From your experence why does NFP feel better than contraception?

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I’m not sure what we’re trying to get at with all this or why people got so defensive. I’m pretty sure everyone here knows how NFP works. I stick to what I said originally:

God Bless

👍
Its important for all the people outside of this discussion who may be looking for answers or at least that’s why its important to me to make sure the difference is known 😃 I have too many Catholic friends who don’t know what NFP is or even frankly how their reproductive systems work, not to care haha.
 
The difference is in the results. It’s like saying the 70% free throw shooter and the 99% free throw shooter are the same because they both shoot free throws…
But that’s the thing… if we are discussing results, then yeah… they are different. I don’t think blacksword was referring to results though, when he used the term “rhythm method” as a general term for natural planning. I think he was more so talking about the nature and morality of it.
 
But that’s the thing… if we are discussing results, then yeah… they are different. I don’t think blacksword was referring to results though, when he used the term “rhythm method” as a general term for natural planning. I think he was more so talking about the nature and morality of it.
Haha what else matters when people are talking about contraception? First and foremost is the effectiveness of what your using. That is what people care about. Side affects would probably be the second most important thing but a far cry second. The first thought most people will have when they hear “rhythm method” is ineffective and outdated haha.
 
This whole post is just sad and depressing to me, especially as someone who has found great reward from using NFP.
Honestly though, I only personally know three other couples who use NFP. All three of those families are quite happy and close. The description of the people who are singing the praises of NFP when behind closed doors they are struggling and having a horrid time, just doesn’t resonate with me. If this is a reality for you, then I am very, very sad for you and the people you describe and will certainly keep all of you in my prayers.😦
I think the reason most Catholics contracept is multifaceted - some thought and assumed Vatican II would announce that it’s OK, so they feel justified (even some priests fall into this category. Fortunately, younger generations of priests are bucking his trend and tend to follow the church 100%), some Catholics select what they want to believe a la carte (I used to be one of these and it feels great to finally be in full communion), others are scared of the challenge NFP presents, others might be influenced by the prevalence of the contraceptive culture (who HASN’T been offered contraceptives at the doctor’s office?), others just honestly think they know better than the pope, bishops and priests…who knows what all the reasons are? The question is, is any reason worth the risk of your eternal soul? Not to me.
But you have to realize despite trying to make it work for many couples it just doesn;t. Also the person you are addressing isn;t saying that they the Church should let us use ABC! and I am willing to bet quite a of her friends would agree too. Just because NFP is/was a cross in someones marriage doesn;t automatically mean they want to be able to use ABCs. Of course there are those that do but I am sure for many of these people it wasn;t an easy decision. I do think your reasons probably do cover some of the reasons some Catholics contracept especially perhaps those who never heard of NFP or didn;t try it in the first place. But then there are those who did NFP did their best to make it work and found their marriage being torn apart by it. And the thing is many probably begin to question the teaching and specifically the logic behind it which from what I have seen in these threads is a big stumbling point for many people.
So when it comes down to just following the teaching simply because your scared of going to hell on the off chance maybe the Church is right well thats not really a good reason to follow a teaching! and causes even more stress in a stressful situation. I imagine it is easier for people to follow a teaching when they can understand and agree with the logic/reasoning behind it.
 
Back to marriage beds as altars…found this:

The marital bed can be viewed as an altar upon which spouses offer their bodies in living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God. This is their spiritual act of worship (see Romans 12:1; see also CCC, 2031)
 
Below is a link to a Catholic Answers Special Report on Gay Marriage. I know Gay Marriage isn’t relevant to this thread, nor does this Q&A seem relevant, but the excerpt below is definitely relevant. I think almost the entire Q&A is applicable and perhaps should be bolded, but I’ve only bolded an excerpt. I’ll post the entire Q&A to make it easier to find the text within the source link.

"…What about childless heterosexual couples? How does an infertile heterosexual marriage differ from a same-sex marriage?

One big difference is that the heterosexual couple enjoys sexual complementarity, and the fullness that brings into their relationship, even if they cannot have children. Though the situation of an infertile couple is very different, there is a disturbing parallel to same-sex marriage in the situation of couples who simply choose not to have children.

Such couples are still able to have sex, the fullest physical expression of love between husband and wife. But they are doing something that profoundly disturbs the nature of the sexual act. Sexuality has two.aspects: the procreative (bringing forth children) and the unitive (strengthening the union of the couple). Artificially separating the unitive from the procreative brings discord to a marriage, distorts the relationship between husband and wife, and ends up harming their unity as spouses.

Pope John Paul II explains this with what he calls the “language of the body.” He observes that in the sexual act, man and woman implicitly give themselves totally to one another. That is what their bodies are saying, both symbolically and literally. Sexual expression, by its very nature, implies total gift of self to the other. The language of the body says, "I give myself to you completely, without reservation or condition."30 But sometimes that statement is a lie. Sometimes one or both do not give themselves completely to the other but instead use the other selfishly, as a pleasure object. Treating the other as an object is divisive rather than unitive.

