M
margya
Guest
If you have chance, get hold of Fr. Donald Calloway’s conversion on DVD. It is called No Turning Back. He talks about how entered the seminary right after he joined the Church. It is excellent.
- Status
D
daughterofmary
Guest
Two years is not that long of a time and you can do amazing things in those two years to prepare. St. Therese continued to be put off and told to wait. In that time frame she prepared.
Have you ever thought of being involved with the Catholic Worker Movement? The Pro-Life Movement in your area? Doing work that needs to be done right where you are right now?
Be patient and trust God. Do not be frustrated.
**Let nothing trouble you.
Let nothing scare you.
All is fleeting.
God alone is unchanging.
Patience
Everything obtains.
Who possesses God
Nothing wants.
God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Avila**
L
ladybuggirl84
Guest
Patience and Obedience
This is what the life of a priest is about. If everyone else has to do it, so do you. I wouldn’t try to get out of the 2 year waiting period. It is there for a reason. Trust God, trust the Church, and trust those who will be your superiors once you enter. Use the time to work on your spiritual life, theology classes, and charity work. Use this time to touch the people you love and reach out to those who you will not have the chance to help once you start seminary. Above all, do not waste the beautiful time God has given you. He has set this before you for a reason. Figure out what it is.
You are wanting to be one of God’s servants, adapt the mindset of one.
I know it is frustrating, I will be praying.
This is what the life of a priest is about. If everyone else has to do it, so do you. I wouldn’t try to get out of the 2 year waiting period. It is there for a reason. Trust God, trust the Church, and trust those who will be your superiors once you enter. Use the time to work on your spiritual life, theology classes, and charity work. Use this time to touch the people you love and reach out to those who you will not have the chance to help once you start seminary. Above all, do not waste the beautiful time God has given you. He has set this before you for a reason. Figure out what it is.
You are wanting to be one of God’s servants, adapt the mindset of one.
I know it is frustrating, I will be praying.
O
OKCatholic
Guest
I know you’re frustrated, but the Church has to have prudence in whom it selects for formation in the priesthood. The main reason for the waiting period is to prevent the emotional high felt by converts from clouding their judgment concerning seminary. It is extremely expensive for a diocese to sponsor someone to attend seminary. My own archdiocese pays full tuition, room and board, health insurance and gives a small living stipend to all seminarians. They will also pay for some “good money” loans while you are in seminary (note: most diocese and religious orders will make you refund this money paid for loans should you leave seminary for any reason).
To answer you question more fully about particular diocese who waive the waiting period for the application, you could potentially find some that would. However, all dioceses require an applicant to reside within that diocese for two to three years before applying.
Don’t take it personal. The Church needs well formed priests. We can ill afford to open the gates just to fill positions. The priesthood is far to important to leave to chance and wishful thinking.
To answer you question more fully about particular diocese who waive the waiting period for the application, you could potentially find some that would. However, all dioceses require an applicant to reside within that diocese for two to three years before applying.
Don’t take it personal. The Church needs well formed priests. We can ill afford to open the gates just to fill positions. The priesthood is far to important to leave to chance and wishful thinking.
J
JReducation
Guest
I’m going to ask a question of the OP that has not been asked, but it was implied by Br. Dave.
How do you know that you have a call to be a priest?
The fact that one believes he or she has a call to the priesthood or to religious life does not make it so.
The call always comes through the Church. That can be the bishop for secular priests and through the religious superior for religious.
Even those men who join a religious community should beware that the community does not have to allow the ordination. The superiors can decide that the man has a vocation to the religious life as a Carmelite, Franciscan, or Dominican, but not a call to the priesthood. This confirmation does not come until after the person has made solemn vows. So now you’re a religious for the rest of your life, but your brothers say that you do not have a vocation to the priesthood. You are bound to obey and remain within the religious community until death and never be a priest.
Those who believe they have a call to be a priest, should know that the call always comes through the bishop or the religiouis superior and your brothers in community. The Lord moves you in that direction, but you don’t know if it is truly the Lord or just your own desire until it is confirmed by the appropriate authority.
