Frustrated with the Church, not with Jesus Christ

[PerfectTiming]

This comment doesn’t make sense. So if I was a woman and I know abortion is a mortal sin, but I don’t understand why it is a mortal sin, I can get an abortion and not commit a mortal sin. That’s what you just said, and that is exactly the type of issue I discussed with the priest: I knew it was a mortal sin to have sex with my wife in an invalid marriage (I read it in the CCC), but I didn’t understand why. So he told me I did not commit a mortal sin.

Not understanding why it is a mortal sin is not the same as not knowing it is a mortal sin. In the case you describe regarding abortion it is a mortal sin because the individual in question is fully aware that it has grave matter but still does it anyway.
As an example of not knowing it is a mortal sin, when I was a child I gave an offering to a Brazilian godess named Iemanjá at a New Year festival. I was not aware that what I was doing had grave matter so it was not a mortal sin.

Perhaps the priest misunderstood you and thought you didn’t know it was a mortal sin.

 

[LilyM]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Example: I hear all the time from the overly “pious” Catholics (the ones who I guess never saw the biblical passage about removing a certain beam from one’s eye first) that under no conditions should we be “cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what we want to believe. That’s fine, I would have no problem with that. But…it’s not that simple. Last Saturday at Confession a priest told me that if I commit a mortal sin between Confession and mass the next day, I should still receive the Eucharist as long as I resolve with all my heart to go to Confession the next week. He said: “Christ wants you to receive him.” Okay, well that statement undoes 10 years of what I thought I knew about Communion and mortal sin.

 

[manualman]

Nobody genuinely seeking the authentic teaching of the Church and willing to try to comprehend it, absorb it and in the meantime obey it can be called a “Cafeteria Catholic.” The words you are looking for is HUMAN.

The people are frustrating, absolutely. And so are you and I to somebody else…

 

[hudson]

Coming from someone that just had their marriage convalidated, you should not even been allowed to give a confession until it is completed. Now that you are fully aware of masturbation being a grave matter, you may no longer claim ignorance, making it a mortal sin.

 

[Warrior1979]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Exactly.

I’ll give an example. I took a course of action that resulted in several abandoned children being adopted and subsequently raised Roman Catholics. If I would’ve followed the Cannon Law to the letter, I would not have these children and the chance of them being raised Roman Catholic is nonexistent.

Of course, those who live by the letter of the (Canon) law wouldn’t care. But I obstinantly refuse to believe that God’s hand are tied when it comes to helping the innocent.

 

[dans0622]

Exactly.

I’ll give an example. I took a course of action that resulted in several abandoned children being adopted and subsequently raised Roman Catholics. If I would’ve followed the Cannon Law to the letter, I would not have these children and the chance of them being raised Roman Catholic is nonexistent.

Of course, those who live by the letter of the (Canon) law wouldn’t care. But I obstinantly refuse to believe that God’s hand are tied when it comes to helping the innocent.

Hello Warrior1979,

As a canon lawyer, I’d like to know what canon law you think you did not follow…not so I can chastise you but because I don’t know what you are referring to and am wondering if there is something–in the law–of which I am not aware. Thank you.

To the OP: it is our obligation to properly form our conscience and act accordingly. It seems you are doing so. Keep up the good (hard) work.

Dan

 

[manualman]

Coming from someone that just had their marriage convalidated, you should not even been allowed to give a confession until it is completed. Now that you are fully aware of masturbation being a grave matter, you may no longer claim ignorance, making it a mortal sin.

Grave matter and knowledge are NOT the only two ingredients in a mortal sin. Habitual sin involves ambiguity in the question of consent. The OP should seek the (name removed by moderator)ut of a priest on how often to confess while he’s dealing with this sinful habit and what to do when/if he messes up. The priest is charged with binding and loosing, not you or me.

 

[hudson]

If its not a sin because he says hes addicted then why even try to ever stop? Just say your addicted for life and continue masturbating till death. Is that what you are saying? Everything I have changed since coming back to the Church was difficult and I could of claimed I was addicted to each. The main reason I stopped doing all of it was because I knew it was a mortal sin and stopped cold turkey.

 

[hudson]

Here is a link from this website from someone way more knowledgeable than us.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=183141

 

[manualman]

If its not a sin because he says hes addicted then why even try to ever stop?

Because venial sins pound nails in the hands and feet of Christ too! Incomplete consent doesn’t make a sin involving grave matter NOT sinful.

 

[newbetx]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Example: I hear all the time from the overly “pious” Catholics (the ones who I guess never saw the biblical passage about removing a certain beam from one’s eye first) that under no conditions should we be “cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what we want to believe. That’s fine, I would have no problem with that. But…it’s not that simple. Last Saturday at Confession a priest told me that if I commit a mortal sin between Confession and mass the next day, I should still receive the Eucharist as long as I resolve with all my heart to go to Confession the next week. He said: “Christ wants you to receive him.” Okay, well that statement undoes 10 years of what I thought I knew about Communion and mortal sin.

