Frustrating confession. Validity?

[maryjk]

Can we just agree that people should not take 10 TIMES the normal dose of ANYTHING? A legal marijuana cookie contains approximately 100 mg of active THC. that is enough to get 10 people very high. Try drinking enough vodka for 10 people, enough NyQuil for 10, taking enough aspirin for 10, drinking enough COFFEE for 10 and see how you react. Just because a person cannot consume an unlimited amount of something without negative effects does not make it intrinsically immoral to use, does it?

I do agree that it is terribly irresponsible for these cookies to be sold with no indication of how much is a normal “dose”. One would wrongly assume that one cookie is equal to one dose. I feel just awful for that poor kid, because I have high anxiety, and I know how too much marijuana can exacerbate that.

And you play with fire by “relaxing” with pot? :nope:

That is the same as someone that knows 2 drinks put them in a rampage but they drink one drink anyway.

After reading your comments here, I can see why the second priest advised you that smoking/eating pot is a sin.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Hello DoNot.

No, the Church has not been silent on this issue. Far from it. Here is the Catechisms remarks on pot and other drugs:
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

Why do you think some Sisters from Maryknoll were killed in Central America in recent years? Have you not seen in the news the massive amounts of human carnage that pot alone has left in it’s wake in Mexico? There are things called drug cartels and they are extremely dangerous. You’d have to be blind and deaf to not hear about such stuff as it is in the news nearly every report you hear.

No. I’m sorry but every cent you spend on pot helps those in the drug cartels. It would be the same thing as dropping a few cents in the kettle if Planned Parenthood were standing outside your grocery store collecting donations to kill little babies. In Mexico whole families get wiped out. Murdered. For telling on others or simply to hide routes when DEA gets too close. It isn’t only Cocaine that they are trafficking in. Think about what you’re saying when you say pot is harmless. Please for your children’s sakes, find another healthier way to relax. Try praying the Rosary with your hubby instead of the wine and movies. Or before the wine and movies. And who needs wine anyway? Your hubby should be enough.

Glenda

By the catechism’s definition, alcohol and cigarettes are clearly drugs, and yet those are not inherently sinful. Caffeine also falls under this category. Obviously the Church allows for drugs that are not among those prohibited. Cigarettes literally kill 25% of the people who smoke them throughout their lives, and I know that cigarettes are not strictly prohibited and that many priests smoke them themselves. They are also highly addictive.

And no, my money doesn’t go to a drug cartel, it goes to the state. Marijuana is legal and taxed in Colorado and grown on-site.

And I’m sorry, but “your hubby should be enough” is kind of a silly statement. We aren’t Puritans. Nothing wrong with a little drinking and relaxing. Ask an Irish priest.

 

[DoNotWorry]

And you play with fire by “relaxing” with pot? :nope:

That is the same as someone that knows 2 drinks put them in a rampage but they drink one drink anyway.

After reading your comments here, I can see why the second priest advised you that smoking/eating pot is a sin.

Mary, I said a cookie is 10 TIMES the normal dose, so taking one bite would be like me knowing that drinking 20 drinks will kill me but having 2. Hardly playing with fire.

 

[maryjk]

Mary, I said a cookie is 10 TIMES the normal dose, so taking one bite would be like me knowing that drinking 20 drinks will kill me but having 2. Hardly playing with fire.

You also said you have high anxiety.

Why would you play around with something like that?

I just can’t see where it would be worth it. And I can see where it would be a sin.

 

[DoNotWorry]

You also said you have high anxiety.

Why would you play around with something like that?

I just can’t see where it would be worth it. And I can see where it would be a sin.

I do. I have smoked marijuana a lot in my life, most notably through college. It helped me relax and study and write and do very well, eventually getting my Master’s in a foreign language. I know how it affects me and I occasionally enjoy using just enough to relax and focus. These things are hard for me to do with two small kids Some people like chamomile tea. Marijuana has been demonized because of stereotypes of smokers and the types of people who are “proud” to use it. I am not encouraging anyone to do it at all, I am just saying that I don’t believe it to be intrinsically sinful to use it for everyone, that people use it for different reasons and not all of us are sitting in a dorm room with a 6-foot glass bong talking about Twinkies.