I understand your sense of urgency. But one sign of a vocation is obedience as Christ practiced it, without murmuring.
Fraternally,
Brother JR, OSF
How do you know that you have a call to be a priest?
The fact that one believes he or she has a call to the priesthood or to religious life does not make it so.
The call always comes through the Church. That can be the bishop for secular priests and through the religious superior for religious.
Even those men who join a religious community should beware that the community does not have to allow the ordination. The superiors can decide that the man has a vocation to the religious life as a Carmelite, Franciscan, or Dominican, but not a call to the priesthood. This confirmation does not come until after the person has made solemn vows. So now you’re a religious for the rest of your life, but your brothers say that you do not have a vocation to the priesthood. You are bound to obey and remain within the religious community until death and never be a priest.
Those who believe they have a call to be a priest, should know that the call always comes through the bishop or the religiouis superior and your brothers in community. The Lord moves you in that direction, but you don’t know if it is truly the Lord or just your own desire until it is confirmed by the appropriate authority.
I understand your sense of urgency. But one sign of a vocation is obedience as Christ practiced it, without murmuring.
Fraternally,
Brother JR, OSF
T
tvknight415
Guest
Discerning a call to the priesthood is a process. It’s more than just saying I want to do this, when can I start. The church certainly wants more priests & religious, but she isn’t about to just throw open the doors of the seminary and let anyone right in to study. They still want quality over quantity.
Even if you were to start discernment right now (and without any waiting periods), the diocese still has to accept you as a seminarian before you head off to seminary. That is a process in and of itself. From my experience when I went through discernment (which was 10 years ago, and ultimately I did not go to seminary), I had several meetings with our vocation director, with reflection time in between. For me, this lasted about 6 months. As you progress through this, you will go through psychological testing (not because anyone thinks you’re crazy - they use it to assess your personality, make sure you don’t have any latent ‘issues’ that could conflict with priestly ministry, and could handle the priestly life). Then, you’ll have to formally submit an application, be reviewed by a diocesan panel, and have a good chat with your bishop before acceptance. Likely, they only meet once or twice a year to consider people (at least ours did, once in December and once in April). Then, you’d head off to the seminary. Realistically, you would probably not start this fall anymore, but the following, so you’re already half-way through the waiting period anyways. Once there, you would have to do a certain amount of pre-theology work unless you already have a degree in it, as foundational coursework. Once that’s done (which could be 1 year or 2), you’d formally enter the seminary itself and study for the priesthood.
If you are called to the priesthood, your sense of calling will not go away, and only become stronger and more clear, through the two years of waiting. If you are not called, then the sense of calling will fade. Either way, just going through the discernment process will teach you a lot about yourself and your walk with God. I know it strengthened my faith and improved my prayer life to just go through the process, and I am forever grateful that I did.
Even if you were to start discernment right now (and without any waiting periods), the diocese still has to accept you as a seminarian before you head off to seminary. That is a process in and of itself. From my experience when I went through discernment (which was 10 years ago, and ultimately I did not go to seminary), I had several meetings with our vocation director, with reflection time in between. For me, this lasted about 6 months. As you progress through this, you will go through psychological testing (not because anyone thinks you’re crazy - they use it to assess your personality, make sure you don’t have any latent ‘issues’ that could conflict with priestly ministry, and could handle the priestly life). Then, you’ll have to formally submit an application, be reviewed by a diocesan panel, and have a good chat with your bishop before acceptance. Likely, they only meet once or twice a year to consider people (at least ours did, once in December and once in April). Then, you’d head off to the seminary. Realistically, you would probably not start this fall anymore, but the following, so you’re already half-way through the waiting period anyways. Once there, you would have to do a certain amount of pre-theology work unless you already have a degree in it, as foundational coursework. Once that’s done (which could be 1 year or 2), you’d formally enter the seminary itself and study for the priesthood.
If you are called to the priesthood, your sense of calling will not go away, and only become stronger and more clear, through the two years of waiting. If you are not called, then the sense of calling will fade. Either way, just going through the discernment process will teach you a lot about yourself and your walk with God. I know it strengthened my faith and improved my prayer life to just go through the process, and I am forever grateful that I did.
