FSSP & embracing Tradition in a secular state! Help!

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LUVArchangelati

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My dear Catholic Brethren…
I need your help …
I am trying to begin (early) gathering some information, interviews & general research on the (re)growth of the Latin Mass in the US… OR (the same with) Opus Dei (which might be easier to read/write on but nearly impossible for interviews)… I would like to research this for my (undergrad) Thesis as well as personal interests. There’s an FSSPX parish downtown (still, a few hours away from me) which I plan to do my on-cite research at. But I’ll still need more than a personal comparison of the Vernacular & Tridentine Mass(es) and a handful of interviews.

I’d like to get ahead by doing some (research/) spiritual reading on my spare time but most of the literature I have come across on the subjects are pure nonsense which I might quote but only as a means of portraying popular negativity towards FSSP & traditionalists in the Church. It’s either SSPX rants (blatantly Anti-“Novus Ordo”) which defeats the purpose of my research *… or it is a blatant assault on Catholic traditionalism and attempt of justification for the so-called “modernization” of the Church… complete w a call for female clerics & toleration of infanticide. -_-

Don’t know if I said so earlier but I’m a traditionalist too. I don’t attend E.F. Mass but it’s not because I don’t want too. As I said, it’s fairly close in distance but would take me more than 2 hours (1-way) to get to Mass and since I must rely on Public Transportation… 4 hours (+) by myself on the bus is hard to justify when there are is a wonderful “traditional” (vernacular) parish just down the street. Nonetheless, I believe I, too, fall into the category “traditional” Roman Catholic…The reason I bring this up is only so that I may say…
I love and respect our faith more than I could possibly convey. I would not use my research as an opportunity to in any way perpetuate or contribute to the rampant lies and misconceptions so popularly spread about traditional Roman Catholicism. I am at a secular university (so I would HAVE to have some academic slant on it all rather than stating 100% of what I actually believe…) but I have thought long & hard about how best to do such. To get around this, I will be portraying E.F. attenders as a subculture within the broader Church which has sprung out of a rejection of the increasingly Protestant & Atheistic progressive “Catholics” in American [ie Pelosi, Biden, etc] … Thus it is an attempt to preserve Catholicism from social adaptation and from being influenced by -both Protestants and Atheists. See … I’m treating it truthfully & delicately 😉

I apologize for being so long-winded. Ultimately, I suppose the question comes to this…
Can anybody recommend books, articles, videos, news stories, clerical (or even papal) speeches / homilies, Bishop statements etc. which might help me in my research?*

(and) if it came down to it… would anybody be willing to do an interview about being a practicing and faithful Traditional Catholic in our “modern” society? (I don’t have a list of Q’s yet but this would probably be best via email).Thanks! May Our Lady pray for you & your family now & always!

PAX VOBISCUM
 
?
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FSSP(X) is fine.
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Sheesh.

Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri

Petri means Peter.

Society of Saint Pius X

X is the Roman numeral for 10. Pope St. Pius X was the tenth pope to take the name Pius.

Two different groups. Very different. Important to get the basics correct.
 
Burdensome1 said:
Sheesh.

Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri

Petri means Peter.

Society of Saint Pius X

X is the Roman numeral for 10. Pope St. Pius X was the tenth pope to take the name Pius.

Two different groups. Very different. Important to get the basics correct.
Click to expand...
You are right. I sometimes get the abbreviations confused. Forgive me.
 
LUVArchangelati said:
My dear Catholic Brethren…
I need your help …
I am trying to begin (early) gathering some information, interviews & general research on the (re)growth of the Latin Mass in the US… OR (the same with) Opus Dei (which might be easier to read/write on but nearly impossible for interviews)… I would like to research this for my (undergrad) Thesis as well as personal interests.
Click to expand...
(1) There’s one academic study that I know of pro-Latin Mass, Vatican II-rejecting Catholics. Here it is:

The Smoke of Satan: Conservative and Traditionalist Dissent in Contemporary American Catholicism [Paperback] Michael W. Cuneo (Author)
amazon.com/The-Smoke-Satan-Conservative-Traditionalist/dp/0801862655

I believe that author is a sociology professor.

(2) The whole SSPX thing is difficult to study since the official Church has said or written so little about the precise objections that the SSPX bishops make. So, really all you have to work with is the SSPX side.

