From your experence why does NFP feel better than contraception?

[helplesspilgrim]

Sacred cello,

Thanks. I can tell you exactly what you’d see in every chart(billings) 7 days of menses then 25-40+ days of consistent sticky. With maybe 1 dry right before period. Not enough data or days of dry to determine safety. And while there is an off chance it’s meds, what can we do about that? She HAS to take said meds. Period.

 

[sacredcello]

Sacred cello,

Thanks. I can tell you exactly what you’d see in every chart(billings) 7 days of menses then 25-40+ days of consistent sticky. With maybe 1 dry right before period. Not enough data or days of dry to determine safety. And while there is an off chance it’s meds, what can we do about that? She HAS to take said meds. Period.

Ah, this is where the cross-check of the temperature sign is a great help as an accurate indicator of ovulation. Even when the mucus sign is difficult to read due to meds, the temperature goes up in response to ovulation. The corpus luteum produces progesterone which cause the body temperature to rise after ovulation which gives you the interpretation for Phase III (infertility). If I were in you and your wife’s shoes, I would look in to taking a class with Couple to Couple League. It is the most comprehensive of any of the methods. All you need after you’ve received instruction is a thermometer and a chart. Please let me know if I can help. The website is ccli.org You can search for a class in your area on this site.

Prayers!

 

[helplesspilgrim]

Appreciate the information. We were told for various reasons that a temp cross check is not a viable option for us, i wont get into details here. But thank you.

At this point it’s almost better to not even try, it just gets our hopes up, then they come crashing down. It’s almost better, though very much not desired, to cry it out and realize the cross has crushed us and accept it and move on. It’s to hard to have hope and your heart repeatedly ripped out.

Anyways i’m going to bow out of this thread as apparently i broke a forum rule according to a now deleted reply. Because i haven’t used ABC my comment is off topic. My apologies. Good bye.

 

[Bookcat]

“The Church, which has her origin in the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, (39) is a mystery of communion. In accordance with the will of her founder, she is organized around a hierarchy established for the service of the Gospel and the People of God who live by it. After the pattern of the members of the first community, all the baptized with their own proper charisms are to strive with sincere hearts for a harmonious unity in doctrine, life, and worship (cf. Acts 2:42). This is a rule which flows from the very being of the Church. For this reason, standards of conduct, appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy, cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church. Even less can relationships within the Church be inspired by the mentality of the world around it (ct. Rom 12:2).** Polling public opinion to determine the proper thing** to think or do, opposing the Magisterium by exerting the pressure of public opinion, making the excuse of a “consensus” among theologians, maintaining that the theologian is the prophetical spokesman of a “base” or autonomous community which would be the source of all truth, all this indicates a grave loss of the sense of truth and of the sense of the Church.”

CDF document Donum Veritatis -Signed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

 

[Elizabeth502]

It’s clear to me that one’s “feeling” about NFP (title thread) very much depends on a couple’s success with it. I’m not talking here only about a feeling before and after (regarding impact on the relationship), because I’m assuming that the controlling of births has been possible with both methods tried, for any couple who has two experiences to compare.

Where medical conditions threaten predictability (control), where high fertility on the part of both partners make accidents common, such a couple is probably not going to benefit from the good effects of NFP such as eloquently reported by ahs, because the failure or extremely likely failure may overshadow the benefits of abstaining, renewal, communication, respect, etc., which are byproducts for those who can use this method successfully. This is why I remain divided as to opinion of how supposedly it is a panacea, if only “done right.” So part of me wishes that the Church would modify NFP policy to be a mandate of attempt, for any couple who does not have extenuating medical situations, and to be a guide toward the ideal, rather than a command. (Or, the exceptions could be broadened.)

That said, I have some close friends, a couple who is Jewish, for whom sex has been impossible for quite some time. A certain medical condition has made him impotent, and for complicating medical reasons, he cannot correct that impotence medically. Yet they remain very close; their marriage is solid; and I continue to know them rather well. They had one child before he developed this condition. So even when a prohibition is not imposed by a religious institution, marriages can survive well without the freedom to indulge in sex (is all I’m saying). Theirs is not a matter even of cycles but of permanent abstinence.

But that ^ is not meant with any smugness. I repeat: for those who report the positive side of NFP, they have found a method of controlling births which has worked for them, in that those births have been controllable without extreme suffering, and/or they have managed peacefully with larger families than they might have chosen otherwise. I also think (again) that methodologies continue to get more sophisticated, but many couples who are not 25 have not benefited from these more modern advances, and a few would never have benefited.

