FRUSTRATION with Protestantism

[pablope]

I disagree. One Catholic priest’s blog I came across said Protestants have “another gospel.” And then there is Michael Voris of “The Vortex” Catholic TV.

And if you don’t restrict this to modern times, there is also the Council of Trent with its anathemas.

Protestants have “another gospel.”

Is this not true? Protestants have many versions…

there is also the Council of Trent with its anathemas

What is offencive about the anathemas of Trent? This is not the first time anathemas have been issued…

 

[Koineman]

Okay…but you can come up with one description of SS that all protestants will agree to?

There are so many versions of SS…so which one is the real one?

That’s a whole separate subject.

So how can this one be an attack?

It’s an erroneous attack on Luther because it misrepresents what he taught.

 

[Koineman]

Okay…but you can come up with one description of SS that all protestants will agree to?

There are so many versions of SS…so which one is the real one?

So how can this one be an attack?

Is this not true? Protestants have many versions…

No, it’s not true.

What is offencive about the anathemas of Trent? This is not the first time anathemas have been issued…

The question is whether the RCC has attacked Protestants. They have.

 

[pablope]

That’s a whole separate subject.

So really…what you are taking as an attack may not be actually an attack…it is what you perceive…since the catholic making a comment or statement about SS is what he may be familiar with and what the description the protestant gave…

It’s an erroneous attack on Luther because it misrepresents what he taught.

 

[pablope]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope
Is this not true? Protestants have many versions…

 

[aidanbradypop]

The prosperity Gospel…does this ring a bell to you? This is a protestant version of the gospel.

The Prosperity Gospel is not a Protestant version of the Gospel. It is barely even a Christian version of the Gospel.

 

[Jubilarian]

I believe one is completely free to disagree with the Catholic Church. Catholics are free to disagree with Evangelicals. Where I draw the line is when the personal attacks come in.

“Disagree” is not what I’m talking about. Debating scripture and doctrinal issues is fair game. Catholics are not calling Protestant churches satanic or somehow including them in Revelation as part of the devils scheme to destroy souls. Unfortunately many Protestants are doing just that, on a regular basis. You either denounce that type of rhetoric or you don’t.

 

[Koineman]

So really…what you are taking as an attack may not be actually an attack…it is what you perceive…since the catholic making a comment or statement about SS is what he may be familiar with and what the description the protestant gave…

 

[Della]

The Prosperity Gospel is not a Protestant version of the Gospel. It is barely even a Christian version of the Gospel.

According to your understanding of the Gospel, but there are many other Protestants for whom it is the truth.

The point is there is no agreement amongst all Protestants as to what the Gospel message really is. I’ve been involved in many denominations and every one of them had a different teaching about it. Some were OSAS, others gradual salvation, and others taught one has to speak in tongues to be saved and still others in which women had to wear their hair long or be damned (I kid you not). Protestantism is rife with major differences about the Gospel. I find it funny that when some Catholic erroneously states: “All Protestants believe_______” Protestants are the first to call him out on it, and now we are being told all Protestants hold to the same Gospel. It’s simply not true.

And someone stated that each church believes it alone has 100% of the truth. No doubt there are some that think that, but the Catholic Church does not teach that. The Church teaches the fullness of the truth subsists within her but that many others, even non-Christians, can have parts of the truth and some Protestants a good deal of it. Just wanted to clarify that point.

 

[Koineman]

They may have…and again, they may not have…and it looks like it is your perception mainly.

Nope. I gave you examples, which you asked for. You apparently just want to nitpick the examples I gave because you are determined not to accept the fact that Catholics do indeed attack Protestants in just the way I described: taking things out of context, attacking straw men, etc. Go back and read my description. I backed up my claim, as you asked. I know what I’ve experienced, read and heard over the past 20+ years. Your attempt to make it seem like RCs do not attack Protestants falsely strikes me as willful ignorance, in which case it will be impossible to convince you of anything–even when I provide actual examples.

Sorry, but I don’t desire to have any conversation with you. God bless.

 

[Della]

Nope. I gave you examples, which you asked for. You apparently just want to nitpick the examples I gave because you are determined not to accept the fact that Catholics do indeed attack Protestants in just the way I described: taking things out of context, attacking straw men, etc. Go back and read my description. I backed up my claim, as you asked. I know what I’ve experienced, read and heard over the past 20+ years. Your attempt to make it seem like RCs do not attack Protestants falsely strikes me as willful ignorance, in which case it will be impossible to convince you of anything–even when I provide actual examples.

Sorry, but I don’t desire to have any conversation with you. God bless.

I agree that there are Catholics that distort the truth about Protestant beliefs. There are even those who distort the truth about Catholic beliefs–and not out of mere ignorance, but to push their own agenda, be it ultra-traditionalists or ultra-modernist. People will do such things even if they shouldn’t. All that proves is that people are sinners. As I stated before, but everyone zoomed around me, is that no one should be passing on misinformation for any reason. If I don’t know what someone believes I should say nothing about it. I have no desire to look like a fool, and neither do people of good will no matter what they believe.

 

[Koineman]

The point is there is no agreement amongst all Protestants as to what the Gospel message really is. I’ve been involved in many denominations and every one of them had a different teaching about it.

First, all Protestants will agree on the gospel as described by Paul in 1 Cor. 15.