M
Middleman
Guest
Making a lifetime commitment to a Catholic vocation is a huge decision. I’m glad there is a period of discernment like this. 
J
JReducation
Guest
Just to piggy-back on this. . . if you chose to enter a religious community you would go through the same discernment process. When you are admitted, you are admitted as a candidate. The candidate or aspirant goes through a Come See period of six months. Afterward he is admitted as a postulant for a year. If the community agrees that he should begin his formation for religious life, he enters the novitiate. The novitiate can last from 12 to 24 months. At the end of the novitiate the novice makes vows for three years. During those three years he attends graduate school. After three years the community decides if the young religious has a vocation to the religious life. They may demand that he renew vows for another temporary period from one to three more years. At the end, the religious may be allowed to make perpetual vows. Then he begins the journey toward the priesthood, if the religious in his community feel that he has a calling to the priesthood and if they want another priest in their community. They can deny the person’s request to become a priest, as I said above, but he is bound to religious life until death.
There you have it. It’s a long journey.
Fraternally,
JR
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Also understand that what is laid out here by JR is very basic, each religious order/community might have a variation on this formation.
Some do not have postulancy, some do not have candidacy, others have variations on the temporary vows and what one does while they are in them.
But in a nutshell it is pretty close as laid out.
I would say that we have provided some good advice and the original poster, nsper7, has not replied in many days though he has been active in other threads. We should let him respond to what we have said so far or let the thread die as he seems not to be interested in what we have to say any longer.
M
Majobe
Guest
Hi
I am sorry N7 for your frustration.I pray God grants you the patience to carry on.Rules are rules hey ,please don’t be angry .God has a plan for everything that happens in our lives,Remember??.Please consult with your Vocations director maybe they will have a plan on how to kill the two years.
Keep Praying
I am sorry N7 for your frustration.I pray God grants you the patience to carry on.Rules are rules hey ,please don’t be angry .God has a plan for everything that happens in our lives,Remember??.Please consult with your Vocations director maybe they will have a plan on how to kill the two years.
Keep Praying
J
JReducation
Guest
This is not for the OP, because as Br. David has said, he has not been seen in these here parts for several days. This is for those who may be lurking around and want to learn more.
It’s not so much as rules being rules, because there are provisions in canon law and in the constitutions of religious communities for exceptions to rules.
There is a greater issue here that often goes unexamined by people who post on vocation threads. We have a tendency to assume that everyone who says they want to be a priest or a religious brother or sister has a vocation and we jump to encourage them.
Encouragement is a good thing, as long as it is balanced with reality testing.
THE BIG RULE IS . . .
No one has a vocation to religioius life or to the priesthood if the legitimate authority says that they do not have it, not matter what they feel or how many visions they have had. This is a law of the Church.
For secular priests the bishop is the final voice on whether one has a vocation to the diaconate and the priesthood.
For religious, the religious community, in a vote, is the final voice to decide if one has a vocation to be a religious and a priest. That vote can be vetoed by the major superior.
Vows and ordinations without the voice of Christ, expressed through these, and only these, figures of authority are illegal.
While we should encourage vocations to the preisthood and religious life. We must also raise the question, how do you know that you have a calling? Don’t tell me that you have a feeling. That does not sell well in the Catholic Church. When it comes to discernment of a vocation, the Catholic Church and Rabbinical seminaries are probably much more rational than Protestants. They rely heavily on reason and observation before welcoming someone.
We should help people understand that they will be subjected to heavy scrutiny and ask them if they are ready for this, because it can be painful.
Let’s encourage people to explore if they have a vocation. That’s better than allowing someone to believe that they have one, because they feel they do.
I know that my community makes it very difficult for a man to reach final vows. No one is allowed to enter wanting to be a priest. We always tell young men that they do not have to be religious to be priests. Then we refer them to clerical institutes or the diocese of their choice. We only ordain as many men as we need for the internal needs of the community. Other religious congregations and orders have the same policy.