 

[fencersmother]

Dear DoNotWorry,

After reading your increasingly strident posts, I truly do think you may have more of a problem with marijuana than just “let’s relax.”

I think your priest was correct and that perhaps you need some drug counseling, and maybe to see a doctor for your anxiety issues. While a doc may indeed prescribe medication for you, it will be monitored and controlled.

Does your husband, who is also, one presumes, partaking of this “cookie,” also have these “high anxiety” issues? Or is he just getting high along with you?

Drunkenness is indeed a sin, and so would being so “relaxed” that one no longer has any anxiety.

Go to a doctor.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Dear DoNotWorry,

After reading your increasingly strident posts, I truly do think you may have more of a problem with marijuana than just “let’s relax.”

I think your priest was correct and that perhaps you need some drug counseling, and maybe to see a doctor for your anxiety issues. While a doc may indeed prescribe medication for you, it will be monitored and controlled.

Does your husband, who is also, one presumes, partaking of this “cookie,” also have these “high anxiety” issues? Or is he just getting high along with you?

Drunkenness is indeed a sin, and so would being so “relaxed” that one no longer has any anxiety.

Go to a doctor.

Think what you will. As I said, I have used marijuana a handful of times in the past year, once in the six months before that, and so on. It is not my my intention to convince you of the legitimacy of my questions on the topic. My main question was on my absolution and on why different priests have different viewpoints on this subject. There seems to be no consensus. I do not nor have I ever used marijuana to help with my anxiety. For that, I use distraction and prayer. I have been on several anti-depressants in the past, but none were very effective, and although I do have anxiety and some OCD to this day, I am fully in control of myself and would not want to be put on benzos (Xanax) for any length of time, as they cause severe depression in users with years of use and frankly, just make me exhausted and worthless. I will take a Xanax for those plane rides though! Unlike many others, I don’t think that doctors have a magic cure for what is essentially the human condition. I don’t need pharmaceuticals to make me feel less human, thanks.

I have emailed my pastor with detailed questions on the matter and I hope to hear a logical, clearly-worded response on the matter, including the moral differences between marijuana and alcohol or even cigarettes. I remain confused as to why I can slowly commit suicide by smoking or willingly get buzzed on alcohol (what saint was it that said “Drink to the point of hilarity”?), but the slightest use of marijuana would be considered by some to be an objective mortal sin. Hopefully he will respond this week. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Havard]

I’m sorry if I missed something, but are you saying that you’re self-medicating for anxiety?

If there are times that feel that you “need” a drug to relax, I would talk to your physician. There may be more to the problem that you have not considered, and there also may be solutions that do not involve drugs.

 

[maryjk]

I do have anxiety, but I did not really mean to intimate that I use pot to “cope” with it. **On the extremely rare occasion that I do it, it is to generally relax and have fun with my husband on the couch with a couple of drinks. **Nothing crazy, not getting wasted. So I didn’t really mean to imply that I am dependent on this for relief from panic attacks or anything. As I said, I rarely use it, but I can’t say I am “resolved” never to use it again because I don’t think that using it in such a way is a mortal sin any more than using alcohol to relax is one. So I guess I am asking if my absolution seems like a valid one? Or if the idea that it may have been implied that I use it for anxiety might make it invalid?

I didn’t intend for it to come off that way-I just sort of realized later that it may have seemed like I use it to cope with anxiety, which isn’t true.

Sorry but I just reread the OP.

You use it WITH a couple of drinks?

Sorry, you may not think you are getting high or wasted, but if you are using pot WITH alcohol, you certainly aren’t simply relaxed.

 

[DoNotWorry]

I’m sorry if I missed something, but are you saying that you’re self-medicating for anxiety?

