Frustrating topic--Praying to the Saints

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KevinK said:
I don’t believe they can communicate with living persons. Or does the Church teach that they can?
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No. It’s not “communication”, which would run dangerously close to prohibitions in the OT. Rather, we simply pray, and trust that God will answer our prayers and theirs on our behalf.
 
Are you Catholic? Do you ask saints to intercede on your behalf?
 
How else can you offer “guidance” if not my “communication”? I was responding to the claim that dead parents can offer guidance to us living. I never brought up anything about Saints.
 
I said nothing of saints. I was responding to the claim that our dead parents can provide us with guidance and asking if it is Church teaching that the dead can communicate with us living.
 
If our parents are in Heaven, then they are saints.
If they are saints, they can intercede for us.
Just like we intercede for each other.

Nobody is forcing you to pray to saints. If it makes you uneasy, don’t do it. But if you’re intellectually honest, then you can’t ask your fellow believers here on earth for their prayers, either.

Peace 🙂❤️:pray:t2:
 
Unless somebody’s parents were declared Saints by the Church, they are NOT Saints. Nobody in heaven is a Saint unless so declared by the Church. This is basic Church teaching. I believe your post is factually incorrect.
 
False. The Church recognizes saints. It does not make saints. Saints are not the only former humans in heaven. They’re simply those whom the Church knows and recognizes as being in heaven.
 
Gracepoole is 100% correct. Any and every soul in heaven has achieved sainthood.
 
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Baptists - hassling Catholics - nothing new there.

They’re hassling you - in Jesus’s name ! lol

When “ relating “ with other denominations - it’s always iffy - out in the world -
like a brief exchanging with a bad neighbor - with a fence in between.

When chatting with a Catholic - it’s more like good coffee at your kitchen table.
Instant understanding.
 
KevinK said:
How else can you offer “guidance” if not my “communication”? I was responding to the claim that dead parents can offer guidance to us living. I never brought up anything about Saints.
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That’s the point. The dead do not offer “guidance.” Rather, they pray to God on our behalf.
 
Saints provide guidance when we read their writings, when we read about their lives.
 
No, this is incorrect. Every person in heaven IS a Saint. Some of those people have had formal declarations, but, the reason we celebrate All Saints and All Souls is to commemorate all of the people in heaven whose names we do not know, who do not have feast days.

A former pastor would take the youth group to the Catholic Cemetery this time of year, talk about how there are most likely many Saints buried in that place, we simply do not know their names. We would pray for all of the faithful departed.

What is error is for us to PRESUME anyone is in heaven (except for those who have been validly baptized and died without reaching the age of reason/had a disability where they were never responsible for personal sin OR those who had the blessing of receiving not only the Last Rites but also the Apostolic Pardon on their deathbeds then died without committing any other sins.)
 
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As a lifelong Catholic I have not been attracted to devotions to the saints. I accept that the saints intercede for us with prayers, but Jesus is our main intercessor.

I believe in intercessory prayer, but I think the saints are already interceding for us. We do not need to appease them with supplication (perhaps I’m wrong). For example, Mary is our “mother” - why would she not be praying and interceding for us?

Scripture does tell us to pray without ceasing. As the priest says in the Preface at Mass: we do well always and everywhere to give You thanks and praise. We are commanded to love God. (Dt 6:4) That fills me up.

Just read today: Jer 48:10 Be not slack in doing the work of the Lord.
 
This, too, is legitimate. It isn’t a requirement of the church to ask Mary or the saints to intercede. It is up to the individual.
 
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We ask other people for help.
Why not ask the people in heaven for help? Aren't they people too?
When we ask people on earth for help, we aren't worshipping them.
 
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Jovs5 said:
They say Catholics idolize false gods becaus we have saints. We pray to them.
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I’d say we pray to God with the saints (at least that is what I do)… and we ask Mary and the other saints to pray for us. I don’t pray to saints… God is where my prayers are directed… after God is the only one who can answer them
 
I think he meant that parents are asked to pray and intercede for us just as we ask Mary to pray and interede for us.
 
I knew a quite devout Christian lady. I don’t recall which church she attended but was not Catholic. She had a very rough time after her husband died, both trying to manage her business and her personal affairs. Often she would go to the cemetery where he was buried and just stand and talk to him about what was going on in her life. I’m sure that she thought he was in heaven. Was she wrong to do this? She wasn’t practicing idolatry. She was just asking for help. If he is in heaven I’m sure he would pray for her and intercede wherever he could. We are all one in Christ.
 
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