There are several ways men and women can reduce one another to the status of object. Sex between couples who are not married and therefore do not bring a total commitment to their union are, in the Holy Father’s terminology, telling a lie with their bodies, because their bodies speak a language of total, unconditional, and permanent self-giving when in fact they are doing nothing of the sort.31 In that sense, their sexual expression becomes a lie, because it misrepresents their relationship. Regardless of their feelings for each other, their sexual expression promises more than it objectively delivers.

Fornication and adultery are not the only ways couples can lie with their bodies. **Married couples who are committed to exclusive, permanent, and unconditional love may also tell a lie with their bodies when they separate the procreative aspect of sex from the unitive through contraception. Here, the failure to give oneself fully is more subtle but nonetheless real. Deliberately frustrating the procreative.aspect of a sexual act creates a condition that makes self-giving only partial and reduces the spouse, in some degree, to a pleasure object used for selfish purposes.

This does not mean that sex can be truly self-giving only during fertile parts of a woman’s cycle. The Church has never taught that couples must have as many children as possible. Rather, it means that interference with fertility both arises out of spousal selfishness and increases it. The Church approves natural family planning, in which couples abstain during fertile periods when they prayerfully have determined that there is a need to avoid pregnancy. In these cases the spouses are not separating the unitive and procreative aspects of a sexual act; they are simply refraining from performing the act. Similarly, sex after menopause or when suffering from other forms of infertility do not divide the unitive from the procreative. The couple’s act is still ordered toward procreation; it is simply that procreation will not occur.32"…**

Gay Marriage
catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp
 
…That’s not the issue: rather, it’s what level of authority, and therefore assent, is owed to this particular teaching. Where does fallibility begin and end, where is divine revelation and where is possible human error? And though it may be clear for you, the manifest evidence of reality, with many serious Catholic theologians, and lay people, not to mention priests and even bishops, taking positions of varying degrees of separation from aspects of Humanae Vitae and it’s level of authority, is that the issue is far from clear and simple. As I said, if it’s in the Creed, if it’s declared ex cathedra as infallible, that will end the discussionfor me. Until then, God bless.
I copied this from Bookcat in another post:

"From the Document issued in 1997:

"The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life" [Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, emphasis added].

There is no question that Catholics are to assent to this teaching…it is not up for grabs. "

Of all the arguments for contraception not being a grave sin, I keep seeing and hearing (not just in this forum but with my personal friends as well) “90% of Catholics do it” and “I don’t feel convicted”, and “I used my conscience to come to this decision”.

There’s the official opinion of the Church, as handed down from the Apostles in Apostolic Tradition, whose consciences were formed by Christ Himself. So, who’s the better judge on this? You and your conscience, or the Church that adheres to Christ’s?

There’s also alot of “show me in the Bible where contraception is condemned” and then you dismiss the story of Onan as being misinterpreted. Show us then, where in the Bible is contraception praised or shown to be acceptable. Where did God show us that we should use contraceptive devices? Where in our Sacred Tradition are condoms praised as an acceptable method of birth control? What part of Church Teaching or Scripture are you basing your claim?
 
Of all the arguments for contraception not being a grave sin, I keep seeing and hearing (not just in this forum but with my personal friends as well) “90% of Catholics do it”".
(aside from the realty that polls…are well…just polls. This depend on who are asked…how they are asked etc…as they say statistics lie…(God though does not).)

Add:

“The Church, which has her origin in the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, (39) is a mystery of communion. In accordance with the will of her founder, she is organized around a hierarchy established for the service of the Gospel and the People of God who live by it. After the pattern of the members of the first community, all the baptized with their own proper charisms are to strive with sincere hearts for a harmonious unity in doctrine, life, and worship (cf. Acts 2:42). This is a rule which flows from the very being of the Church. For this reason, standards of conduct, appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy, cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church. Even less can relationships within the Church be inspired by the mentality of the world around it (ct. Rom 12:2). Polling public opinion to determine the proper thing to think or do, opposing the Magisterium by exerting the pressure of public opinion, making the excuse of a “consensus” among theologians, maintaining that the theologian is the prophetical spokesman of a “base” or autonomous community which would be the source of all truth, all this indicates a grave loss of the sense of truth and of the sense of the Church.”