If there are times that feel that you “need” a drug to relax, I would talk to your physician. There may be more to the problem that you have not considered, and there also may be solutions that do not involve drugs.

No. I do have anxiety, but I deal with it in other ways. I do not self-medicate with marijuana to ease it.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Sorry but I just reread the OP.

You use it WITH a couple of drinks?

Sorry, you may not think you are getting high or wasted, but if you are using pot WITH alcohol, you certainly aren’t simply relaxed.

I would say I enjoy getting tipsy on occasion. As far as I know this is not a mortal sin as long as my ability to distinguish right from wrong or my reason is impaired. Venial, perhaps, but there is a pretty high threshold for mortal sin re:drunkenness from my understanding. You have to deliberately surrender your reason and free will.

 

[Robertanthony]

No. I do have anxiety, but I deal with it in other ways. I do not self-medicate with marijuana to ease it.

Some people here equal drug=pure evil. If you live off welfare, have lost all dignity and smoke 5-10 joints a day, it’s problematic, if you so crave cocaine that you’d be willing to sell your mom to get some, it’s a problem, hard drugs that are both detrimental to your health and highly addictive are a whole different story. I can’t understand how a reasonable, scarce and responsible use of marijuana can ever be considered a mortal sin. I can,t picture Jesus telling you: “Honor mother and father, check, been a good wife and mom to your x number of kids, check, fulfilled Sunday, Easter, Christmas obligations, check, gave generously to the poor, check, lended a hand whenever you could, check, use your talents and multiply them (Masters in a foreign language) check. oh, but i see you used marijuana and ate an occasional bite of a marijuana cookie, which, furthermore, was not cooked in a kosher facility. Depart from me you accursed, I never knew you”. It won’t happen, period.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Some people here equal drug=pure evil. If you live off welfare, have lost all dignity and smoke 5-10 joints a day, it’s problematic, if you so crave cocaine that you’d be willing to sell your mom to get some, it’s a problem, hard drugs that are both detrimental to your health and highly addictive are a whole different story. I can’t understand how a reasonable, scarce and responsible use of marijuana can ever be considered a mortal sin. I can,t picture Jesus telling you: “Honor mother and father, check, been a good wife and mom to your x number of kids, check, fulfilled Sunday, Easter, Christmas obligations, check, gave generously to the poor, check, lended a hand whenever you could, check, use your talents and multiply them (Masters in a foreign language) check. oh, but i see you used marijuana and ate an occasional bite of a marijuana cookie, which, furthermore, was not cooked in a kosher facility. Depart from me you accursed, I never knew you”. It won’t happen, period.

Thank you. This is sort of my feeling on the matter. I have a hard time morally differentiating between marijuana and alcohol. Either they are both permissible or neither are. Now, if the magisterium or the Pope came out today and specifically addressed the issue regarding marijuana in a legal setting, I would certainly follow it out of obedience. But with such vague language in the catechism - “drugs”, really???, and no definitive statement on it, it just leaves a huge grey area for me. Why is feelings he effects of alcohol ok, killing myself with cigarettes, sure, but use a little bit of pot and straight to hell? It’s just confusing. If the Vatican wants people always and everywhere to never use marijuana, then please just say so! It has been around forever! Can we specifically address this please?

 

[Havard]

You have to deliberately surrender your reason and free will.

There is more to it than that, though. If you overdo it with any regularity (imho, at least 1 out of 4 times), and you keep telling yourself that it’s an innocent mistake every time, the assumption of a false ignorance will keep adding to the voluntary nature of the act, and it may well become a mortal sin.

 

[Origen52]

Hello DoNot.

No, the Church has not been silent on this issue. Far from it. Here is the Catechisms remarks on pot and other drugs:
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

Why do you think some Sisters from Maryknoll were killed in Central America in recent years? Have you not seen in the news the massive amounts of human carnage that pot alone has left in it’s wake in Mexico? There are things called drug cartels and they are extremely dangerous. You’d have to be blind and deaf to not hear about such stuff as it is in the news nearly every report you hear.

