Frustrated, gay - celibate

[chrysostim83]

Hi Bannan,

Thanks for replying. You brought up some really good points, and I just wanted to lay them down side-by-side with some of my thoughts on them.

I have an issue with this link, the very first portion of the abstract indicates that same-sex attraction is a “positive variation of human sexuality”. I could quote more from this source but I’ll cut to the chase, this document was not written by someone who is concerned with the Lord’s (name removed by moderator)ut on this subject.

I think in the context where the phrase “positive variation” occurs, it means there is nothing in homosexual attractions or behaviors that requires psychological treatment. (Notice how the “positive variation” language is contrasted with the fact that some gay men and lesbian women show up at the therapist’s office asking for a cure.) In addition to the context, overall it seems to me that the authors were trying stick to morally neutral ground, since their goal was not to get clients to give up on their values, but to help them live by them.

The authors do not advocate techniques used by NARTH because they believe that efforts to change your sexual orientation are “unlikely to be successful and involve some risk of harm”.

But this is not a mere belief that came out of nowhere: the authors arrive at it after reviewing the studies that have been done on a variety of techniques for changing sexual orientation. The evidence that these therapies work just isn’t out there (yet?).

Sure, you don’t have to align your sexual orientation to a godly alignment, but if you don’t then you will for the rest of your life fight with this temptation to sin, causing you far more harm than if you never tried in the first place.

This is your best point I think. It’s certainly one that bothers me from time to time, but I’m not sure how much difference it would make to change one’s sexual orientation, since, at least for the vast majority of men and women, the struggle for self-mastery goes on and on anyway (there’s something to that effect in the Catechism, 2342.)

By recommending this to a Gay layperson of our faith I feel you are doing him / her a disservice by making it easier to believe that his feelings towards members of the same sex will forever be set in stone.

I can certainly understand that. On the other hand, speaking as someone who has seen up close the kind of harm this therapy can cause, I think of myself as potentially helping the layperson in question avoid a whole world of unnecessary pain and anguish.

 

[chazk728]

The first thing you must understand is that you can be and will be in love. Through constant prayer you will receive the grace to be in love with Jesus. (Yes, to truly love him requires grace that we can get only through prayer.) This is infact what we are all called to do. But to love Jesus is not merely to profess him as your lord and saviour but to seek to serve him and follow his commandments. (he tells us - if you love me you will keep my commandments) Understand that the sacrifice he made for you on the cross is the ultimate expression of love. We are all called to make sacrifices in our own lives in order to show our devotion and love for him in return. Your sacrifice happens to be to forego intimacy with another human being. By offering this sacrifice to him you are showing a tremendous act of love for Jesus for which you will be richly rewarded. (we read in holy scripture that "eye has not seen and ear has not heard what God has in store for those who love him). Your reward will be not only in this life, but for eternity with him. You are already begining to see this by the mere fact that you feel fullfilled when you are doing God’s will while feeling empty when you move further away. When you see your choice to be celibate as a sacrfice and gift to Jesus as an expression of love for him, it will cease to be a source of frustration to you and become a source of joy. Read the book of James. “Count it all joy when you are faced with trials for the testing of your faith produces perseverance”.

Remember that what seems like a heavy burden now will ultimately prove to be the greatest blessing if you persevere. Jesus is calling you to enter into a loving relationship with him. Answer this call and you will know a happiness that few ever know. I will keep you in my prayers.

P.S. don’t forget that celibacy entails refraining from lustful activity even with yourself. If that makes the challenge greater so too will be the joy. May God Bless you

This is an incredible post. Thank you so much for sharing it with us - and giving hope to those who have same sex attraction.

 

[Bannan]

Thanks for the well put reply Chrysostim83,

I feel what you are saying is that changing sexual orientation or not really won’t make life that much easier, since the struggle for self mastery continues, and I completely agree with you there.

In fact there was a quote from Jesus in Luke 11:24-26 about a demon removed from a house coming back with 7 more demons, resulting in a condition worse than the first. For me the trials are always greatest when I strive to remove myself from sin, and it appears that Satan attacks me most when he feels he is loosing his stranglehold on my life.

