Frustration with NFP

[uncleauberon]

What if your expectations are actually your rights, meaning they are rightful? .

Whoa, my friend. Having a right to do somthing and being rightful in doing it are two different things.

Sure, a husband has certain rights to conjugal intimacy with his wife. But, he is not always right in pressing them.

This is not exactly the language of love & charity.

What if we have been trained to think we have to keep earning intimacy, and that our inclinations are wrong when they are actually right? .

Break your training. Become a new person. That’s what I meant by telling yourself. Think your way out of this frustration.

You admit that you made this decision. Stick with it. It is your choice. Nobody promised you any sort of compensation.
{except perhaps in the afterlife}

If you can’t hack it any more then don’t refrain from relations anymore. You might have a baby.

My dad always said, “Life’s a trade off” .

Isn’t a husband entitled to wife’s enthusiasm in P3 same as any othe phase, even moreso when he has stepped up already and sworn off a good third of his love life with the wife to be on board with nfp?.

Entitled ? Isn’t your wife entitled to unconditional love ?

Don’t you think that if she could have all the enthusiasm in P3 that she would want it ? Wouldn’t she want to share the best realtions with you as often as possbile. For both your sakes.

Besides, in this world we are “entitled” to nothing.

We should instead be grateful for all things great and small.
Even those things that seem painful and onerous may indeed be blessings in disguise.

My point is we are always losing ground, never gaining any. It ain’t the old days anymore. I think we are getting used to being handed a handful of you know what and being grateful for it. Sorry if my cave dweller angst is coming thru in this.

I’m not sure about what you mean by “losing ground”.

Every morning you wake up is a new commitment to your marriage.
Conjugal realtions can help build and maintain that love in a very special way. But, it is not “nesscesary”.

If perhaps you or your wife were to experience an accident where one of you was rendered incapable of relations ever again…

Would your marriage be over ?

Wouldn’t you just have to deal with with your frustrations for the rest of your life ?

Would you be “losing ground” ? Or find new ways to “gain it” ?

Let’s be grateful for each time we share conjugal love as if it might be the last time.

You must “Share your expectations” not demand them.

May God Bless all of us “Cavemen” { urgh urgh !}

 

[manualman]

Gillette,

What if your wife were hurt in a horrible accident and was unable to ever have sex again? How would you cope? What if she has emotional injuries somehow that have a similar effect? Food for thought.

There is a book, I THINK it is called the 5 Love Languages that also might help. It’s quite possible that the way you express love, sincere and full efforted as it may be, is not the way she needs to perceive it to receive it.

For my wife, romantic times, verbal affection/affirmation and love notes are the ON button! I’m usually just so dumb that I express my love by doing chores and working hard to do my part which doesn’t do a whole lot for her emotionally. Dunno why I can’t see that writing a little note would be a LOT easier and more appreciated than vacuuming her car!

Point is that you gotta find out what makes her feel loved. Find and read the book. GOOD stuff.

 

[pilot]

what does she say her reasons are? (during the desert phase)

She says she is too tired. She is also anemic due to heavy periods and is tired a lot. She also does everything around the house. I guess I should help more.

 

[pilot]

It sounds like you and your wife have bigger issues then NFP. You sound bitter about having to abstain at times and it sounds like you and your wife never have sex. You two need to find a good compromise on what works for the two of you. Could the two of you go for counseling to work on this issue?

Are there physical or mental issues behind your wife not wanting to have sex? As an example, I was quite sick for about a year before I had surgery to correct the problem. Without going into details, my interest in sex was gone, my wonderful husband didn’t complain, he just went with me to the doc when needed and saw me through the situation. There has to be more to your story; you don’t need to share it with us, but please think about it.

If I made it sound as if we never have sex, than I was wrong. Listening to some of you has helped me realize how selfish I have been and how much work I do not help her with at home. Thanks to you all. I am sure this is a big part of the problem.

 

[TallyCatholic]

So, what is it going to be? Are you going to browbeat her into giving what you need, or will you do your part first? I’m trying the latter approach, but it is bloody hard to think like a woman!

Exactly!!! Not just when it comes to NFP and the phases, but remember…have you ever seen a graph of women’s hormones during their cycles, its like a GIANT ROLLERCOASTER, and men…well we have one hormone that is flatlined!! Really high though!