Another example: I have struggled with the habit of masturbation, as many others do but don’t admit (and yet they still receive Communion every Sunday without Confession). Anyway, I have brought this topic up with five priests and four of them said that since it was habitual it is not a mortal sin, that I should just keep trying to stop. One of the priests told me that it is always mortal. Whom do I believe?

Another example: I told my priest that I have been guilty of having sex in an invalid marriage (my wife and I were married in the Presbyterian Church under almost the exact same form as the Cathoilc form during a time when I was not practicing my faith in the Catholic church). I am soon getting my marriage convalidated in the RC church. Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. But I also told him that it is not my prerogative to determine what is mortal or not, and so I confessed the sin and asked for forgiveness. He said: “if you don’t understand why it is a mortal sin, then you did not commit a mortal sin.” Oh, okay (!!!)

So I have different priests telling me different things on BASIC DOCTRINE. So here’s what the “pious” Catholics will tell me in true Philistine fashion: read your CCC and you will know what is mortal and what is not. But wait a minute, I thought we weren’t supposed to determine of our own accord – and with our limited understanding – what doctrine is implied in the CCC? We are supposed to consult the Church (i.e. our priests who presumably have sound theological training). See what I mean?

Communications can be difficult, even between very close people and misunderstandings happen all the time. What you were told was probably correct in the context of what you were told. It is very complicated… but on the other hand, loving Jesus is not. Difficult but not complicated.

Your post speaks much about your sins and technical issues. To get past your sins, you can not focus on priests and verbage. You have to focus on your relationship with the Lord, instead. Do that and you won’t have to have confusing short conversations with priests.

There are various levels of rules. All of them are guidelines for a better life in the love of God. Have tried settling for a single priest as your spiritual adviser? Or do you think they are all “flaky.”

 

[benidict]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Example: I hear all the time from the overly “pious” Catholics (the ones who I guess never saw the biblical passage about removing a certain beam from one’s eye first) that under no conditions should we be “cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what we want to believe. That’s fine, I would have no problem with that. But…it’s not that simple. Last Saturday at Confession a priest told me that if I commit a mortal sin between Confession and mass the next day, I should still receive the Eucharist as long as I resolve with all my heart to go to Confession the next week. He said: “Christ wants you to receive him.” Okay, well that statement undoes 10 years of what I thought I knew about Communion and mortal sin.

Another example: I have struggled with the habit of masturbation, as many others do but don’t admit (and yet they still receive Communion every Sunday without Confession). Anyway, I have brought this topic up with five priests and four of them said that since it was habitual it is not a mortal sin, that I should just keep trying to stop. One of the priests told me that it is always mortal. Whom do I believe?

Another example: I told my priest that I have been guilty of having sex in an invalid marriage (my wife and I were married in the Presbyterian Church under almost the exact same form as the Cathoilc form during a time when I was not practicing my faith in the Catholic church). I am soon getting my marriage convalidated in the RC church. Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. But I also told him that it is not my prerogative to determine what is mortal or not, and so I confessed the sin and asked for forgiveness. He said: “if you don’t understand why it is a mortal sin, then you did not commit a mortal sin.” Oh, okay (!!!)

So I have different priests telling me different things on BASIC DOCTRINE. So here’s what the “pious” Catholics will tell me in true Philistine fashion: read your CCC and you will know what is mortal and what is not. But wait a minute, I thought we weren’t supposed to determine of our own accord – and with our limited understanding – what doctrine is implied in the CCC? We are supposed to consult the Church (i.e. our priests who presumably have sound theological training). See what I mean?

Excellent thread.

 

[benidict]

Okay, but that makes you a cafeteria Catholic too. Welcome aboard

Guess Im with you.

 

[Rock_Happy]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Example: I hear all the time from the overly “pious” Catholics (the ones who I guess never saw the biblical passage about removing a certain beam from one’s eye first) that under no conditions should we be “cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what we want to believe. That’s fine, I would have no problem with that. But…it’s not that simple. Last Saturday at Confession a priest told me that if I commit a mortal sin between Confession and mass the next day, I should still receive the Eucharist as long as I resolve with all my heart to go to Confession the next week. He said: “Christ wants you to receive him.” Okay, well that statement undoes 10 years of what I thought I knew about Communion and mortal sin.

Another example: I have struggled with the habit of masturbation, as many others do but don’t admit (and yet they still receive Communion every Sunday without Confession). Anyway, I have brought this topic up with five priests and four of them said that since it was habitual it is not a mortal sin, that I should just keep trying to stop. One of the priests told me that it is always mortal. Whom do I believe?