No. I’m sorry but every cent you spend on pot helps those in the drug cartels. It would be the same thing as dropping a few cents in the kettle if Planned Parenthood were standing outside your grocery store collecting donations to kill little babies. In Mexico whole families get wiped out. Murdered. For telling on others or simply to hide routes when DEA gets too close. It isn’t only Cocaine that they are trafficking in. Think about what you’re saying when you say pot is harmless. Please for your children’s sakes, find another healthier way to relax. Try praying the Rosary with your hubby instead of the wine and movies. Or before the wine and movies. And who needs wine anyway? Your hubby should be enough.

Glenda

Glenda, the operative word in 2291 is “clandestine”, if Marijuana is legal then it’s production is not clandestine and it is traded, not trafficked. Legal drugs, not abused, would not “constitute direct co-operation in evil”. Therefore, unlike one of the previous posters argued, using a drug appropriately would only be sinful if it were illegal, because it could only be acquired by dealing with individuals engaged in “clandestine production” and “trafficking”. Acquiring, and moderately using the same drug, in locations where it is legal, would not be sinful, because you would not be dealing with a criminal producer and distributer

A good example is alcohol. During prohibition, in the US, alcohol was an illicit substance and would have been considered sinful, as per 2291. Today, alcohol would only be sinful if abused, as per 2290.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

As for the killing of the maryknoll sisters in El Salvador, that happened in 1980 and had nothing to do with drugs. I don’t want to get into the whole political maelstrom discussing this issue would cause. If you’re interested there is a lot of literature on the subject.

 

[johnnyt3000]

You wouldn’t be worrying about this if you got rid of marijuana all together, just saying, and why not listen to some relaxing music instead? Or like I mentioned before, visit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[glendab]

Oh dear! I think the real issue is coming to the surface: The legality of marijuana use in the State of Colorado removing the sinful nature of smoking that weed. The State isn’t over the Church. The State has never been able to remove sins, only God can. The State can remove punishments for offences, but they cannot remove the sinful nature of a thing at all. That is up to God and the Church being His instrument tells us what is sin and what isn’t. For example Prostitution is legal in some Counties in the State of Nevada, does that mean engaging in this heinous sin is not a sin as long as it is done in those specific Counties? NOT!!!

The Handbook of Moral Theology that I have states this about drug use: 504.* The use of morphia and other remedial drugs. * It is not permissible to use such remedies unless there exists sufficient reason conductive to bodily health. Unless such remedies are used with great care, they can cause grave harm to one’s health and very often they lead to evil moral effects, as is evident in those addicted to the use of morphia.

I think the weed falls under the auspicies of other remedial drugs and unless it is prescribed by a doctor for a specific use, then it is being abused. No a little weed in the evening with wine and hubby and a movie isn’t exactly a prescription a doctor would give.

I also think that the defensiveness with which this subject is being broached by the OP shows that this particular drug has been abused and the OP expects the States’ legalizing it to be reflected in how the priests now admonish about the sin of getting stoned on reefer.

Lastly, DENIAL ain’t a river in Egypt.

Glenda

 

[DoNotWorry]

Oh dear! I think the real issue is coming to the surface: The legality of marijuana use in the State of Colorado removing the sinful nature of smoking that weed. The State isn’t over the Church. The State has never been able to remove sins, only God can. The State can remove punishments for offences, but they cannot remove the sinful nature of a thing at all. That is up to God and the Church being His instrument tells us what is sin and what isn’t. For example Prostitution is legal in some Counties in the State of Nevada, does that mean engaging in this heinous sin is not a sin as long as it is done in those specific Counties? NOT!!!

The Handbook of Moral Theology that I have states this about drug use: 504.* The use of morphia and other remedial drugs. * It is not permissible to use such remedies unless there exists sufficient reason conductive to bodily health. Unless such remedies are used with great care, they can cause grave harm to one’s health and very often they lead to evil moral effects, as is evident in those addicted to the use of morphia.