Those who come to the vocation sub-forum should understand what’s ahead so they are not disappointed by all of the hurdles. We do not want people to be disappointed. We want people who are willing to give it a shot.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
It’s not so much as rules being rules, because there are provisions in canon law and in the constitutions of religious communities for exceptions to rules.
There is a greater issue here that often goes unexamined by people who post on vocation threads. We have a tendency to assume that everyone who says they want to be a priest or a religious brother or sister has a vocation and we jump to encourage them.
Encouragement is a good thing, as long as it is balanced with reality testing.
THE BIG RULE IS . . .
No one has a vocation to religioius life or to the priesthood if the legitimate authority says that they do not have it, not matter what they feel or how many visions they have had. This is a law of the Church.
For secular priests the bishop is the final voice on whether one has a vocation to the diaconate and the priesthood.
For religious, the religious community, in a vote, is the final voice to decide if one has a vocation to be a religious and a priest. That vote can be vetoed by the major superior.
Vows and ordinations without the voice of Christ, expressed through these, and only these, figures of authority are illegal.
While we should encourage vocations to the preisthood and religious life. We must also raise the question, how do you know that you have a calling? Don’t tell me that you have a feeling. That does not sell well in the Catholic Church. When it comes to discernment of a vocation, the Catholic Church and Rabbinical seminaries are probably much more rational than Protestants. They rely heavily on reason and observation before welcoming someone.
We should help people understand that they will be subjected to heavy scrutiny and ask them if they are ready for this, because it can be painful.
Let’s encourage people to explore if they have a vocation. That’s better than allowing someone to believe that they have one, because they feel they do.
I know that my community makes it very difficult for a man to reach final vows. No one is allowed to enter wanting to be a priest. We always tell young men that they do not have to be religious to be priests. Then we refer them to clerical institutes or the diocese of their choice. We only ordain as many men as we need for the internal needs of the community. Other religious congregations and orders have the same policy.
Those who come to the vocation sub-forum should understand what’s ahead so they are not disappointed by all of the hurdles. We do not want people to be disappointed. We want people who are willing to give it a shot.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
T
timotheousmaxim
Guest
It is simply improper to have blanket waiting periods. Each person is different. I know many converts who know significantly more and are far more spiritual than many life long catholics who do not have to wait and are mature enough not to be “too exicted” about conversion. Which to imply that everyone that converts has this “excited” level and therefore is incapable of proper thought is also extremely Cathlocentric. This also makes the outside world look at this as Cathlocentric; only if you were born into the church or been a member long enough are you worthy, regardless of the level of spirituality or understanding. Thank goodness Jesus, Peter, Paul, and thousands after, for example, did not do this, as the first, immediate converts were so successful as leaders in the church. And I am glad God does not judge us this way, by time frame, instead of who and where we are in our spiritual lives. We need the enthusiastic converts that have that significant background and we need to stop being Cathlocentric about so many things. This is why so many people I know do not convert and why so many have left the church. I hear it all the time even with the use of our words, a lifelong Catholic who could only dream of knowing as much as a new convert, and not even close to the same spiritual level, calls the new convert a “newbie”, or “neophyte” or just by general attitude treats the convert as not as good as me the “life-long” Catholic. After, all as long as you “meet this requirement” you are OK, regardless of your level of development. Again how arrogant, whether you have been a member all your life or not is not the gage of spirituality or knowledge. This is simply ridiculous and leads to those high levels of dissatisfaction with the church and as recent studies have shown high levels of conversation to other churches where this type of centrism does not occur.
D
dans0622
Guest
Hi nsper7,
There is no Church-wide rule other than this, from the Code of Canon Law: "Can. 1042 The following are simply impeded from receiving orders:
…
3: a neophyte unless he has been proven sufficiently in the judgment of the ordinary."
This, as it says, is regarding ordination and not entrance into a seminary.
In the United States, from the Program for Priestly Formation:
“67. Especially careful screening should also be given to applicants who
are recent converts to the Catholic faith or who have lapsed in the practice
of their faith and have recently returned. It is advisable that at least two
years pass between their entry into the Church and their acceptance into
a seminary program.”
So, this is the recommendation. In the end, it is up to the bishop.