So when I am really struggling during Phase 2, I just think what she must be feeling. But at least for my wife, even if she is “not in the mood” during parts of Phase 3, I can usually spark her interest by just being creative. You know, send her “steamy” text messages, make her feel loved, make her feel sexy. Sometimes no matter how tired she is, if you make your wife feel that way she will reciprocate it. And sometimes she won’t, but at least she won’t go to bed thinking you don’t care about her.

Let’s be honest guys, why are WE practicing NFP? I ask myself that question everyday as just to reassure myself. We are doing it because we love our wives so much that when we are intimate with them we want to give them our whole selves, as a total sacrifice.

No one said that would be easy! And man, its not! But its worth it when we have those days with our wives and we just know that we’re madly “in love”, so in love that we sacrifice everyday for that love.

Really reminds me of the cross.

God bless guys!! We need our own section on this page! Men, NFP and the wives who love them for it!!

 

[Black_Jaque]

What if your wife were hurt in a horrible accident and was unable to ever have sex again? How would you cope? What if she has emotional injuries somehow that have a similar effect? Food for thought.

Perhaps if these situations were a reality God would give Gillette the grace to cope. However, what if his wife is selfish? What if his wife just plain neglects him? What if she puts children or career as a higher priority than her duties as wife?

1. Frustration most often results from unmet expectations and wants (versus needs in the strict sencse which normally focuses in flight/fright and anxiety response when not adequate)

I am disgusted that some of the advise seems to suggest that the problem is a husband has “expectations”. As if the solution would be to simply not expect intimacy and then you’ll be happy.

I’m sorry, but I do not find this to agree with anything within the Catholic Church.

Number 1) Expecting something from your wife is actually a good thing to do. Heck expect holiness. The key is, you need to check with reality to see if your expectations are reasonable given the circumstances. So long as they are reasonable then you are fine.

Number 2) Whatever you thought about giving of yourself while expecting nothing in return as being Christlike is BUNK! Jesus Christ gave himself entirely - but he also has great expectations of us. If it’s OK for Christ to expect holiness of me then I should think we are fine in expecting holiness of others.

Number 3) Women are not all innocent by virtue of their gender. They can be just as self-centered as men. And for every wife stuck with a husband who doesn’t love her, there is a husband stuck with a wife who does not return his love.

If the case happens to be the latter, in which a wife is too wrapped up in her selfish toil to return her husband’s love, you might try this approach:

Witness to your wife how good physical intimacy is.

By this I mean you have to become a witness to attest that the marital embrace is profoundly good, sacred even, not just pleasureable.

Begin by changing your vocabulary. Dump words like sex, whoopee, grind, “do it” and other such cheapening words. These make the physical union of husband and wife seem more like mere recreation or the satisfaction of a hormonal drive. Replace these with words like marital embrace, intimacy, marriage debt, consummating vows. When your physical union is spoken of in jocular or vulgar terms, it becomes easy for a woman to dismiss her duties as being trivial. Getting the dishes washed certainly is more important than satisfying your selfish desires.

But that’s not what God created physical intimacy to be. He intended the union of husband and wife to be a renewal of the vows to love each other all the days of your lives. When your vocabulary begins to reflect the sacred nature of the marriage embrace a wife will more easily understand that saying “no” or even approaching it with disinterest would be as evil as a husband refusing to repeat his vows or celebrate an anniversary without enthusiasm.

The term marriage debt should not be overused like a bludgeon, but it is worth throwing out there if it sparks a good argument. As a husband you can do a little research on this term and prepare to defend its useage. It is a mortal sin for a spouse to refuse relations if the request is reasonable.

I honestly don’t understand how you husbands figure you’re going to help your wives into heaven by simply reducing your expectations.

 

[mrsfrazier]

She also does everything around the house. I guess I should help more.

LOL I tell my husband if he would do the dishes just a couple times a week it would make a world of difference in our relationship That is true…

 

[Hudson_Gillette]

LOL I tell my husband if he would do the dishes just a couple times a week it would make a world of difference in our relationship That is true…

That was funny. But, are you holding back something out of spite, or else using intimacy as a bargaining commodity? This sounded lighthearted, but too familiar. A better policy is tell him your are his, for better or for worse, and back it up.

Or maybe you should by paper plates.

 

[uncleauberon]

Perhaps if these situations were a reality God would give Gillette the grace to cope. However, what if his wife is selfish? What if his wife just plain neglects him? What if she puts children or career as a higher priority than her duties as wife?.

In the case of these forums we simply don’t know anything beyond what is posted.

Pilot was asking how to deal with his frustration.

We all gave consistant and reasonable answers

Summarized
1 - Have realistic expectations
2 - Discuss this with your wife more.