I think the weed falls under the auspicies of other remedial drugs and unless it is prescribed by a doctor for a specific use, then it is being abused. No a little weed in the evening with wine and hubby and a movie isn’t exactly a prescription a doctor would give.

I also think that the defensiveness with which this subject is being broached by the OP shows that this particular drug has been abused and the OP expects the States’ legalizing it to be reflected in how the priests now admonish about the sin of getting stoned on reefer.

Lastly, DENIAL ain’t a river in Egypt.

Glenda

Morphine and marijuana aren’t even in the same ballpark. If someone could give me a real moral difference between marijuana and alcohol, I would be convinced. Otherwise, I maintain that either both are permissible or neither are. A few beers in the evening to relax on the couch? No big deal? A bite of a marijuana cookie to relax-sinful? Why?

And my point is that the Church HAS NOT ADDRESSED marijuana use in a legal setting. They just haven’t. “Drugs” in the CCC is broad as a barn and could refer to just about anything, including Red Bull. And morphine? Sorry, no. Not even in the same pharmacological category. If the Church would simply address this, I would absolutely go along with it, but in the absence of that, aren’t we left to our own well-formed consciences?

 

[Havard]

Morphine and marijuana aren’t even in the same ballpark. If someone could give me a real moral difference between marijuana and alcohol, I would be convinced. Otherwise, I maintain that either both are permissible or neither are. A few beers in the evening to relax on the couch? No big deal? A bite of a marijuana cookie to relax-sinful? Why?

And my point is that the Church HAS NOT ADDRESSED marijuana use in a legal setting. They just haven’t. “Drugs” in the CCC is broad as a barn and could refer to just about anything, including Red Bull. And morphine? Sorry, no. Not even in the same pharmacological category. If the Church would simply address this, I would absolutely go along with it, but in the absence of that, aren’t we left to our own well-formed consciences?

Beers to relax does appear to be problematic, though. It’s one thing to consume beers because they taste good, and are refreshing, and the intoxicating effect is a side effect which is prudently monitored.

But when the goal is to obtain the intoxicating effect first and foremost, one IS self-medicating and going down a dangerous path. Anyone who has read anything about the effects of alcohol knows that your judgment begins to be impaired at the very first drink. This goes hand-in-hand with “taking the edge off”, as you are impairing many different functions of your brain.

Now I’m not saying people shouldn’t drink, far from it. I am saying that the purpose of negating one’s mental faculties is not a moral or healthy reason to drink.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Beers to relax does appear to be problematic, though. It’s one thing to consume beers because they taste good, and are refreshing, and the intoxicating effect is a side effect which is prudently monitored.

But when the goal is to obtain the intoxicating effect first and foremost, one IS self-medicating and going down a dangerous path. Anyone who has read anything about the effects of alcohol knows that your judgment begins to be impaired at the very first drink. This goes hand-in-hand with “taking the edge off”, as you are impairing many different functions of your brain.

Now I’m not saying people shouldn’t drink, far from it. I am saying that the purpose of negating one’s mental faculties is not a moral or healthy reason to drink.

Then every single person who drinks whiskey must be sinning, because I don’t know a single person who prefers the “refreshing” taste of warm whiskey to an ice-cold coca-cola. ANYBODY who drinks straight liquor does so for the effect. For that matter, everyone should just drink non-alcoholic beer, since the effect can only be an unfortunate side effect to the delicious taste of hops. So anyone who chooses alcoholic beer with so many non-alcoholic choices now available is sinning as well.

This is getting a bit ridiculous. EVERYBODY drinks alcohol for the effect, except for the rate gourmet who drinks only a very small glass of wine to compliment their dinner.

This would also make coffee immoral for anyone not strictly drinking decaf, and cigarettes? Might as well just write your ticket to hell right now because NOBODY smokes them for the flavor alone, nobody.