From Zenit: Condom Fallacies

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I thought this was a rather well balanced article. Getting boo’ed off the stage for talking about fidelity was enlightening.
Thanks for posting it.
Faced with such arguments about the failure of condoms and sex education campaigns, the reaction is often to call for more of the same. A typical example was the recent news from Australia, where it was found that 60% of Australian women who have unplanned pregnancies were using contraceptive pills or condoms…
…Epstein also criticized the organizations and the United Nations for playing down the role of infidelity in the spread of HIV/AIDS. She recounted her experience at an international AIDS conference in Bangkok, where researchers presenting evidence about the importance of fidelity in preventing infection were “practically booed off the stage.”…
 
I agree, its a good article. Its a shame that we can’t cross-post it to Social Justice so more people would see it.

Is anyone familiar with the author, Father John Flynn, LC? Googling his name turns up many Zenit articles which have found new homes on various websites. However, I couldn’t find a biography or CV for him. What order does he belong to?
 
I like the article because it mirrors what I have read on these fora regarding condoms in places like Africa. Those particular items are held out as an absolute must and almost a panacea while moral teachings are seen as pie in the sky and almost part of the problem.
 
I like the article because it mirrors what I have read on these fora regarding condoms in places like Africa. Those particular items are held out as an absolute must and almost a panacea while moral teachings are seen as pie in the sky and almost part of the problem.
Indeed – we had a UN worker from South Africa on here once, who was outraged when I pointed out that Botswana – where if the UN approach would work anywhere would work there – has a 40% AIDS rate now.

We went 'round and 'round, with her saying that no one ever claimed condoms were safe sex, just safer sex. When asked why they don’t work in Botswana, she said because people get drunk, or use drugs and have sex and don’t use them. And in the background a brass band was playing “Whoda Thunkit.”
 
Indeed – we had a UN worker from South Africa on here once, who was outraged when I pointed out that Botswana – where if the UN approach would work anywhere would work there – has a 40% AIDS rate now.

We went 'round and 'round, with her saying that no one ever claimed condoms were safe sex, just safer sex. When asked why they don’t work in Botswana, she said because people get drunk, or use drugs and have sex and don’t use them. And in the background a brass band was playing “Whoda Thunkit.”
That is the thread I was thinking about when I posted. It has come to a point where being against condom use is seen as equivalent to holding the earth is flat. They are now held to be modern medical science and infallible.

Why would anyone think it is justified to continue to act recklessly simply because latex barrier may work a certain percentage of the time while when it does not the consequence is death? Is it too much to ask to refrain?
 
That is the thread I was thinking about when I posted. It has come to a point where being against condom use is seen as equivalent to holding the earth is flat. They are now held to be modern medical science and infallible.

Why would anyone think it is justified to continue to act recklessly simply because latex barrier may work a certain percentage of the time while when it does not the consequence is death? Is it too much to ask to refrain?
All too often, people believe what they want to belive. Tell someone that using a condom will give protection is telling them what they want to hear. In Botswana, the UN apparently triggered a danse macrabe.
 
I don’t mean to sound racist, but I really do not understand the problem. Why is sexual continence so hard for these African people? I mean in the USA, we are not exactly chaste but I doubt 40% of the even sexually active, non-married crowd is promiscuous (i.e., multiple partners, frequent “risky” sex). There is probably a 15-20% “do anything to anything” group within sexually active non-married people, but serial monogamy is the norm here.

Are they all just jumping on each other like animals over there? :eek:
 
In many African nations, rape is almost expected. This condom campaign is a joke. The only thing that will prevent infection is a widespread social change in which Africans feel compelled to be monogamous and abstain from pre-marital sex. Although, one could say that the same thing needs to occur in America…
 
In many African nations, rape is almost expected. This condom campaign is a joke. The only thing that will prevent infection is a widespread social change in which Africans feel compelled to be monogamous and abstain from pre-marital sex. Although, one could say that the same thing needs to occur in America…
I suggest the first step is to stop telling people there is such a thing as “safe sex” (pardon me, “safer sex”) outside of a faithful marriage.

Second, recognize that things like STDs and out-of-wedlock pregnancies are not caused by lack of condoms or other technological miracles. They are caused by behavior. And to change behavior, we must hold people responsible for their behavior.
 
I don’t mean to sound racist, but I really do not understand the problem. Why is sexual continence so hard for these African people? I mean in the USA, we are not exactly chaste but I doubt 40% of the even sexually active, non-married crowd is promiscuous (i.e., multiple partners, frequent “risky” sex). There is probably a 15-20% “do anything to anything” group within sexually active non-married people, but serial monogamy is the norm here.

Are they all just jumping on each other like animals over there? :eek:
I am actually disgusted and disturbed by this statement. You start your statement by say you do not wish to be racist but you are scarcely hiding the racist nature of your statement. Perhaps you had better inform yourself of what is going on. When many African nations are torn by wars and that rape of women and children have become common place as war weapon I am shocked that the most you can ask yourself is how they are “all jumping on each other”. What happened to compassion and empathy?

ksanety.
 
