Frustrated with lapsed spouse

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AClaire11

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Before everyone jumps on me for marrying a lapsed cradle Catholic: we were both lapsed when we met, and I only started going to Mass again after we were married. I am confident that God wanted me to marry him, and I’m almost positive that I wouldn’t have come back to the Church if I hadn’t. (I’ve seen too many threads where people just comment, “Well, why did you marry him, then? This is what you get.”)

We’re working on getting our marriage convalidated and we go to Mass every Sunday together, even though I’ve told him that he doesn’t have to accompany me if he feels forced. He always just says, “No, I want to be with you,” and comes along. But it feels like every Sunday, there’s a fight. Sometimes it’s my fault, because he insists on the earliest Mass and I am not a morning person. But then at Mass, he purposefully says the older translation of the Creed to annoy me (he’ll read the parts that are the same off the laminated sheet, so no, I’m not being paranoid.) And he always makes these COMMENTS. He’ll complain about something like the Holy Water fonts being full during Lent (his home parish did that stupid sand thing), or say something obnoxious. And it won’t be a passive comment; he’ll say it in a really combative way, like he’s trying to get a reaction. And he does.

Today I was so happy, because he actually crossed himself with Holy Water and went up to communion with me and sang. I thought maybe something had changed. But then in the car, he said he was annoyed because he went up by accident and by the time he noticed, it was too late to leave the line without looking weird. Then he said, “Do you know what my favorite part of the Mass was?” “What?” “Leaving.” So then we argued, and I went into another room and cried when we got home. Stuff like this makes me doubt our marriage and feel awful. Today it got to the point where I wish he wouldn’t even come to Mass with me. I don’t know what to do.
 
he’s being passive aggressive so just flat out tell him you are not going to mass with him anymore because of his behavior.

Go by yourself.
 
I do sympathiize! It must be so hard to be missing the unifying bond of religious life.

Here is a quote I find helpful:

“You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to.”

Arguing every Sunday is not a good way to honor the Lord’s day or your marriage. You know he is going to say these things. You know he is trying to get to you. Don’t fall for it! I can’t see telling him he can’t go to Mass, but that’s because just maybe he will receive some revelation while there that will cause him to join you in a real way. But, don’t respond to his baiting!

Another image that helps me because I tend to giggle to myself rather than get angry is this one.

Picture you and your husband playing tug of war with a long rope, you pull each other back and forth trying to gain the upper hand, but it continues on and on and on… JUST LET GO! (Picturing my “opponent” planted on his bottom is what alleviates my annoyance! 😃 ) He cannot fight alone. Talking just tosses him more ammunition. He will react poorly the first few times you do it and pull in all his reinforcements to try to finally get a rise out of you. DO NOT GIVE IN!

Perhaps after a time he will be ready to join in an adult conversation about why he is so opposed to what you are doing.

BTW, all he had to do once caught in the line for communion was to cross his arms over his chest. Father would have blessed him and he would not have sinned by taking communion when he shouldn’t.
 
chefmomster2 said:
I do sympathiize! It must be so hard to be missing the unifying bond of religious life.

Here is a quote I find helpful:

“You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to.”

Arguing every Sunday is not a good way to honor the Lord’s day or your marriage. You know he is going to say these things. You know he is trying to get to you. Don’t fall for it! I can’t see telling him he can’t go to Mass, but that’s because just maybe he will receive some revelation while there that will cause him to join you in a real way. But, don’t respond to his baiting!

Another image that helps me because I tend to giggle to myself rather than get angry is this one.

Picture you and your husband playing tug of war with a long rope, you pull each other back and forth trying to gain the upper hand, but it continues on and on and on… JUST LET GO! (Picturing my “opponent” planted on his bottom is what alleviates my annoyance! 😃 ) He cannot fight alone. Talking just tosses him more ammunition. He will react poorly the first few times you do it and pull in all his reinforcements to try to finally get a rise out of you. DO NOT GIVE IN!

Perhaps after a time he will be ready to join in an adult conversation about why he is so opposed to what you are doing.

BTW, all he had to do once caught in the line for communion was to cross his arms over his chest. Father would have blessed him and he would not have sinned by taking communion when he shouldn’t.
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That is why I’m unsure if I should tell him not to come next Sunday…him dragging me to church one weekend is what brought me back in the first place! He sees himself as “culturally Catholic” or something. I don’t get it. He dragged me in the first place, and then when I started believing again, he got mad at himself for putting it in motion. It’s bewildering. All the same, I don’t know how much my mental health can take. I suffer from enough stress due to my anxiety disorder without him being a jerk.