As to a ‘cure’ to homosexual thoughts, I feel this is much the same as me asking to never look at pornography again. I would like to recieve some form of psychotherapy to cure me of the urge to view that material, but I also understand that my urge to do so stems from the previous sins of my life and that the cure comes from God alone.

This doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t resist sin though, and I think we both agree on this point. What I fear is that in this day and age, celibacy is an incredibly difficult task. Not a day goes by without some vision of a half naked woman in an advertisement entering my eyesight and tempting me, the same would be for those interested in men.

I have paid dearly for believing the following lie:
I am entitled to a good life and prosperity if I work at it.

The truth is, I’m not even entitled to the very air God is giving right now to type this message. In fact, since I am a lustfull man, I’ve no right to even pluck the straw from your eye since I’ve a log in my own. But he allows me to live today, so that I can have a chance at an eternity in his presence tomorrow.

I find it encuraging to realize how blessed I am in life, in that I haven’t had to suffer in a concentration camp. I haven’t had to march in the snow untill my feet froze solid, wondering if my family was alive and all the while wondering if what I was fighting for was worth it. I haven’t had to die on a cross (yet). Some people suffer their entire lives, and some have no life at all.

There are worse fates, and although I tend to be a bit of an extreemist, I wanted to shed light on the idea that our trials are minor compared to some. I believe that for the rest of your existance in this life you will be able to look at men lustfully if you choose to. God can bing peace into your life, he can fill the void and make it so that your urge to lust is simply a passing thought. You’ll always be able to return to sin, he won’t force us to be with him, but you don’t have to and the more you focus on what God has in store for you, the less room there is in your life for temptation. You won’t be able to focus on God so much that your healed completely, your not perfect yet, so for those times you fail, pray for God’s grace to fill the void.

Make no provision for the flesh. Take courage in your trials, and when you meet Jesus, hold your head high and be counted. I will pray for you, and please, pray for me. Thank you for the enlightening concepts you hold about homosexuality, I think I understand a little better now where you are coming from, and have more empathy because of it.

 

[Simon_James]

Dear Bloody Rose,

When I read your story, I felt that (for the most part) it was also mine. I am a gay Catholic living a life of celibacy for the love of God, and I have lived so into my middle age. One thing that helped me was writing about it. Recently, I posted my writings on a website as a resource to persons like you. You are invited to visit simonjamesonline.com to hear how I lived through many difficult years, and have no regrets today. Simon

 

[Flame4]

I don’t have SSA, but I just wanted you to know that I really feel for you. I can’t imagine carrying that burden. However I have had my own share of crosses. Although they aren’t the same as yours, I have had similar experiences of being frustrated, angry, sad, and lonely. I know that nothing I say will make all of this go away or even significantly decrease the pain.

However while I was struggling with my own problems I found it helpful to bring those burdens to Christ and offer them up to him in love. He gave us his suffering in love and we can respond by doing the same with our suffering. As well, we take away the lonely side of suffering- hence "con"solation, together in solance.
That doesn’t necessarily alleviate the pain. but it makes it meaningful. You might not be able to give yourself completely to another human being (through sexual intercourse), but you can give yourself to God in your suffering. It isn’t as appealing, but it will draw you to the ultimate source of love. The greatest love comes out of suffering.
I also find adoration helps as it allows you to share sufferings with God in a more tangible manner; it may help you.

As for temptation and guilt: We all sin, homosexual or not. What’s important is that you pick yourself up, take yourself to Christ, and try again. You may often feel downtrodden, but don’t give up. SSA is a heavy burden. The fact that you are trying is something great itself. Sometimes I wonder if anyone with SSA is willing to embrace the Church despite its teachings on homosexuality. The fact that you are gladdens me. Imagine how it gladdens the Lord!

Pray,pray,pray!- no matter how hopeless or poinless it seems.