(3) There is this book:

More Catholic Than the Pope: An Inside Look at Extreme Traditionalism [Paperback]
Patrick Madrid (Author), Pete Vere (Author)
amazon.com/More-Catholic-Than-Pope-Traditionalism/dp/1931709262/ref=pd_sim_b_1

It was written by two men who call themselves Catholic apologists. I don’t recall what their credentials actually are. But I read the book and found it very superficial and completely unhelpful. To me, it was just two conservative Catholics who decided to write a screed against the SSPX and other Vatican II-rejecting Catholics. It is published by Our Sunday Visitor, which usually is a reliable Catholic publisher. But in this case, in my view, they failed their readers.

(4) You didn’t mention what academic discipline you want to write your paper from the point of view of. Which is it? History? Sociology? Psychology?

(5) Not everything the SSPX puts out is a rant. There web sites have some calm, well-researched articles. See:
sspx.org/
dici.org/en/
sspxasia.com/
fsspx.org/en/

(6) The whole SSPX thing is such a BIG topic. Of course you need a narrow one for your academic paper. Some ideas:

–Take one or two sociological models of institutional change and apply them to the case of the bishops who resisted the Vatican II renewal (both at the Council and during its implementation in the years after the Council, continuing even now). See which model seems to better fit what Archbishop Lefebvre and his associates were doing.

(7) I haven’t read it, but I assume this book provides a good and accurate history of the SSPX during Archbishop Lefebvre’s lifetime:

Marcel Lefebvre [Paperback]
Bernard Tissier De Mallerais (Author)
amazon.com/Marcel-Lefebvre-Bernard-Tissier-Mallerais/dp/1892331241

(8) If everything in this subject matter is new to you, perhaps you should pick a different topic. All this is so complicated. Different Catholics mean very different things by the phrase “Traditional Catholic.” It is so much easier to write a good senior these if it pertains to a topic you already have been reading about and thinking about for years. Don’t be swayed by your personal interests. You can do personal interest research later. In my view, right now you must thing about your academic and career objectives, and the limited amount of time you have. Just my opinion.

(9) The SSPX are not schismatics. The Church has said so clearly. The SSPX bishops and priests are all clerics in the Catholic Church. But just what their status is in the Church is sort of ill-defined. Generally I hear people saying that they have “irregular canonical status.”

(10) There is a certain danger in researching SSPX issues, since the SSPX come perilously close to saying that Vatican II-era popes have been heretics. They don’t say that, but they come oh-so close. So, take that into consideration

(11) I know Wikipedia can’t be trusted or used as a source. Still, as a general orientation to all this, see their articles on SSPX, Marcel Lefebvre, the Mass, Vatican II, and so on.

P.S. If you wish to pose specific questions about SSPX related matters in this thread, I will try to answer them, if time permits. I am not a scholar, but I have read extensively in SSPX related literature. I have some idea what the key events, issued, and documents are in the view of the SSPX. I also have some ideas about how various persons in the Church’s leadership view the SSPX. What I plainly have no idea about, however, is how this will all end up, in say 5, 10, or 20 years.
 
LUVArchangelati said:
My dear Catholic Brethren…
I need your help …
I am trying to begin (early) gathering some information, interviews & general research on the (re)growth of the Latin Mass in the US… OR (the same with) Opus Dei (which might be easier to read/write on but nearly impossible for interviews)… I would like to research this for my (undergrad) Thesis as well as personal interests. There’s an FSSPX parish downtown (still, a few hours away from me) which I plan to do my on-cite research at. But I’ll still need more than a personal comparison of the Vernacular & Tridentine Mass(es) and a handful of interviews.

I’d like to get ahead by doing some (research/) spiritual reading on my spare time but most of the literature I have come across on the subjects are pure nonsense which I might quote but only as a means of portraying popular negativity towards FSSP & traditionalists in the Church. It’s either SSPX rants (blatantly Anti-“Novus Ordo”) which defeats the purpose of my research *… or it is a blatant assault on Catholic traditionalism and attempt of justification for the so-called “modernization” of the Church… complete w a call for female clerics & toleration of infanticide. -_-