That’s definitely good advice for arguments in general, though. I’ll use it the next time he tries to start something about politics!
 
This happened with my DH way back when he was an agnostic. It was very frustrating. I am pleased to report that he did find his way back to the Church whole-heartedly, eventually.
Pray for patience, my dear. I will pray for you.
 
I like the quote about not having to attend every argument you are invited to. I have a tween daughter–that is very important!

AClaire11 said:

“We’re working on getting our marriage convalidated and we go to Mass every Sunday together, even though I’ve told him that he doesn’t have to accompany me if he feels forced. He always just says, “No, I want to be with you,” and comes along. But it feels like every Sunday, there’s a fight. Sometimes it’s my fault, because he insists on the earliest Mass and I am not a morning person. But then at Mass, he purposefully says the older translation of the Creed to annoy me (he’ll read the parts that are the same off the laminated sheet, so no, I’m not being paranoid.)”

I think I’d say helpfully, “The translation is different now, honey” and leave it at that.

“And he always makes these COMMENTS. He’ll complain about something like the Holy Water fonts being full during Lent (his home parish did that stupid sand thing), or say something obnoxious. And it won’t be a passive comment; he’ll say it in a really combative way, like he’s trying to get a reaction. And he does.”

I’d say evenly, “Not every parish does that, honey.”

It’s all in the tone.
 
AClaire11 said:
Before everyone jumps on me for marrying a lapsed cradle Catholic: we were both lapsed when we met, and I only started going to Mass again after we were married. I am confident that God wanted me to marry him, and I’m almost positive that I wouldn’t have come back to the Church if I hadn’t. (I’ve seen too many threads where people just comment, “Well, why did you marry him, then? This is what you get.”)

We’re working on getting our marriage convalidated and we go to Mass every Sunday together, even though I’ve told him that he doesn’t have to accompany me if he feels forced. He always just says, “No, I want to be with you,” and comes along. But it feels like every Sunday, there’s a fight. Sometimes it’s my fault, because he insists on the earliest Mass and I am not a morning person. But then at Mass, he purposefully says the older translation of the Creed to annoy me (he’ll read the parts that are the same off the laminated sheet, so no, I’m not being paranoid.) And he always makes these COMMENTS. He’ll complain about something like the Holy Water fonts being full during Lent (his home parish did that stupid sand thing), or say something obnoxious. **And it won’t be a passive comment; he’ll say it in a really combative way, like he’s trying to get a reaction. And he does.
**
Today I was so happy, because he actually crossed himself with Holy Water and went up to communion with me and sang. I thought maybe something had changed. But then in the car, he said he was annoyed because he went up by accident and by the time he noticed, it was too late to leave the line without looking weird. Then he said, “Do you know what my favorite part of the Mass was?” “What?” “Leaving.” So then we argued, and I went into another room and cried when we got home. Stuff like this makes me doubt our marriage and feel awful. Today it got to the point where I wish he wouldn’t even come to Mass with me. I don’t know what to do.
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You are reinforcing his behavior by doing what he wants. If he acts this way in order to get a reaction, don’t give him one. Stay cool and don’t get mad. Don’t expect it to happen soon; it may take a long time. But something tells me if you don’t react to his actions, his rudeness will eventually stop.
 
Maine52 said:
You are reinforcing his behavior by doing what he wants. If he acts this way in order to get a reaction, don’t give him one. Stay cool and don’t get mad. Don’t expect it to happen soon; it may take a long time. But something tells me if you don’t react to his actions, his rudeness will eventually stop.
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Would you recommend that I attend Mass alone, or continue to encourage him to come?
 
AClaire11 said:

“Would you recommend that I attend Mass alone, or continue to encourage him to come?”

I wouldn’t make a federal case out of it, either way.

But you can do what people are encouraged to do with toddlers and small children–plan a pleasant day together, the first part of which is Mass. Here’s how it might sound for kids: “We’re going to Mass, then we’ll go to IHOP for pancakes, and then we’ll go to the zoo.” Figure out what the adult male version of that enticing schedule is for your husband.

Also, come to think of it, maybe both of you would prefer a Saturday anticipated Mass?
 