I will remember you in my prayers. Take care and God Bless

 

[giasone]

Short and straight, being attracted to those of the same sex is a temptation from the devil.

You read St. Theresa the little flower, now read about the other Theresa of Avila.

She was taken into hell and was shown the the ugliest devils in hell are the one who tempt towards same sex attraction.

Say the rosary every day, go to confession weekly and receive Holy Communion every day in a state of grace and with your patience you will win your soul.

This isn’t rocket science but my making good use of the Sacrements and the rosary you will be able to overcome every obstacle on your journey to heaven. But you must want it and have the resolve to follow through. Start with the rosary, it is the prayer of the saints!

God Bless!

 

[djames99]

Hi BR, good to talk to you.

Don’t let yourself get down. You’ve got all the celestial realm backing you up. “Sex is overrated” the old saying goes, and it is. Move up to loftier things that God would have everyone crave for. Sex is a sensory drive that is of this world, designed to serve a noble purpose in holy marriage, then dies along with the substantial of this world.

Satan takes advantage subtly of this powerful drive by the acts of turning the will,experimentation and curiosity. He implants a substitute for an interest in the same sex in hopes it will open a door a bit wider. He reports the failure to God by supreme justice who relinquishes a proportionate grace that would typically assist the afflicted subject. So BR, it’s a sham and a very tricky, albeit powerful one too. A mirror is being held in front of you, which says,

“look this IS what you are, why be suspicious, enjoy the new you. I offer you this world, why want the next. I give you the delectable,disease, hatred and gifts of pleasure. Go further with occult marriage and adopting(sentencing) children and I will cause you to have good days of comfort until you die. I will then welcome you into my home.”

I’m going to tell you something that you may not believe…

Your not “gay” or any other label an ill secular world wants to stick on you. Satan wants you to think you ARE this way and hopes you accept the label. Your created in God’s image and are destined to judge angels. You are esteemed so much in heaven that God assigned an angel to protect you. That’s no pittance to have a God care this way. He even went further. He thought, “maybe if I tell them how I feel about this behavior, they will understand that I could not create them locked into a state they could not get out of, and they will know I don’t play tricks like the other does.” And so he gave us the holy books to spread the word.

So that’s great news. I esteem you and how can I not. I’m in the presence of a most wonderful creature who is designed by God to give the creator the benefit of the doubt. When they made you the mold was thrown out, period.

That’s not the end of the news. God decided to end this trick once and for all. He asked his Queen, the Blessed Virgin, to wipe out the impulse and intense drive of this temptation for those who show determination to rid themselves of this. She allows us to use her Rosary to pray for help. So now there have been cures. Church self help groups show successes, and some have gone on to have normal relations and married lives.

I’ve reached a point where I almost don’t want to be religious, that way I don’t constantly have to apply guilt and suppression towards various aspects of my life.

Of course. You notice you gave the method and the purpose at the same time. See, satan isn’t so smart after all. With you he must be having a tough time, nor does he like you dabbling in things that turn his stomach and knows will have you eventually having joyful days of peace and rapture.

*disconnected from God (and even hated) for a couple years, I still continued to pray/stay abstinent, etc. *

This is because your resolve is being tested, be happy. Devote yourself to the Rosary, the celestial heavens are rooting for you. Mary is holding her breath in anticipation, c’mon you gotta give a her some relief, OK?. Remember the fig tree, how Christ said that he is continuously saving from the axe, by bringing their case to the Father for yet one more chance so that they can prove themselves?. Be happy, your here, right!!, you have evidence of your worth. He hates the other one. Mary will test your sincerity which may take some time, (ecclesia call this the dry period) but that’s nothing for you right?, you’ve already moved into a life of spirituality, what’s resolve to you, you already bask in that now.

No, I think you will be OK. In fact your a fighter I know. You come off as someone who knows what’s up. Throw that mirror back at him, see who you really are, surround yourself with positive people, stay away from his helpers, those who have resigned themselves to this world. Get out of restricted spaces and dark corners. Force yourself to get out and socialize with the opposite sex with no motive, be yourself. Stay around mixed groups with the same honorable interests. Eventually things will move on if they are destined to. A spiritual director is a good idea. Don’t give up on confession and go to communion regularly.

