Fruit wine - Illicit or invalid matter

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peregrinus_sg

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I need someone with an understanding of Sacramental or canonical background to help me here… I know that wine used for Mass should be pure grape wine with no additives. Additives would at least make it illicit for Mass.

Unfortunately I know of a place that uses fruit wine for Mass. From what I understand, fruit wine is made from the fermentation of grape juice mixed with other fruit juice. So if what is labelled “fruit wine” (presumably with grape as a base) is used for the celebration of Holy Mass, is that fruit wine simply illicit matter, or is it entirely invalid matter? It’s not a hypothetical question, because I know of a place that is really using fruit wine, and I worry about the validity of the Masses being celebrated.

Thanks to anyone who can shed light on this definitively…
 
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I can’t see why the species of plant used to produce the wine changes its nature as ‘wine’.
 
This should answer both of your questions, but if I understand your question, OP the Mass is invalid. Lots of illicit things can happen within the context of Mass but the consecration of the bread and wine is what makes it a Mass and not a prayer service so anything irregular, matter, words of institution will make it invalid.
 
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This is from the General Instructions of the Roman Missal:
322. The wine for the Eucharistic celebration must be from the fruit of the grapevine (cf. Luke 22:18), natural, and unadulterated, that is, without admixture of extraneous substances.
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The reference (Luke 22:18) is to these words of Jesus at the Last Supper:
“for I tell you [that] from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
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I do not know the distinction between illicit and invalid, so I can’t comment on that point.
 
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Is this a “place” with a Catholic priest saying a Catholic Mass? If you know that he is using something other than pure grape wine, you should question him about it.
 
You seem uncertain about this when you write: ““fruit wine” (presumably with grape as a base).”

Check to see what it really is.
 
peregrinus_sg said:
So if what is labelled “fruit wine” (presumably with grape as a base) is used for the celebration of Holy Mass, is that fruit wine simply illicit matter, or is it entirely invalid matter?
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Fruit wine doesn’t even necessarily have any grape juice in it at all.

Since it’s the “fruit of the vine” (i.e., grape wine) that Jesus talks about, the Church prescribes that it must be pure grape wine, or else it’s invalid matter.
 
They use two varieties, depending on which chapel Mass is being celebrated. One simply says “fruit wine” with other words in a language which I cannot read. The other says it is a “fruit wine product” made from grapes and fruit juice.

My question is can fruit wine (if it has grapes as one of its base) be used validly or is it way off since it can’t even commonly be termed wine pressed from grapes that it is outright invalid matter.
 
Grapes are fruit. That is why this is rather unclear. Sacramental wine should be pure grape wine.
 
I recall reading that White Zinfandel, or any grape wine certified in California as being “pure”, was approved. (California has stringent requirements, with other states it is on a case by case basis). But I cannot find my source.
 
peregrinus_sg said:
They use two varieties, depending on which chapel Mass is being celebrated. One simply says “fruit wine” with other words in a language which I cannot read. The other says it is a “fruit wine product” made from grapes and fruit juice.

My question is can fruit wine (if it has grapes as one of its base) be used validly or is it way off since it can’t even commonly be termed wine pressed from grapes that it is outright invalid matter.
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If the label is in a language other than English, this raises the questions: What country are you in? What language do you speak? What I mean is that if you speak a different language, but you’re asking your question in English (which happens quite often here) people might completely misunderstand the situation. So I’m not questioning your grammar or anything like that, we just need to know.

If you’re in the U.S. if it’s made from any fruit or combination, it can legally be called wine.

It is absolutely required, and completely beyond any kind of dispensation or special circumstances, that the wine used at Mass must be grape wine in order to be valid matter for the Eucharist. Not just licit, but valid. Absolutely.