AClaire11 said:
Would you recommend that I attend Mass alone, or continue to encourage him to come?
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I would invite him to come. Then if he does come to Mass and starts making comments, respond without getting aggravated.
 
AClaire11 said:
We’re working on getting our marriage convalidated and we go to Mass every Sunday together, even though I’ve told him that he doesn’t have to accompany me if he feels forced. He always just says, “No, I want to be with you,” and comes along. But it feels like every Sunday, there’s a fight. Sometimes it’s my fault, because he insists on the earliest Mass and I am not a morning person. But then at Mass, he purposefully says the older translation of the Creed to annoy me (he’ll read the parts that are the same off the laminated sheet, so no, I’m not being paranoid.) And he always makes these COMMENTS. He’ll complain about something like the Holy Water fonts being full during Lent (his home parish did that stupid sand thing), or say something obnoxious. And it won’t be a passive comment; he’ll say it in a really combative way, like he’s trying to get a reaction. And he does.
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He actually sounds a bit childish. A lot of times a little boy wants to be around a little girl, but it has to appear that he doesn’t really want to be around her so he’ll tease and irritate her and mock everything she is doing or saying. The little girl is so confused and hurt not realising that the little boys are very stupid really about relationships with girls. But then the little boys get the flick enough times that they evenutally grow up and be men.

Think of him as a little boy who needs to know how his behaviour is turning you off him.
 
I would continue to invite him to Mass and leave it up to him whether or not to go. Don’t discourage him, but don’t push it, either. And certainly don’t give him any indication that you don’t want him there or that you’re frustrated when he comes. He may not be the ideal spiritual leader at the moment, but encouraging him to skip Mass isn’t likely to improve that situation at all! 😉

I agree about just trying to avoid the arguments. It’s not always going to be easy (I know from experience!), but it’s probably the best solution. 👍

Consider also that he’s likely being tempted to pick fights with you during and after Mass. The devil wants to distract him from really “hearing” what God’s trying to tell him!

Remember that your goal is not to “win” the argument… it is to let God speak to him–so say as little as possible, as gently as possible (but don’t use short answers as another way to argue or “get back” at him, either).

Let him hear his own words and let his conscience “argue” with him (and he might even eventually realize he’s being kind of a jerk–but he’ll never realize it if you point it out). As others have said, this will probably take some time, effort, and patience, so don’t expect immediate results, but be persistent, and pray, pray, pray! :gopray2:

🙂
 
I wouldn’t discourage him from coming with you, because I wouldn’t want to discourage anyone from going to Mass, especially someone who is Catholic (lapsed even) and is therefore obligated to attend. But I wouldn’t make a fuss about inviting him either, and I definitely wouldn’t fall for the bait. So he comments that his favorite thing about Mass is leaving. Just let the comment go, and change the topic. I’m known for saying rather caustic things like, “you’ll get over it,” but a more charitable response might be, “I’m not going to play that game” or “I’m not in the mood to argue. Wanna get some donuts?” An obnoxious comment doesn’t really require a reply at all - you could completely ignore it. Just don’t argue. If he wants to have a legitimate conversation about a part of the faith that confuses or troubles him, then be willing to talk about what you know, but set the boundary that conversations about this need to be calm and respectful, and not argumentative. You may need to actually state those boundaries to him. Of course it might be hard for you to keep that boundary as well, and you may find that not talking about faith very often is the better course of action, at least for now.
 
ThyKingdomCome said:

“If he wants to have a legitimate conversation about a part of the faith that confuses or troubles him, then be willing to talk about what you know, but set the boundary that conversations about this need to be calm and respectful, and not argumentative.”

I think it might be worth asking him, “If you were married to a woman of a completely different faith (for instance Jewish or Hindu), how would you behave in a synagogue or temple? I’d like you to be as polite in church as you would be at a synagogue.”

The silver lining here is that he’s probably behaving badly in part because he feels at home.
 
The book Boundaries may be of some help to you. It is written by psychologists Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend. In fact, they have also written Boundaries in Marriage that might be even better for you although I have not read the Marriage one myself. It appears there may be more going on than just different attitudes toward mass.
 
I would go alone. He really isn’t WITH you if he is being such a jerk. Also, his behavior is distracting to you during Mass. We each have our own row to hoe, as my Nana said. You can set a good example, and pray for him.
 
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