Second, this is a whole different subject. The thing that brought all this up was the question of whether people from both camps resort to making false attacks. The statement I originally responded to was this: “Yes, the constant erroneous attacks on the Catholic Church are annoying.”

Some were OSAS, others gradual salvation, and others taught one has to speak in tongues to be saved and still others in which women had to wear their hair long or be damned (I kid you not).

Those are not issues pertaining directly to the actual gospel message, i.e., that Christ died for our sins, rose from the dead 3 days later, and ascended to heaven.

 

[Koineman]

I agree that there are Catholics that distort the truth about Protestant beliefs. There are even those who distort the truth about Catholic beliefs–and not out of mere ignorance, but to push their own agenda, be it ultra-traditionalists or ultra-modernist. People will do such things even if they shouldn’t. All that proves is that people are sinners. As I stated before, but everyone zoomed around me, is that no one should be passing on misinformation for any reason. If I don’t know what someone believes I should say nothing about it. I have no desire to look like a fool, and neither do people of good will no matter what they believe.

I agree completely. People from both sides attack misconceptions, set up straw men, and take things out of context. It’s sinful because it’s dishonest and uncharitable.

 

[aidanbradypop]

According to your understanding of the Gospel, but there are many other Protestants for whom it is the truth.

The point is there is no agreement amongst all Protestants as to what the Gospel message really is. I’ve been involved in many denominations and every one of them had a different teaching about it. Some were OSAS, others gradual salvation, and others taught one has to speak in tongues to be saved and still others in which women had to wear their hair long or be damned (I kid you not). Protestantism is rife with major differences about the Gospel. I find it funny that when some Catholic erroneously states: “All Protestants believe_______” Protestants are the first to call him out on it, and now we are being told all Protestants hold to the same Gospel. It’s simply not true.

And someone stated that each church believes it alone has 100% of the truth. No doubt there are some that think that, but the Catholic Church does not teach that. The Church teaches the fullness of the truth subsists within her but that many others, even non-Christians, can have parts of the truth and some Protestants a good deal of it. Just wanted to clarify that point.

I attend Assembly of God congregation. Speaking in tongues is separate from salvation. Whoever taught that needs to read their up on it a bit more.

Prosperity Gospel is for another thread but I will say that what they teach is not very Christian.

 

[Koineman]

I attend Assembly of God congregation. Speaking in tongues is separate from salvation. Whoever taught that needs to read their up on it a bit more.

This is just another example of an attack based on ignorance. Whoever made it reinforced my point.

 

[Jubilarian]

I disagree. One Catholic priest’s blog I came across said Protestants have “another gospel.” And then there is Michael Voris of “The Vortex” Catholic TV.

And if you don’t restrict this to modern times, there is also the Council of Trent with its anathemas.

What are you disagreeing with? Just google Protestant views of the Catholic Church and take your pick of demonic attacks. You will rarely find Catholics calling Protestants Satanic. Don’t just “disagree” without putting in the effort.

 

[Koineman]

What are you disagreeing with? Just google Protestant views of the Catholic Church and take your pick of demonic attacks. You will rarely find Catholics calling Protestants Satanic. Don’t just “disagree” without putting in the effort.

Apparently you don’t recall the exact words of your statement to which I was responding:

There is some truth to your statement but I was referring more to the on line attack aimed at Catholicism by Protestant denominations. If you do a google search about the views of many Protestant groups you will see a plethora of the "whore of Babylon" type attacks. Many go so far as calling the CC demonic.

You just don’t see that type of approach from Catholics towards Protestants . The Catholic approach is not as extreme. Again, this is not to say Cathokics are incapable of extremism.

While saying Protestants have another gospel is not the same kind of accusation as “whore of babylon,” it is still just as extreme and severe. That was my point.

 

[pablope]

The Prosperity Gospel is not a Protestant version of the Gospel. It is barely even a Christian version of the Gospel.

It certainly is according to some…

But who will speak authoritatively within Protestantism what is and what is not the true gospel?

OSAS comes to mind here too…another version of the protestant gospel.

 

[pablope]

pablope;12834143:

It doesn’t matter what he or she is familiar with or what the Protestant gave. What matters is that it’s an attack that is made based on ignorance. That was my original point. I’m not going to keep arguing with you, which is what you seem to desire.

It is. It is a distortion of the truth in order to make the other person look wrong. That’s an attack. If you’re going to dispute that obvious face, then you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I am just asking you probing questions…and you are perceiving an attack…

It what you said here not an attack… I’m not going to keep arguing with you, which is what you seem to desire…then you just want to argue for the sake of arguing

It doesn’t matter what he or she is familiar with or what the Protestant gave. What matters is that it’s an attack that is made based on ignorance.

But in order for an attack on SS is an legitimate…you should have first an estabished and accepted definition of what SS really is…a defition that all protestants all hold and agree too…but here, you do not even want to give that definition that all protestants will agree too…so how can a catholic attack SS when there is not one definition?

It is. It is a distortion of the truth in order to make the other person look wrong.

Well…how can it be a distortion of truth if the person knew and understood that Luther did not teach works?

 

[aidanbradypop]

It certainly is according to some…

But who will speak authoritatively within Protestantism what is and what is not the true gospel?

OSAS comes to mind here too…another version of the protestant gospel.

Sure