As others have said, you need to have certain course-work completed before getting into “major seminary,” properly speaking. The time you have could be used in getting all the academic foundation finished, in addition to other things.
Dan
P.S. And, to Timotheousmaxim, I hope you are pleasantly surprised that there is no “blanket waiting period.” And, there are many more requirements than just being Catholic for a couple years. The PPF I mentioned above is a prime example. usccb.org/vocations/ProgramforPriestlyFormation.pdf
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
There is no “blanket” waiting period. Each diocese and religious order/community can waive this as it is a matter of discipline.
Having said that though. It is a good thing to have in place to remind us that there can be a case of zealousness that follows a conversion that may not last and also that a convert needs to actually work within the Church before moving on.
There is a requirement that many (if not all) dioceses and religious orders/community have about working within a parish/ministry before completing the application process. This goes to what I have alluded to and what JR has spelt out explicitly about having a call within the Catholic Church.
You might not like this but this is how it is.
T
timotheousmaxim
Guest
I already knew that it is in reality up to a particular bishop. But what has happened, as with RCIA, is that many just “blanket” everyone to make it easy for them. For example the RCIA process has similar rules, relating to the Christian and knowledge background of the convert so that they do not need to go through the entire RCIA process, but what has happened with the RCIA recommendations is, because people chose the recommendations that what they want out of convenience, that almost everyone is sent through the entire RCIA process, and this is not what the original RCIA process recommends for those “advanced” in Christianity and knowledge, although it is done. I know many highly “advanced” individuals who left RCIA and hence the church because they are in RCIA going over extreme basics for a year with teenagers. I know what you are going to say “then they should be in the church if they can’t sit through that”. Again, how arrogant and this is in no way the loving attitude of Christ. So instead of admitting there is an issue we just keep doing the same thing and wondering why so many leave the church and so few convert. It is therefore arrogant to tell a convert that they need to wait two years without adequate analysis of their history and background when it is in reality up to the Bishop. In other words, you do not have the right to make that decision. And in most cases those who feel they can make that decision are those who were “born” into the church (you know the “elect”) or those that have been in the church for a while. This is what I mean by Cathlocentrism. And believe me, it is highly pervasive in the church and turns off many a convert.
G
Godfollower
Guest
I’m afraid you misunderstand. Just because you’ve been a lifelong Catholic does not mean you’ll be accepted into a seminary. There are many requirements that must be met before you can step onto the path to priesthood.
Remember, the priesthood isn’t just some job you can take because you’re a warm body willing to do the work involved. It’s a sacred calling, and it should be limited to those who can best fulfill the requirements of the vocation. To say that anyone who has been around a long time can be a priest, “regardless of your level of development,” is simply incorrect.
As for the term “neophyte,” it simply refers to one who is new to the faith. There is nothing derogatory about the term. The Church has been around for 2000 years; it is impossible to believe that someone who went through a six- or nine-month RCIA class is now ready to lead the Church.
And as for the waiting period, it is a long, venerable tradition in the Church:
1 Timothy 3:1-10.
Let me ask you this: Suppose I’ve studied the military my entire life and know everything there is to know about it – I can debate military tactics with the best of them, and there is no military subject about which I cannot talk at length with knowledge. But I’ve never been in the military. If I enlist, can I start off as a general?
Should a brand-new graduate of medical school – one who has spent lots of personal time studying surgery, taking extra rotations observing surgery, and so forth – be made chief of surgery at Johns Hopkins?
Should a brand-new lawyer, fresh from being sworn in after passing the bar exam, take over as chief litigation counsel for the Justice Department?
There’s something to be said for experience. A priest – whose job will by definition include leading lay Catholics who are struggling with the requirements of their faith – should have some experience as a member of the faithful before joining the seminary.
T
timotheousmaxim
Guest
Who said anything about that. That my friend is obvious. “Just because you’ve been a lifelong Catholic does not mean you’ll be accepted into the seminary.” And this basically proves my point, just because you are a lifelong catholic does not automatically make you worthy and just because you are a convert does not automatically make you unworthy. Even if that automatic unworthiness is for two years.