Soup kitchens and bazars need help and you get to meet charitable people with a good heart. It is surprising the diversity of people that you can meet there. Excellent places to meet new people. BTDT

 

[rap1962]

This is in reference to the post by djames99:

This is perhaps the best, most inspirational and profound advice I have ever read or heard regarding how to confront and overcome not only this temptation, but all temptation to sin.

I hope many people read this, especially the member who started this thread.

God Bless you always djames99. You are clearly the beneficiary and recipient of many of God’s graces and you are kind to share these with the world.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Short and straight, being attracted to those of the same sex is a temptation from the devil.

You read St. Theresa the little flower, now read about the other Theresa of Avila.

**She was taken into hell and was shown the the ugliest devils in hell are the one who tempt towards same sex attraction. **

Say the rosary every day, go to confession weekly and receive Holy Communion every day in a state of grace and with your patience you will win your soul.

This isn’t rocket science but my making good use of the Sacrements and the rosary you will be able to overcome every obstacle on your journey to heaven. But you must want it and have the resolve to follow through. Start with the rosary, it is the prayer of the saints!

God Bless!

Which book was that in?

Hi BR, good to talk to you.

snip

I’m going to tell you something that you may not believe…

**Your not “gay” or any other label an ill secular world wants to stick on you. Satan wants you to think you ARE this way and hopes you accept the label. Your created in God’s image and are destined to judge angels. You are esteemed so much in heaven that God assigned an angel to protect you. That’s no pittance to have a God care this way. He even went further. He thought, “maybe if I tell them how I feel about this behavior, they will understand that I could not create them locked into a state they could not get out of, and they will know I don’t play tricks like the other does.” And so he gave us the holy books to spread the word. **

So that’s great news. I esteem you and how can I not. I’m in the presence of a most wonderful creature who is designed by God to give the creator the benefit of the doubt. When they made you the mold was thrown out, period.

That’s not the end of the news. God decided to end this trick once and for all. He asked his Queen, the Blessed Virgin, to wipe out the impulse and intense drive of this temptation for those who show determination to rid themselves of this. She allows us to use her Rosary to pray for help. So now there have been cures. Church self help groups show successes, and some have gone on to have normal relations and married lives.

I’ve reached a point where I almost don’t want to be religious, that way I don’t constantly have to apply guilt and suppression towards various aspects of my life.

Of course. You notice you gave the method and the purpose at the same time. **See, satan isn’t so smart after all. With you he must be having a tough time, nor does he like you dabbling in things that turn his stomach and knows will have you eventually having joyful days of peace and rapture. **

*disconnected from God (and even hated) for a couple years, I still continued to pray/stay abstinent, etc. *

This is because your resolve is being tested, be happy. Devote yourself to the Rosary, the celestial heavens are rooting for you. Mary is holding her breath in anticipation, c’mon you gotta give a her some relief, OK?. Remember the fig tree, how Christ said that he is continuously saving from the axe, by bringing their case to the Father for yet one more chance so that they can prove themselves?. Be happy, your here, right!!, you have evidence of your worth. He hates the other one. Mary will test your sincerity which may take some time, (ecclesia call this the dry period) but that’s nothing for you right?, you’ve already moved into a life of spirituality, what’s resolve to you, you already bask in that now.

No, I think you will be OK. In fact your a fighter I know. You come off as someone who knows what’s up. Throw that mirror back at him, see who you really are, surround yourself with positive people, stay away from his helpers, those who have resigned themselves to this world. Get out of restricted spaces and dark corners. Force yourself to get out and socialize with the opposite sex with no motive, be yourself. Stay around mixed groups with the same honorable interests. Eventually things will move on if they are destined to. A spiritual director is a good idea. Don’t give up on confession and go to communion regularly.

