N
Nate13
Guest
No, you are only abstaining if both agree to abstain. You make a decision together. If they disagree on this, one of them is obviously going to feel used as you pointed out.
- Status
C
Calliso
Guest
By bond I mainly mean that it made me feel closer to my husband perhaps more connected more in tune with my husband does that make more sense? Not a bond in the sense though of you scratch my back I scratch yours.
N
Nate13
Guest
yeah I get it but sex shouldn’t just make you feel closer to your husband, it should be like you are one entity. You should have problems distinguishing where you start and he ends. I think we chalk “one flesh” up to be just a metaphor and not something we should strive to live out. I mean we should so embody the other person’s well being that we in a way move outside ourselves and our own well being is in a sense completely slaved to our spouses and vice versa.
D
Debora123
Guest
Ah, I see the double standard now.
(hint: you make a mutual decision with a condoms too)
C
Calliso
Guest
Yep exactly!Ah, I see the double standard now.
(hint: you make a mutual decision with a condoms too)
N
Nate13
Guest
haha look up Utilitarian versus Personalistic on the web. Find the definitions and how they are different from one another and tell me which one best fits your experiences.Ah, I see the double standard now.
(hint: you make a mutual decision with a condoms too)
C
Calliso
Guest
Hmm I admit I donlt truly ever remember feeling like on entity with my husband. To be honest I think realistically the best I can ever hope for is that either menopause will come very early for me or my husband will get that vascetomy I have asked.semipleaded with him to get and I will get to make love with my husband again. I think at this point the above while a goal to strive towards is something too far out of my reach.
N
Nate13
Guest
Vasectomy?Hmm I admit I donlt truly ever remember feeling like on entity with my husband. To be honest I think realistically the best I can ever hope for is that either menopause will come very early for me or my husband will get that vascetomy I have asked.semipleaded with him to get and I will get to make love with my husband again. I think at this point the above while a goal to strive towards is something too far out of my reach.
Scripture calls out against permanent sterilization directly. We can all debate whether condoms are bad, but there is a good case against permanent sterilization.Gn 1:27-28 (Gen 9:1, Gen 35:11) - be fruitful and multiply
Ps 127:3-5 - children gift from God, blessed is a full quiver
1 Chr 25:5 - God gave 14 sons and 3 daughters to exalt him
1 Chr 26:4-5 - God indeed blessed Obed-edom with 8 sons
Hos 9:10-17 - Israel is punished with childlessness
Ex 23:25-26 - blessings promised: no miscarrying, barrenness
Dt 7:13-14 - you will be blessed: no male or female barrenness
Gn 38:9-10 - Onan killed for spilling his seed on the ground.
Dt 25:5-10 - penalty for defying Levirate law: not death
Lv 20:13 - if man lies with man, put to death (wasting seed) Note: there is no similar penalty for lesbian action or relations between single man single woman (Dt 22:28-29)
Lv 20:15 - if man lies with animal, put to death (sterile sex)
Lv 20:16 - women lies with animal, put to death (sterile sex)
Lv 21:17-20 - crushed testicle is called a defect and blemish
Dt 23:1 - no one who is castrated shall enter the assembly
Dt 25:11-12 - punishment for potential damage to genitals
Rom 1:25-27 - natural function of women (=childbearing)
1 Tim 2:11-15 - women saved thru the bearing of children
Act 5:1-11 Ananias/Saphira slain-withholding part of a gift
Gal 6:7-9 - God is not mocked-accepting pleasure, denying fruit (this is a good one!)
Mt 21:19 , Mk 11:14 - Jesus cursed fruitless fig tree
Gal 5:20, Rv 9:21, Rv 21:8 - Greek pharmakeia = abortifacient potions
1 Cor 6:19-20 - body is a temple of the holy spirit, glorify God in body
C
Calliso
Guest
Ok you make a point a vascetomy probably would be sinful. Guess that leaves menopause then, Though to be honest as more time goes by the less and less interested in sex with my spouse I become I guess years of abstaining and a poor sex life before hand does that to a person. I mainly just mis the closeness and the bond I felt sometimes I feel more like roomates then husband and wife.Vasectomy?
Gn 1:27-28 (Gen 9:1, Gen 35:11) - be fruitful and multiply
Ps 127:3-5 - children gift from God, blessed is a full quiver
1 Chr 25:5 - God gave 14 sons and 3 daughters to exalt him
1 Chr 26:4-5 - God indeed blessed Obed-edom with 8 sons
Hos 9:10-17 - Israel is punished with childlessness
Ex 23:25-26 - blessings promised: no miscarrying, barrenness
Dt 7:13-14 - you will be blessed: no male or female barrenness
Gn 38:9-10 - Onan killed for spilling his seed on the ground.
Dt 25:5-10 - penalty for defying Levirate law: not death
Lv 20:13 - if man lies with man, put to death (wasting seed) Note: there is no similar penalty for lesbian action or relations between single man single woman (Dt 22:28-29)
Lv 20:15 - if man lies with animal, put to death (sterile sex)
Lv 20:16 - women lies with animal, put to death (sterile sex)
Lv 21:17-20 - crushed testicle is called a defect and blemish
Dt 23:1 - no one who is castrated shall enter the assembly
Dt 25:11-12 - punishment for potential damage to genitals
Rom 1:25-27 - natural function of women (=childbearing)
1 Tim 2:11-15 - women saved thru the bearing of children
Act 5:1-11 Ananias/Saphira slain-withholding part of a gift
Gal 6:7-9 - God is not mocked-accepting pleasure, denying fruit (this is a good one!)