Now, having said that, any number of things might find their way into that wine. The Church allows for a minimum amount of chemical preservatives, for example. Another possibility is that an insignificant amount of something else might happen to get there—if the vintner harvests 10 acres of grapes, but 2 or 3 wild raspberries accidentally get caught up in the mix, that won’t affect validity. Sometimes other substances are used in the filtration process when the wine gets bottled. If that amount is insignificant, it doesn’t affect validity.

When it comes to wine that is intentionally made with other fruits, that enters dangerous grounds. A tiny amount will not affect the validity of the wine, but DOES make it illicit. The Church does not define how much fruit juice is acceptable and how much is not, to be valid. In order to be licit, it must be pure grape wine.

Again, keeping in mind that the Church does not define clear line between how much is valid and how much is not, generally speaking, anything in the U.S. that would be labeled “fruit wine” or “fruit wine product” would be immediately considered INVALID matter with no real need to go any further.
 
commenter said:
I recall reading that White Zinfandel, or any grape wine certified in California as being “pure”, was approved. (California has stringent requirements, with other states it is on a case by case basis). But I cannot find my source.
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Yes, I’ve “read that on the internet” as well.

Catholic practice just doesn’t work that way. There is no direct connection between state laws and canon law, so no one can say that “any wine” from a certain state is valid for the Eucharist.

This is one of those pesky internet legends. At some point in time, some bishop in California might have said that he leaves the matter to the priest’s own judgement to determine if the wine is valid or not, according to canon law. This is because there has been a longstanding custom in the US of specifically labeling wine as “altar wine” with ecclesiastical approbation. The bishop was simply saying that the priest can judge for himself, so long as he is actually applying canon law.

Here’s a link (from a reliable source) about California wine labels


Nowhere does the word “pure” appear on their website. I did a quick internet search for “California pure wine law” and the only results dealt with an 1800s tax stamp law. Not relevant.
 
Thanks FrDavid96.

English is one of my native language but I’m currently in another Asian country. One of the wines used is from Australia, and it’s labelled “fruit wine product”. So I guess it would be fair to say it should be invalid matter then…

The other is a Peter Vella Fresh White fruit wine, I can’t read the label of that one to figure out the country of origin.
 
peregrinus_sg said:
The other is a Peter Vella Fresh White fruit wine, I can’t read the label of that one to figure out the country of origin.
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Try copying what the label says – and using a translator like the Google translate. It should identify the language and translate into English.

The Peter Vella brand – looks to originate from California. Maybe – going through their site – you can p(name removed by moderator)oint- the wine in question

http://www.petervella.com/ourwines/about-our-wines/AboutOurWines.html

Here are some images of the PeterVella bottled wine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pet...7yYKHT1UBIMQ_AUICygC&biw=1528&bih=671#imgrc=_
 
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According to Thomas Aquinas, the true wine is grape wine. All other fermented fruit beverages are named “wine” because they resemble grape wine. The “fruit of the vine” aka grapes is valid matter
 
peregrinus_sg said:
Thanks FrDavid96.

English is one of my native language but I’m currently in another Asian country. One of the wines used is from Australia, and it’s labelled “fruit wine product”. So I guess it would be fair to say it should be invalid matter then…

The other is a Peter Vella Fresh White fruit wine, I can’t read the label of that one to figure out the country of origin.
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That’s what I mean. I’m not in Asia or Australia, so I don’t know how the words are used.

In the U.S. my initial reaction would be “not valid matter.”

On the other hand, in Asia, maybe the label wants to distinguish grape fruit (since grape is a fruit) wine from something like sake (which, I know is technically more a beer than a wine, but I hope everyone gets my point) or a beverage made from some other grain (or the famous Tibetan fermented yak’s milk).
 
Walking_Home said:
Peter Vella | About Our Wines
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It seems like their wines MIGHT be valid matter. No way to tell.

They do make a sangria, which is, with no hesitation whatsoever, certainly NOT valid matter.

The white one might be their “delicious white” which I would be very careful about. If the box says “we add fresh grape juice” which is often the case with sweeter wines, then it’s not valid matter.
 
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