Soup kitchens and bazars need help and you get to meet charitable people with a good heart. It is surprising the diversity of people that you can meet there. Excellent places to meet new people. BTDT

Ever considered the possibility of it being concupiscence?

Where does it say people will judge the angels? Yes people are created in the Image of God. Labels are how people function: black, white; man, woman; heretic, orthodox; gay, straight, bi; Jew, Christian, Muslim; American, Brazilian, British. Labels get applied to us by others, sometimes we choose the characteristics that fit a label, sometimes we don’t; society will peobably pin the label “gay” on him because he falls into the box of those “predominantly or exclusively attracted to the same sex”, the Catechisms would use the term “homosexual person”.

 

[giasone]

Autobiography of St. Theresa of Avila - Volumes 1-4 - I think though it is now out of print.

I don’t believe anyone is born gay. I really don’t believe God would be so cruel as to impose that condition on anyone. I think it is something aquired as the person develops possibly as a result of being incorrectly handled by the parents, in particular the Father. Of course most gays will reject this because they just want to live out their desires. If they do though, they will end up in hell. Plus have a miserable and frustrated life. Most gays reject God because the bible condemns their lifestyle.

To overcome the gay feelings. Avoid the occasions of sin. (being near other gays) (anything impure on the tv etc) Stay close to God and strive for holiness, this is an obligation we all have. Attend the sacraments frequently.

Do not accept the label of being gay, this is something that society has brain washed you into thinking and is instigated by the devil.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Autobiography of St. Theresa of Avila - Volumes 1-4 - I think though it is now out of print.

I don’t believe anyone is born gay. I really don’t believe God would be so cruel as to impose that condition on anyone. I think it is something aquired as the person develops possibly as a result of being incorrectly handled by the parents, in particular the Father. Of course most gays will reject this because they just want to live out their desires. If they do though, they will end up in hell. Plus have a miserable and frustrated life. Most gays reject God because the bible condemns their lifestyle.

To overcome the gay feelings. Avoid the occasions of sin. (being near other gays) (anything impure on the tv etc) Stay close to God and strive for holiness, this is an obligation we all have. Attend the sacraments frequently.

Do not accept the label of being gay, this is something that society has brain washed you into thinking and is instigated by the devil.

It’s too cruel for God to do that, but not make people born blind and deaf, born without limbs or Down Syndrome? God doesn’t actively make people, sometimes there are hormonal or chromosomal mistakes in the womb that cause them to be born impaired in various ways.

Avoid gays? So avoid theatres and colleges/universities like the plague? Avoid anything impure on TV? So just avoid the TV except EWTN and Al Jazeera? Attend the Sacraments frequently? Uh duh.

Why do people attribute every little thing to Satan? Labeling and grouping people is a normal human thing (normal does not make it just).

 

[ringil]

Autobiography of St. Theresa of Avila - Volumes 1-4 - I think though it is now out of print.

I don’t believe anyone is born gay. I really don’t believe God would be so cruel as to impose that condition on anyone. I think it is something aquired as the person develops possibly as a result of being incorrectly handled by the parents, in particular the Father. Of course most gays will reject this because they just want to live out their desires. If they do though, they will end up in hell. Plus have a miserable and frustrated life. Most gays reject God because the bible condemns their lifestyle.

To overcome the gay feelings. Avoid the occasions of sin. (being near other gays) (anything impure on the tv etc) Stay close to God and strive for holiness, this is an obligation we all have. Attend the sacraments frequently.

Do not accept the label of being gay, this is something that society has brain washed you into thinking and is instigated by the devil.

Nothing subtle about your posts, eh?



BTW: I refute nearly the entirety of your thoughts here.

 

[rap1962]

It’s too cruel for God to do that, but not make people born blind and deaf, born without limbs or Down Syndrome? God doesn’t actively make people, sometimes there are hormonal or chromosomal mistakes in the womb that cause them to be born impaired in various ways.

Avoid gays? So avoid theatres and colleges/universities like the plague? Avoid anything impure on TV? So just avoid the TV except EWTN and Al Jazeera? Attend the Sacraments frequently? Uh duh.