Mt 21:19 , Mk 11:14 - Jesus cursed fruitless fig tree
Gal 5:20, Rv 9:21, Rv 21:8 - Greek pharmakeia = abortifacient potions
1 Cor 6:19-20 - body is a temple of the holy spirit, glorify God in body
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Couple A has serious reasons to avoid conceiving. She’s in her fertile phase, they sacrifice intimacy in order to avoid the possibility of conceiving. They love each other, but they understand that pregnancy is not something they could handle at this time. So they sacrifice what they would want now, for the good of the couple and for the good of the family.Ah, I see the double standard now.
(hint: you make a mutual decision with a condoms too)
Couple B has serious reason to avoid. She is in her fertile phase. They do not think that pregnancy is something they could handle. They want to be intimate, so they say, let’s use a condom.
Couple A. mutual decision to abstain.
Couple B. mutual refusal to abstain.
P
patrick127
Guest
My wife and I have had positive experience with NFP and it has nothing to do with our sex life. We have made a decision to live in a state of grace…or at least try our best to and to try and keep each other in a state of grace. That means no contraception. We don’t see artificial birth control as an option so any sexual tension is shared and understood as a sacrifice not to avoid sex but to help each other get into heaven. NFP is not easy, but if that is your only option it doesn’t seem like an obstacle.
We have a shared love of the Eucharist and it is this love that has really kept us honest adherents to NFP. I would rather be able to receive the sacrament on Sunday then have sex. I would rather use NFP then risk my (or our) soul by using contraception and not receiving the eucharist or worse using contraception and still receiving the Eucharist because of some justification that I or someone has given me that wrongly comes to that conclusion.
We have a shared love of the Eucharist and it is this love that has really kept us honest adherents to NFP. I would rather be able to receive the sacrament on Sunday then have sex. I would rather use NFP then risk my (or our) soul by using contraception and not receiving the eucharist or worse using contraception and still receiving the Eucharist because of some justification that I or someone has given me that wrongly comes to that conclusion.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Thank you for sharing. Good post!
C
Cara_Serrano
Guest
I was told that because of a medical condition, I would probably be able to get pregnant, but always miscarry. I felt trapped between a rock and a hard place (can’t use artificial birth control, can’t carry a baby to term). I tried NFP and ended up having miscarriages. I only agreed to it to avoid committing a mortal sin, but I really hated having to risk miscarriage and heartache every time we had sex. In my case, NFP linked sex with having dead babies, not with a closer marital relationship.
A
ahs
Guest
Was it NFP that did that? Because if NFP were used according to its proper function, you’d have been practicing abstinence during the fertile period and most likely not getting pregnant. For couples with very serious motivation to avoid pregnancy (as in your case of miscarriage), extra days of abstinence can be added as a buffer, For example, Phase I can be completely avoided (since most unplanned pregnancies with NFP occur due to Phase I activity), and in stead of only waiting until Peak+4, you can wait until Peak+5 or 6 to resume sex.
That would certainly limit available days, but it decreases your chances of pregnancy (and thus miscarriage) to virtually nothing, and keeps you out of Mortal Sin.
A
ahs
Guest
Couple A practices continence during the fertile period due to a just reason, which is approved by the Church that Christ established; that Church using the Authority handed to it by Christ Himself to make the decision that the said continence is in conformity with the objective criteria for morality. They remove neither the unitive nor procreative aspects from their marital act because there is no act taking place.
Couple B commits a grave offense against the marital act because their contraception prevents the 2-fold end of the marital act (unitive and procreative) by preventing the couple from presenting the entirety of themselves to their spouse during the act and by actively thwarting/frustrating the procreative nature of the act.
A
ahs
Guest
Beautiful post! It’s refreshing to see someone post how in love with the Eucharist they are.
C
Cara_Serrano
Guest
NFP does not work for everyone, even if used “according to its proper function.” I would have practiced total abstinence to avoid another miscarriage, but the marriage could not have survived, so I had to use it. Intermittent break-through bleeding due to the medical problems also made it tough to use NFP. This nightmare ended when I had to have an emergency hysterectomy a few years later. I was so relieved not to have to play Russian roulette with my body anymore. I don’t blame NFP for my problems, but it didn’t work for me.
A
ahs
Guest
Please don’t take this as me picking on you…I just want to understand better and bring some things to light that other couples in your situation may be experiencing…things that might not be as easy to see.
If your marriage could not have survived abstinence, are you sure there may not be other issues there that may have contributed? What I mean is, if a couple relies solely on intercourse to be the glue that holds them together, then God is not as much a part of the picture as He should be. If God is as big a part of the picture as He should be, then a couple should be able to sustain their marriage even through long periods of abstinence (although it would certainly be tough, in my opinion, and require alot of prayer and open communication).
When I see a statement that says a marriage could not survive if abstinence were practiced for a lengthy period (like in the example I gave above about the days/Phases for continence) or even with total abstinence, it suggestst to me that the couple’s relationship was more weighted to the physical side, leaving the spiritual/emotional sides unbalanced.
M
Muze
Guest
Thank you for conceding the point.
B
Bookcat
Guest
- Status