Your “conscience” versus Church teaching
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=255971
B
Bookcat
Guest
In the first homily above:
"In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”…
“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations. The reasoning of the former person, the common way of thinking is usually directed to possession, well-being, influence, success, fame and so forth. Yet in this way its scope is too limited. Thus, in the final analysis, one’s “self” remains the centre of the world. We must learn to think more profoundly. St Paul tells us what this means in the second part of the sentence: it is necessary to learn to understand God’s will, so that it may shape our own will. This is in order that we ourselves may desire what God desires, because we recognize that what God wants is the beautiful and the good.”
~Pope Benedict XVI
"In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”…
“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations. The reasoning of the former person, the common way of thinking is usually directed to possession, well-being, influence, success, fame and so forth. Yet in this way its scope is too limited. Thus, in the final analysis, one’s “self” remains the centre of the world. We must learn to think more profoundly. St Paul tells us what this means in the second part of the sentence: it is necessary to learn to understand God’s will, so that it may shape our own will. This is in order that we ourselves may desire what God desires, because we recognize that what God wants is the beautiful and the good.”
~Pope Benedict XVI
B
Bookcat
Guest
And this line:
"The Apostle exhorts us to non-conformism. In our Letter he says: we should not submit to the logic of our time. "
"The Apostle exhorts us to non-conformism. In our Letter he says: we should not submit to the logic of our time. "
O
Odell
Guest
But how is abstaining put pressure on lovemaking? Is your marriage totally dependent on sentimental impulses and transient emotions or rather does it possesses, apart from all this, a distinct objective existence in the person and between the persons?
If so how does abstaining or willing a child from the action put pressure on lovemaking?
T
TasteAndSee
Guest
I hate to post and run, but it took me a while to get through all the posts in this thread. On a personal note:
I used to be a Catholic who thought ABC was OK. I thought this for years. As I slowly learned more and more, however, my heart started to change, thank God.
My marriage is now an NFP marriage and we do not look at a period of abstinence as a denial of one another. In fact, it’s quite the opposite - it’s an act of self-giving love. When we do abstain (and only for good reason) I well up with love for my husband because I see how much he respects me and I, in turn, have an enormous amount of respect for him. He is an incredible, incredible man. He wasn’t even Catholic when we started using NFP, but he was, by the grace of God, all for it. I was using the pill at the time, and I think all the ill health effects that hormone-based ABC can result in worried him.
Throwing away my birth control pills was, strangely, one of the hardest things I have ever done. BUT, when someone on a message board said to me, “You are in danger of losing your soul,” I knew they were right, so I tossed them out. I am so, so glad I did. I actually feel physically better now that I am not on them and my marriage is stronger than ever.
I used to be a Catholic who thought ABC was OK. I thought this for years. As I slowly learned more and more, however, my heart started to change, thank God.
My marriage is now an NFP marriage and we do not look at a period of abstinence as a denial of one another. In fact, it’s quite the opposite - it’s an act of self-giving love. When we do abstain (and only for good reason) I well up with love for my husband because I see how much he respects me and I, in turn, have an enormous amount of respect for him. He is an incredible, incredible man. He wasn’t even Catholic when we started using NFP, but he was, by the grace of God, all for it. I was using the pill at the time, and I think all the ill health effects that hormone-based ABC can result in worried him.
Throwing away my birth control pills was, strangely, one of the hardest things I have ever done. BUT, when someone on a message board said to me, “You are in danger of losing your soul,” I knew they were right, so I tossed them out. I am so, so glad I did. I actually feel physically better now that I am not on them and my marriage is stronger than ever.
O
Odell
Guest
Thank you this is what was intended by this thread. I want to know why feel their marriage is stronger. We sort of got derailed here for the moment. Though interesting I would like more post like this. Thanks
S
sw85
Guest
Distinctly related to this is the fact that the Church’s teachings on contraception follow logically from the same natural law philosophy from which its teaching on all of sexual morality derive, including its prohibition on homosexuality, masturbation, various paraphilias, etc. How is it possible to condemn these things while declaring the teachings from which the prohibition derives as wrong?
L
LaSainte
Guest
How sad is it that I am actually sort of hoping that during my c-section in 5 weeks, the doctor accidentally ties my tubes or something so that I can finally stop worrying about all this ****? 
L
LaSainte
Guest
How sad is it that I am actually sort of hoping that during my c-section in 5 weeks, the doctor accidentally ties my tubes or something so that I can finally stop worrying about all this ****?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes that is not a happy thing.How sad is it that I am actually sort of hoping that during my c-section in 5 weeks, the doctor accidentally ties my tubes or something so that I can finally stop worrying about all this ****?
There is though no need to worry…that can be set aside…
Greater Trust is what we all need.
L
LaSainte
Guest
I think the idea is that sex rarely happens spontaneously just because you want to unite with your spouse. It is always a matter of “CAN we do it today?”, or “Well today’s the last day we can do it so I guess we should…”, or “How bad do we want it because we are cutting it pretty close…” One way or the other, there is often so much pressure and anxiety associated with what is already a tricky part of married life.
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