Why do people attribute every little thing to Satan? Labeling and grouping people is a normal human thing (normal does not make it just).

Being born blind or deaf or with some other physical or mental disability is not a sin nor does it lead one to sin. They are crosses to carry, yes, but are not, and do not, in and of themselves give rise to sin. This is not the case with homosexual desires. Acted upon, they are sinful and therefore something that God would not CREATE. God allows us to be tempted by sin, he does not create us in such a way that we are sinners by design. So, if homosexuality is sinful, God would not create us to be naturally homosexual. If homosexuals are not created by God, it must be a learned behavior.

Get it?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Being born blind or deaf or with some other physical or mental disability is not a sin nor does it lead one to sin. They are crosses to carry, yes, but are not, and do not, in and of themselves give rise to sin. This is not the case with homosexual desires. Acted upon, they are sinful and therefore something that God would not CREATE. God allows us to be tempted by sin, he does not create us in such a way that we are sinners by design. So, if homosexuality is sinful, God would not create us to be naturally homosexual. If homosexuals are not created by God, it must be a learned behavior.

Get it?

Temptations are crosses to carry too. Man’s nature includes concupiscence however with the Fall humans lost original justification. Your argument that God would not create a person who is vulnerable to a particular type of sin is theologically null as God exercises his passive will in the creation of people, he allows it to happen he does not actively take part in it.

 

[giasone]

Dakota

Your ego surpasses your theological understanding. Isn’t the purpose of responding on here to help the original poster rather than behaving like a 5th grader?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota

Your ego surpasses your theological understanding. Isn’t the purpose of responding on here to help the original poster rather than behaving like a 5th grader?

I said rap1962’s argument was null and then said why it was null, there was nothing juvenile about it.

It is rather passé to accuse someone of behaving like a fifth grader.

 

[Dale_M]

At this point, I would note that this thread is two years old. According to her profile page, the OP has not logged into CAF since Dec. 2010.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

No baby is born a pedophile, no baby is born an adulterer, no baby is born a gambling addict. Neither are babies born with a sexual attraction toward anything. These things are formed during puberty and adolescence, and many factors and influences contribute to the psychology of same-sex attraction, not to mention the influence of the world which tells individuals to celebrate and be proud of immorality.

Sexual disorders are the result of making an obsession out of other people’s sexual organs instead of looking at the human being as a person. Men and women are persons, not objects, and the natural union of man and woman leads to the gift of a new human being.

All non-married people, regardless of age, are called to be celibate and chaste in life; it doesn’t mean it is easy. Sexual union between a man and a woman is a sacred bond, simply because the sexual act is intimately linked to the creation of a new human being. Sexual union makes us participants in the creation and new existence of a new man or a new woman. Thus, sex is a gift, but that gift from God comes with a great responsibility. Furthermore, a man’s seed is not intended for a contraption to be thrown into a garbage can.

A mere attraction to something is not a reason to act upon it. A man may be sexually attracted to women other than his wife, which, if he fed that attraction and let it turn into an obsession would lead to the sinful act of adultery.
http://imageshack.us/a/img163/7335/prayergrace.jpg

Temptations always begin as simple thoughts, which if not guarded against, turn into fantasies, that blossom into acts of the will. Once an act is committed, the next level of is that it can easily turn into a habit, and the habit turn into a very-hard-to-break addiction and life-long obsession. Christ described sin as slavery. But with God’s grace we are given the freedom and power to reject temptation and life where we are growing closer to God every day of our life.

No one is born with an addiction to gambling, yet many people are addicted and obsessed with gambling and have lost their home and family to it. Likewise, no child is born a pedophile, as no man is born a thief, an adulterer, or a fornicator. People today are attracted to committing all these things. A man who feeds his mind pornography will fill his mind with thoughts that will reap a moral disorder. And pornography always has an effect on the human mind, and it affects people differently, but always leads to an obsession with other people’s bodies and a desecration of the gift of sexuality.

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/2644/soul1w.jpg

Here’s an interesting video