Another example: I told my priest that I have been guilty of having sex in an invalid marriage (my wife and I were married in the Presbyterian Church under almost the exact same form as the Cathoilc form during a time when I was not practicing my faith in the Catholic church). I am soon getting my marriage convalidated in the RC church. Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. But I also told him that it is not my prerogative to determine what is mortal or not, and so I confessed the sin and asked for forgiveness. He said: “if you don’t understand why it is a mortal sin, then you did not commit a mortal sin.” Oh, okay (!!!)

So I have different priests telling me different things on BASIC DOCTRINE. So here’s what the “pious” Catholics will tell me in true Philistine fashion: read your CCC and you will know what is mortal and what is not. But wait a minute, I thought we weren’t supposed to determine of our own accord – and with our limited understanding – what doctrine is implied in the CCC? We are supposed to consult the Church (i.e. our priests who presumably have sound theological training). See what I mean?

I went to church on Mother’s Day with my mom. She is Episcopalian. I was impressed by the joy and good will all around me. Those folks found joy in their religion. My impression on this site is that there are a collection of religious misfits who are so caught up in judging other people, that they have no joy in their spiritual lives. Rather than promoting Catholicism, the point here seems to be to present it in its worst light. I am very unimpressed by what I have seen here. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the prestige of the member, in the membership hierarchy, and the spiritual joy which comes across in their postings. Is the Catholic religion primarily about repression, depression, sorrow and hatred? That is the “take away” from Catholic.com. I would hardly call it a site which achieves a mission of promoting Catholicism.

 

[hudson]

I went to church on Mother’s Day with my mom. She is Episcopalian. I was impressed by the joy and good will all around me. Those folks found joy in their religion. My impression on this site is that there are a collection of religious misfits who are so caught up in judging other people, that they have no joy in their spiritual lives. Rather than promoting Catholicism, the point here seems to be to present it in its worst light. I am very unimpressed by what I have seen here. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the prestige of the member, in the membership hierarchy, and the spiritual joy which comes across in their postings. Is the Catholic religion primarily about repression, depression, sorrow and hatred? That is the “take away” from Catholic.com. I would hardly call it a site which achieves a mission of promoting Catholicism.

I find the exact opposite. I find very knowledgable people that have helped grow beyond anything I could have imagined months ago. For many weeks I came here reading everything I could. I want to thank the wonderful people on this site that have helped me grow in my faith.

 

[Rock_Happy]

I find the exact opposite. I find very knowledgable people that have helped grow beyond anything I could have imagined months ago. For many weeks I came here reading everything I could. I want to thank the wonderful people on this site that have helped me grow in my faith.

I am glad to read that.

 

[Tiberius1701]

Coming from someone that just had their marriage convalidated, you should not even been allowed to give a confession until it is completed.

I’m sorry, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve always heard, from Canon Lawyers and apologists on Catholic radio shows, for instance, that whether or not your marriage has been convalidated, there’s never anything keeping anyone who’s been baptized and confirmed Catholic from receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Now, if your marriage is not yet convalidated and you’re still having relations with your wife and refusing to confess that you’re having relations, then you should not receive the Eucharist, but why would you be barred from Confession? That’s like saying that you can’t go to the doctor to have your brain hemmorhage treated until you’ve been given advil for the headache. Why would his having unknowningly committed a venial sin that makes his marriage not yet fully valid stop him from being allowed to come to Confession and be forgiven of mortal sins resulting from that honest mistake just because he’s waiting for the hierarchy to find time to fix it? I’ve also always heard that, once someone in this predicament has gone to Confession, assuming they’re living “as brother and sister” (i.e. without having relations) with their wife until the convalidation, and not committing other mortal sins, there’s, again, no reason they could not receive the Eucharist while they wait for the convalidation.

I neither grew up Catholic nor had need of a convalidation, so I’m not trying to argue here; I’m just trying to understand what you mean…

 

[exoflare]

To summarize the above post in one sentence: if I receive conflicting advice from two priests and consult the CCC to get resolution, I am forced to rely on my own judgment and understanding of the CCC. And yet, wouldn’t that make a “cafeteria Catholic”?

no

 

[hudson]

Tiberius,

You are correct about what you say. I was referring to the OPs situation. His, like mine meant we were not willing to live as brother and sister while waiting for the marriage to be convalidated. So in the eyes of the Church everytime we had sex we were having premarital sex which is a mortal sin.

Quote from OP
"Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. "

As you can see he is not living as brother and sister, thus meaning he cannot give a valid confession since he is not truly sorry for committing the mortal sin in the first place.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Coming from someone that just had their marriage convalidated, you should not even been allowed to give a confession until it is completed. Now that you are fully aware of masturbation being a grave matter, you may no longer claim ignorance, making it a mortal sin.

Wow! Are you serious? How did you decide who should be able to confess?