Again that is obvious and I would never say that this is the only requirement in fact your reading that into my response implies that you have not thought out very valid arguments to refute my actual opinions.
I beg to differ. In definitive terms you are correct, but just as the RCIA recommendations get ignored for the sake of convenience members have utilized the “neophyte” term in a demeaning way on many occasions.
My point exactly. Just because someone has been a member of the church all their lives and almost never participated in anything or took their spiritual life at all seriously, never picked up a single book, never studied any history of the Church is not ready to “lead the Church”. Which is why they go to seminary for up to eight years. Eight or Six years before they begin to “lead the Church” whether a lifelong member who knows nothing of the Church or its theology, history, or his spirituality or a convert who attended mass dedicatedly for six years before finally converting and has read countless books, did countless research on the Church, and was involved in every thing the Church offered.
Please take a look at Church history because your statement not correct.
Again, I have answered this argument. Lifelong members can’t lead the church either, that is why they go to seminary. And by using this argument you might appear arrogant by showing that only Catholics have been given gifts and abilities by God to lead. And that a person that has been previously greatly blessed by God with abilities and knowledge before joining the church is still less than the guy who knows noting of the church or leadership even though he attended his entire life. Therefore this line of reasoning is very invalid.
Again, with this argument, it is very invalid and does not relate to this issue at all. Of course not, that is why even 18 year old seminarians spend 8 years in seminary before they get out “to lead”
I agree and eight years in seminary gives a great deal of experience in this area. But again you focus on the “born” or “life-long members” and ignore the converts. A convert priest would be able to most definitely help those who are struggling with the requirements of their faith. Your argument then related to seminarians should go something like this; just because a seminarian goes to eight years of seminary doesn’t mean he is ready to be Bishop. Just like someone just joining the military can’t be general without training, or a recent medical graduate can’t be made Chief of Surgery or a new lawyer can’t be chief litigation counsel. Which why they all need more training, just as a priest does before he can be a priest or a Bishop for that matter.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
True, RCIA is really only for those who are unbaptized. That is what RCIA means, it is the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. But due to the lack of resources for individually tailored classes it is used for almost everyone.
For me this comes down to obedience. I think this is one of the most important virtues (and I do not think this because I am a religious who is under vows) for everyone. It seems that many think they should be treated differently than everyone else yet due to the lack of resources almost everyone is lumped into the same groups.
Be obedient. If a new Catholic (neophyte) can not accept this then in my opinion there is a matter of obedience that needs to be looked at closely.
A
Angel_Bradford
Guest
I know the 2-year waiting period may seem unreasonable to you now, but may I make a suggestion? I don’t know what type of degree you have, but, if you don’t have the required number of hours in Philosophy, you will be rerquired to take those classes prior to be admitted to seminary. I would suggest that, if you don’t have those hours, that you use the two years to get your degree in Theology or Philosophy, then when the two years is up and you’re accepted, you can enter the seminary program without delay. Just my suggestion. God bless and Good luck!
G
Godfollower
Guest
No, I’m not defending lifelong Catholics as somehow better than recent converts. In fact, I agree that a priest who had converted to Catholicism is admirably situated for helping Catholics (converts or not) who have issues with their faith. All I’m saying is that there should be a waiting period for the seminary; if you’re a convert to the faith – or a lifelong Catholic who lapsed and recently returned – you should spend some time “in the trenches” as a lay Catholic before joining a seminary.
The problem with converting and immediately joining the seminary is that you’ll have no experience in the pews. The life of a seminarian is a rigid one, spent full time in the study for the priesthood. A convert who immediately joins that life will have no experience as a layman in the Catholic Church. I don’t like that idea.
I’m not arguing that priests should all be “cradle Catholics.” In fact, I contend the opposite: priests should come from all walks of life – cradle Catholics, converts, second-career priests, etc. But, in general, converts and “returners” should spend time as laymen before joining the seminary. If you want to spend those two years (or whatever period your bishop requires) studying theology or otherwise preparing for the seminary, great. But spend that time as a layman, not as a seminarian.
- Status