Number 1) Expecting something from your wife is actually a good thing to do. Heck expect holiness. The key is, you need to check with reality to see if your expectations are reasonable given the circumstances. So long as they are reasonable then you are fine.

Exactly - Reasonable as per the situation.

Number 2) Whatever you thought about giving of yourself while expecting nothing in return as being Christlike is BUNK! Jesus Christ gave himself entirely - but he also has great expectations of us. If it’s OK for Christ to expect holiness of me then I should think we are fine in expecting holiness of others.

Christ needs nothing for himself. His expectations are not selfish. He expects holiness from us for our own sakes.

Number 3) Women are not all innocent by virtue of their gender. They can be just as self-centered as men. And for every wife stuck with a husband who doesn’t love her, there is a husband stuck with a wife who does not return his love.

• If the case happens to be the latter, in which a wife is too wrapped up in her selfish toil to return her husband’s love, you might try this approach:

While all this may be true is smells like a bit of bitterness.
This also reflects back to the idea of
Talking about expectations with the wife.
and having reasonable expectations, as per the situation.

Witness to your wife how good physical intimacy is.

By this I mean you have to become a witness to attest that the marital embrace is profoundly good, sacred even, not just pleasureable.

Begin by changing your vocabulary.

… {clip}…

The term marriage debt should not be overused like a bludgeon, but it is worth throwing out there if it sparks a good argument. As a husband you can do a little research on this term and prepare to defend its useage. It is a mortal sin for a spouse to refuse relations if the request is reasonable.

This is all good food for thought.
Definately worth discussing between a couple.

Yet, your view seems to take the general “fun” and “joy” out of the whole thing.

Certainly, using some of those terms can bring smile, a bit of excitment into the whole thing. What’s wrong with that ?
These may be “trivial” aspects that bring lots of joy.

That doesn’t give either of the persons the right to make the whole thing trivial.

In general, I do get your point that “WORDS” do make a difference.

I honestly don’t understand how you husbands figure you’re going to help your wives into heaven by simply reducing your expectations.

The idea is that we need to replace our feelings of entitlement with feelings of gratitude.

This would help us deal with frustration and

This would be be a tremendous witness to our wife and others.

tjp

 

[manualman]

Black Jacque, I’m mostly with you. My comment you quoted was to Gillette, not the OP. I got a vibe specific to him that prompted my response.Gillette, I think I hear you thinking that your wife decides that if you aren’t cleaning the sink, then she ain’t gonna do what YOU want. But consider that it may be more subtle than that. She MIGHT be feeling unappreciated or unloved and that you just want sex for selfish reasons. If she perceives that you aren’t willing to do your share of the chores, then she probably feels like a piece of meat when you make sexual advances instead of feeling loved and being turned on by your smooth moves!Just a thought. I obviously know nothing about your relationship. What I write actually reveals more about MINE…

 

[mrsfrazier]

That was funny. But, are you holding back something out of spite, or else using intimacy as a bargaining commodity? This sounded lighthearted, but too familiar. A better policy is tell him your are his, for better or for worse, and back it up.

Or maybe you should by paper plates.

No, I definitely don’t use intimacy to bargain, I don’t even know how people can stand to do that. The only time one of us holds back is if we both worked the night shift that day, but otherwise we never say no to each other. (Maybe it’s different because we don’t have kids yet–but we never abstain during phase 2–I can see how that would be difficult). I just like to tease him about the dishes b/c he has a strong aversion to doing dishes because the dishwater grosses him out.

“…tell him your are his, for better or for worse, and back it up.”

This is good advice Nothing works better to resolve a problem than to talk about your marriage vows together.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Yet, your view seems to take the general “fun” and “joy” out of the whole thing.

Certainly, using some of those terms can bring smile, a bit of excitment into the whole thing. What’s wrong with that ?
These may be “trivial” aspects that bring lots of joy.

You’ll note that I prefaced the whole thing with an “if”. If the wife is too wrapped up in selfishness - then you might try the approach I described. Quite honestly some women don’t get it. They think the embrace is something akin to playing cards, and men are just being selfish when we take it so personally that they so seldom want to “play”.

Actually though, the big “serious” terms can be used in a playful manner which serves the same purpose.

Case-in-point. To this day I remember the first time I used the term marriage debt. A big argument ensued about it. I defended it as a legitimate term, and that it does not make physical intimacy anything less, in fact it raises it up. Now, we use the term very playfully. There’s something about that playful use of such a sober term that highlights the irony.