CDF document Donum Veritatis -Signed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
 
Of all the arguments for contraception not being a grave sin, I keep seeing and hearing (not just in this forum but with my personal friends as well) … and “I used my conscience to come to this decision”.
And a good meditation from Pope Benedict XVI for us…for seeking rectitude in life:

“We must free ourselves from the hidden lies with which we deceive ourselves. God sees through them, and when we come before God, we too are forced to recognize them. “But who can discern his errors? Clear me from hidden faults” prays the Psalmist (Ps 19:12 [18:13]). Failure to recognize my guilt, the illusion of my innocence, does not justify me and does not save me, because I am culpable for the numbness of my conscience and my incapacity to recognize the evil in me for what it is…”

–Pope Benedict XVI Encyclical Letter: Spe Salvi
 
Also, I didn’t realize that the opposing side couldn’t give their personal views/opinions on controversial thread subjects. My mistake.🤷
There is no ‘opposing side’ in a non-debate thread like this. The OP wasn’t asking for opinions on NFP, he was simply asking a question of 'pro-NFP’ers. I just wanted to point that out in light of the fact that there are so many other appropriate places to give personal views/opinions on controversial subjects, that your complaint is really a moot point.

I would appeal to your sense of courtesy on this one. 👍
Bingo, a GREAT post. Thank you again for your REAL LIFE experience, something all to frequently absent from these discussions. :clapping::clapping::clapping:
I agree that lovemysix writes well, but there is no absence of REAL LIFE experience in this thread. A number of posters here have poured out their hearts for us. Catholics can struggle enormously with NFP, stay true to Catholic teaching and still have REAL LIFE experience, can’t they Blacksword?

Also, thanks for trying to stay on topic during the thread. It didn’t work, but it was thoughtful of you nevertheless.
 
It is good to note that the Topic of this thread is:

“From your experence why does NFP feel better than contraception?”

(not what was your experience pro or con…etc…)
 
There is no ‘opposing side’ in a non-debate thread like this. The OP wasn’t asking for opinions on NFP, he was simply asking a question of 'pro-NFP’ers. I just wanted to point that out in light of the fact that there are so many other appropriate places to give personal views/opinions on controversial subjects, that your complaint is really a moot point.

I would appeal to your sense of courtesy on this one. 👍
It was not a complaint, but ok, I shall leave the thread. On one last note, a lot of the things I wrote were responses to people addressing me specifically and/or asking me questions - including the OP himself. So if you guys don’t want the thread to go a certain route, I would suggest to stop contributing to it going that way.

Good bye.
 
It was not a complaint, but ok, I shall leave the thread. On one last note, a lot of the things I wrote were responses to people addressing me specifically and/or asking me questions - including the OP himself. So if you guys don’t want the thread to go a certain route, I would suggest to stop contributing to it going that way.

Good bye.
It’s not thread hijacking that I find bothersome, it’s agenda-driven posting.

I don’t blame you for responding to other posters, I’d do the same.

As this thread winds down, I don’t think it makes make much difference if any of us leaves. If you feel you should though, good bye and God bless you. 🙂
 
Yes, John of Woking, it would be a sin of omission. I fear for the souls of so many priests and bishops who ignore this issue, or worse, tell penitents in confession to “use their conscience” in regard to ABC, regardless of whether the conscience is well formed or not.

It is good to speak the truth in love. Thank you for your clarity in speaking of this grave matter. It is a work of mercy.
Agreed. These priests Should be given a copy of Veritatis Splendor to meditate on. It is their duty to inform their flock’s conscience’s with truth. It reminds me of the saying of those seeking to rationalise dissent : “if at first you don’t succeed try another priest”
 
They are not completely different and I have no idea why you would say that.🤷

They are both the means of using the woman’s cycle to plan a family. One just happens to be a more precise, updated version.
I would said they are completely different because nowhere in an NFP class that I have been in did any instructor ever say that NFP and the Rhythm Method are the same thing. In fact, it was pointed out to me that they are completely different from one another, for the reason you cite - one is almost 100 percent accurate while the other cannot be relied upon for accuracy.
Back when I was on the pill, one of the reasons I was so resistant to NFP is because I was under the mistaken impression that it was the same thing as the rhythm method. When I actually opened my heart to the possibility of NFP, I was excited to learn I was mistaken. That’s why I pointed out that the rhythm method and NFP are completely different. There might be readers of these posts who are as clueless as I was at one time.
 
Some of us get a little ruffled when modern NFP is lumped together with Calendar Rhythm Method because the latter is not as effective for women who have irregular cycles. Therefore, it is synonymous with using no family planning at all. It has a bad rap. Calendar Rhythm does not take into account the current cycle the woman is experiencing, as no signs of fertility are used. There is also the possibility of excessive abstinence being built into Phase II with Calendar Rhythm.
👍
 
I’m surprised you’d compare debating with someone who has killed their child to debating with someone who avoids pregnancy using condoms instead of NFP. But I guess that’s not important. Moving on…
Actually, considering most abortions are a result of failed contraception, it’s not really that far fetched to compare the two. Increases in contraception are directly related to increases in abortions (and divorces too for that matter).😦
 
Its important for all the people outside of this discussion who may be looking for answers or at least that’s why its important to me to make sure the difference is known 😃 I have too many Catholic friends who don’t know what NFP is or even frankly how their reproductive systems work, not to care haha.
Exactly!
 
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