 

[John_of_Woking]

NFP feels great. I can scarcely bring myself to contemplate the prospect of artificial birth control: which is a grave sin and when practiced with knowledge and consent may possibly send one to an eternity of torment. P.s most Catholics have access to the catechism so they have knowledge of its gravity.

 

[Debora123]

I don’t recall anyone on this board calling any ABC users the things you suggest, and certainly this thread represents a conversation on the topic. Does it not? Have you even read the whole thread or are you just interjecting for the sake of stating your opinion, once again, that ABC is good?

On this forum, by CAF members, I have been called arrogant, delusional, selfish… I have been told my husband and I are using each other and that our lovemaking is an act of selfishness. And although no one has said to me “you are going to Hell,” it has certainly been implied. Maybe not so much on this particular thread, but on others here on CAF.

No one in this particular thread has called me those things straight up, but enough has been insinuated to purposely make me feel that way.

Just thought I’d clarify.

 

[Blacksword]

I appreciate the lack of snark. I got for than my share of that in pre-cana where as the non-catholic party i was treated like absolute trash, told to shut up for asking questions, and laughed and scorned at for again asking questions of the priest and pre-cana instructors. They, and others at that and additional parishes, irrevocably damaged my walk through the christian faith when i was desperately seeking answers. So thank you so much.

I have great joy in my marriage, i married my best friend. But this is a terribly heavy cross to bear, and unlike christ who had someone help him with the cross, i feel more weight being thrown on our cross, and i fear i’ll never get up under tbe weight of such a cross.

Thank you for your prayers.

I’m sorry if my intent wasn’t clear I didnt mean snark at you at all. I meant it directed at those who would invalidate your real experience in the matter. May God bless you.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Surely it would be a sin of omission not to warn of the grave perils of ABC? Would it really be better to keep quiet? Or should we speak the truth in love?

 

[Debora123]

Blacksword,
You just referred to NFP as “the Rhythm Method,” which demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge of what NFP actually is. The Rhythm Method and NFP are completely different things. COMPLETELY different. Before you continue your insistence that NFP and contraception are basically the same thing, I recommend you actually learn what NFP is. NO ONE who knows what it is would ever call it the Rhythm Method. No one.

They are not completely different and I have no idea why you would say that.

They are both the means of using the woman’s cycle to plan a family. One just happens to be a more precise, updated version.

 

[sacredcello]

Surely it would be a sin of omission not to warn of the grave perils of ABC? Would it really be better to keep quiet? Or should we speak the truth in love?

Yes, John of Woking, it would be a sin of omission. I fear for the souls of so many priests and bishops who ignore this issue, or worse, tell penitents in confession to “use their conscience” in regard to ABC, regardless of whether the conscience is well formed or not.

It is good to speak the truth in love. Thank you for your clarity in speaking of this grave matter. It is a work of mercy.

 

[Nate13]

They are not completely different and I have no idea why you would say that.

They are both the means of using the woman’s cycle to plan a family. One just happens to be a more precise, updated version.

Id say they are about as close to the same as pulling out is to using a condom haha.

 

[sacredcello]

They are not completely different and I have no idea why you would say that.

They are both the means of using the woman’s cycle to plan a family. One just happens to be a more precise, updated version.

Some of us get a little ruffled when modern NFP is lumped together with Calendar Rhythm Method because the latter is not as effective for women who have irregular cycles. Therefore, it is synonymous with using no family planning at all. It has a bad rap. Calendar Rhythm does not take into account the current cycle the woman is experiencing, as no signs of fertility are used. There is also the possibility of excessive abstinence being built into Phase II with Calendar Rhythm.

 

[Debora123]

Some of us get a little ruffled when modern NFP is lumped together with Calendar Rhythm Method because the latter is not as effective for women who have irregular cycles. Therefore, it is synonymous with using no family planning at all. It has a bad rap. Calendar Rhythm does not take into account the current cycle the woman is experiencing, as no signs of fertility are used. There is also the possibility of excessive abstinence being built into Phase II with Calendar Rhythm.

…But to say the two are COMPLETELY different is just plain false.

 

[Nate13]

…But to say the two are COMPLETELY different is just plain false.

haha id say pulling out and using a condom are completely different but that’s just me. It depends on your perspective of the issue. Also I’d like to add Debora that if you have gotten nasty comments please forgive us in our over zealousness. Debating this issue is almost the same as debating the abortion issue with someone who has had an abortion. It is hard to debate it without hurting someone’s feelings. We just see so many mal effects of contraception out there in the World it is hard to be charitable at times. At least you have no mal intentions and are using it within marriage. I’m sure you and your husband would know if one or both of you was feeling used while using it.