I agree, its a good article. Its a shame that we can’t cross-post it to Social Justice so more people would see it.

Is anyone familiar with the author, Father John Flynn, LC? Googling his name turns up many Zenit articles which have found new homes on various websites. However, I couldn’t find a biography or CV for him. What order does he belong to?
Not familiar with him, but I’d expect that LC is Legionarries of Christ.
 
Are they all just jumping on each other like animals over there? :eek:
This racist remark is in itself a phallacy. Rape is part of the civil unrest other parts of the world as well, for example in the recent outbreaks of violence in the Balkan countries. It is interesting to me that in Iraq and Afghanistan we don’t hear much about rape by the warring factions, while in the Balkans a good part of the population was Christian and rape was endemic.

The other part of the story is that in many parts of the world, a woman is still a second class citizen, almost a non-person. Males, in that kind of society, have little compunction about using women for their “needs.” It is almost a better thing where the woman is still considered a chattel, one hesitates before using another man’s property.
 
This racist remark is in itself a phallacy. Rape is part of the civil unrest other parts of the world as well, for example in the recent outbreaks of violence in the Balkan countries. It is interesting to me that in Iraq and Afghanistan we don’t hear much about rape by the warring factions, while in the Balkans a good part of the population was Christian and rape was endemic.

The other part of the story is that in many parts of the world, a woman is still a second class citizen, almost a non-person. Males, in that kind of society, have little compunction about using women for their “needs.” It is almost a better thing where the woman is still considered a chattel, one hesitates before using another man’s property.
:eek: Methinks thou hast a log in thine own eye to deal with too!
 
:eek: Methinks thou hast a log in thine own eye to deal with too!
I do not understand what you are trying to say. I saw the part you bolded, but don’t understand why a woman is not better protected from rape if she is a chattel instead of a second class citizen with no rights of her own except those derived from a "protector’ like a father, brother, etc.? 🙂 .
 
PLEASE tell me you’re trolling. Please?

No? Try this. You seem to get the evil of racism, so it might surprise you to hear that an awful lot of mid 1800’s slave-owners made similar “white man’s burden” arguments about turning those poor ‘feeble-minded’ negroes out to fend for themselves when they had shelter and 3 square meals provided for them for life as chattel slaves.

I don’t suggest you make such suggestions at a NAACP rally, not would I make your ‘rape prevention’ suggestions in front of any women.

It is inherently beneath the dignity of the human person to be anyone’s chattel. If you don’t get that then you have no concept of human rights.
 
Not familiar with him, but I’d expect that LC is Legionarries of Christ.
Ah! Thank you! With that additional information to go on, I found a news report which mentions him attending a conference and yes, he is with the Legionaries of Christ. Many thanks.

I am still looking on more information on him, but now I have more with which to search. 🙂
 
I am actually disgusted and disturbed by this statement. You start your statement by say you do not wish to be racist but you are scarcely hiding the racist nature of your statement. Perhaps you had better inform yourself of what is going on. When many African nations are torn by wars and that rape of women and children have become common place as war weapon I am shocked that the most you can ask yourself is how they are “all jumping on each other”. What happened to compassion and empathy?

ksanety.
For-crying-out-loud, nothing she said was racist, misinformed, maybe, but not racist. What happened to your charity? Get over yourself.
 
I don’t mean to sound racist, but I really do not understand the problem. Why is sexual continence so hard for these African people? I mean in the USA, we are not exactly chaste but I doubt 40% of the even sexually active, non-married crowd is promiscuous (i.e., multiple partners, frequent “risky” sex). There is probably a 15-20% “do anything to anything” group within sexually active non-married people, but serial monogamy is the norm here.

Are they all just jumping on each other like animals over there? :eek:
Actually, this was addressed in the article.
In trying to find the causes of the high degree of infections in Africa, researchers found that a relatively high proportion of African men and women had simultaneous sexual relations with two or three partners. Compared to serial monogamy more common in Western countries the concurrent relationships greatly increase the risk of a rapid diffusion of sexual diseases.
The question is not inherently racist, just poorly worded.
 
PLEASE tell me you’re trolling. Please?No? Try this. You seem to get the evil of racism, so it might surprise you to hear that an awful lot of mid 1800’s slave-owners made similar “white man’s burden” arguments about turning those poor ‘feeble-minded’ negroes out to fend for themselves when they had shelter and 3 square meals provided for them for life as chattel slaves.

I don’t suggest you make such suggestions at a NAACP rally, not would I make your ‘rape prevention’ suggestions in front of any women.

It is inherently beneath the dignity of the human person to be anyone’s chattel. If you don’t get that then you have no concept of human rights.
No, I am not trolling. I do that only for fish from a boat. I am still trying to figure out why my remark is somehow an endorsement of women being chattels. All I was saying is that men who hold their wives as chattels would ordinarily not let their “property” be damaged by someone else. How is that an endorsement of ownership of women or slaves. :confused:
 
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