 

[Debora123]

This whole post is just sad and depressing to me, especially as someone who has found great reward from using NFP.
Honestly though, I only personally know three other couples who use NFP. All three of those families are quite happy and close. The description of the people who are singing the praises of NFP when behind closed doors they are struggling and having a horrid time, just doesn’t resonate with me. If this is a reality for you, then I am very, very sad for you and the people you describe and will certainly keep all of you in my prayers.
I think the reason most Catholics contracept is multifaceted - some thought and assumed Vatican II would announce that it’s OK, so they feel justified (even some priests fall into this category. Fortunately, younger generations of priests are bucking his trend and tend to follow the church 100%), some Catholics select what they want to believe a la carte (I used to be one of these and it feels great to finally be in full communion), others are scared of the challenge NFP presents, others might be influenced by the prevalence of the contraceptive culture (who HASN’T been offered contraceptives at the doctor’s office?), others just honestly think they know better than the pope, bishops and priests…who knows what all the reasons are? The question is, is any reason worth the risk of your eternal soul? Not to me.

Did you even read her story?? She wrote about it in a 2 part post a few pages back.

Page 16, post 233 and 234.

 

[Debora123]

haha id say pulling out and using a condom are completely different but that’s just me. It depends on your perspective of the issue. Also I’d like to add Debora that if you have gotten nasty comments please forgive us in our over zealousness. Debating this issue is almost the same as debating the abortion issue with someone who has had an abortion. It is hard to debate it without hurting someone’s feelings. We just see so many mal effects of contraception out there in the World it is hard to be charitable at times. At least you have no mal intentions and are using it within marriage. I’m sure you and your husband would know if one or both of you was feeling used while using it.

I’m surprised you’d compare debating with someone who has killed their child to debating with someone who avoids pregnancy using condoms instead of NFP. But I guess that’s not important. Moving on…

Thanks for the apology. Rest assured, however, you have been one of the charitable ones. This thread is actually not nearly as nasty as others I have previously been involved in. I am actually very surprised at how civilly this thread is coming along, especially in comparison. So no worries buddy.

 

[sacredcello]

…But to say the two are COMPLETELY different is just plain false.

I don’t know, it depends on how you look at it, as Nate13 just described. Calendar Rhythm is certainly different. Calendar Rhythm is based on a history of past cycles, so there is no way to detect an unexpected early ovulation or delayed ovulation since no fertility signs were used. Whereas, modern NFP (sympto-thermal method) is a study of the fertility signs of the body in the present time. When we study the sexual powers, as such, it gives a sense of awe about how we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Perhaps I am biased, but I don’t get the sense of this mystery of the human person with the rhythm method as well as with STM, or those phone apps that people use to track their cycles which also give an ad hoc rhythmish interpretation. But, the modern NFP sympto-thermal method does lead me to a sense of expressing my own personhood through my body as it relates to the sexual powers.

 

[Debora123]

I don’t know, it depends on how you look at it, as Nate13 just described. Calendar Rhythm is certainly different. Calendar Rhythm is based on a history of past cycles, so there is no way to detect an unexpected early ovulation or delayed ovulation since no fertility signs were used. Whereas, modern NFP (sympto-thermal method) is a study of the fertility signs of the body in the present time. When we study the sexual powers, as such, it gives a sense of awe about how we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Perhaps I am biased, but I don’t get the sense of this mystery of the human person with the rhythm method as well as with STM, or those phone apps that people use to track their cycles which also give an ad hoc rhythmish interpretation. But, the modern NFP sympto-thermal method does lead me to a sense of expressing my own personhood through my body as it relates to the sexual powers.

I’m not sure what we’re trying to get at with all this or why people got so defensive. I’m pretty sure everyone here knows how NFP works. I stick to what I said originally:

They are not completely different and I have no idea why you would say that.

They are both the means of using the woman’s cycle to plan a family. One just happens to be a more precise, updated version.

God Bless

 

[Nate13]

I don’t know, it depends on how you look at it, as Nate13 just described. Calendar Rhythm is certainly different. Calendar Rhythm is based on a history of past cycles, so there is no way to detect an unexpected early ovulation or delayed ovulation since no fertility signs were used. Whereas, modern NFP (sympto-thermal method) is a study of the fertility signs of the body in the present time. When we study the sexual powers, as such, it gives a sense of awe about how we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Perhaps I am biased, but I don’t get the sense of this mystery of the human person with the rhythm method as well as with STM, or those phone apps that people use to track their cycles which also give an ad hoc rhythmish interpretation. But, the modern NFP sympto-thermal method does lead me to a sense of expressing my own personhood through my body as it relates to the sexual powers.

The difference is in the results. It’s like saying the 70% free throw shooter and the 99% free throw shooter are the same because they both shoot free throws…