Don’t know if I said so earlier but I’m a traditionalist too. I don’t attend E.F. Mass but it’s not because I don’t want too. As I said, it’s fairly close in distance but would take me more than 2 hours (1-way) to get to Mass and since I must rely on Public Transportation… 4 hours (+) by myself on the bus is hard to justify when there are is a wonderful “traditional” (vernacular) parish just down the street. Nonetheless, I believe I, too, fall into the category “traditional” Roman Catholic…The reason I bring this up is only so that I may say…
I love and respect our faith more than I could possibly convey. I would not use my research as an opportunity to in any way perpetuate or contribute to the rampant lies and misconceptions so popularly spread about traditional Roman Catholicism. I am at a secular university (so I would HAVE to have some academic slant on it all rather than stating 100% of what I actually believe…) but I have thought long & hard about how best to do such. To get around this, I will be portraying E.F. attenders as a subculture within the broader Church which has sprung out of a rejection of the increasingly Protestant & Atheistic progressive “Catholics” in American [ie Pelosi, Biden, etc] … Thus it is an attempt to preserve Catholicism from social adaptation and from being influenced by -both Protestants and Atheists. See … I’m treating it truthfully & delicately 😉

I apologize for being so long-winded. Ultimately, I suppose the question comes to this…
Can anybody recommend books, articles, videos, news stories, clerical (or even papal) speeches / homilies, Bishop statements etc. which might help me in my research?*

(and) if it came down to it… would anybody be willing to do an interview about being a practicing and faithful Traditional Catholic in our “modern” society? (I don’t have a list of Q’s yet but this would probably be best via email).Thanks! May Our Lady pray for you & your family now & always!

PAX VOBISCUM

:)🙂
Click to expand...
 
My sincerest apologies. I am well aware that there are 2 different groups. I have a nasty habit of not wearing my reading glasses when I am on the computer- hence there is often spelling & grammatical errors in my writing this must have slipped past me. . . In this case I guess it works both ways. There is in fact an “FSSPX” [it is the fraternity of SSPX] but there is also (of course) FSSP. In this case, there IS an SSPX parish downtown (or so I’ve heard) but I was referring to wanting to do my research @ St Annes [an FSSP parish]. I know a bit more about the group than the average Catholic but I’m looking to use my research as an opportunity (and excuse 😉 ) to spend some time there & learn more. Actually… it just so happens that one of my little brothers is currently applying to the FSSP seminary in Nebraska.

Thanks
-steph
 
Thank you. I will search the links & consider your advice. I’ll try to find Fssp homilies - I believe this can be a good source to help me “get started” in the Fssp Catholic “culture”. To clarify… I would not be taking on SSPX as a whole, simply the what /how / & why 's of Catholics (FSSP- go-ers) in San Diego (at this time). Despite the lack of published materials, I would much rather focus on FSSP (who is 100% in full communion with the Church) rather than SSPX (who is questionable at best & heretical at worse). I’ve heard many people refer to them as a “heretical” (or sometimes) “schismatic cult” though I am also in a position where I straddle the Catholic subcultures between “moderates” and “traditionalists”… let’s just say I’m thoroughly excited about the recent encouragements of Pope Benedict to re-instate the Tridentine Mass (& other traditions) while my day-to-day peers are not. (Hence I’m online and not consulting these liberal self-proclaimed “Catholics”… a little of topic but I once met a “Catholic” who believed Jesus was an alien :confused: )

In terms of my field… it’s slightly complicated. (Officially) I’m majoring in “Religious Studies” (unofficially) in addition to my actual “Religious Studies” classes (stuff like Biblical Texts, The Devil in Popular American Film, Mystical Traditions in Religion) this means I’m also taking a bunch of classes from all kinds of other fields as long as they pertain to Religion (I mostly stick with my comfort zone - Judeo-Christianity & if I can help it, Catholicism in Medieval Europe… I mostly take (some) Philosophy, Anthropology *, Literature, and my personal favorite- History.
As you can imagine, I cannot conduct field work in Medieval Europe… If I come across a time-machine or Dr Who I’ll reconsider but in the meantime I’ll have to focus elsewhere. My professors typically ask us to keep an open mind & not be afraid to go out of our “comfort zones”- it’s to okay attend rituals & ceremonies in the name of academia (I prefer to use the term “conscience” & maintain that God gave me one for a reason). I am quite stubborn (though I believe I have every right to be) & unlike a considerable portion of my peers, I refuse to attend pagan & satanic cults or any other heretical religion/religious services for the sake of originality & shock factor… (for an assignment, if I HAVE to… I’ll make an exception for Judeo-Christian services).

We’re also supposed to believe that no religion is “better” than another (again- I disagree… Catholicism is the best) and that there is no “right” or “wrong” way to practice religion- its all valid just “different” (Somehow Jim Jones & Charles Manson slipped the mind of the guy who wrote this theory). Also, Religion can never be “the same” in multiple places or throughout time. I disagree since God is of course unchanging and the Church is Universal - but this theory does make my research easier by giving me an excuse to ignore other cases and focus on the (“local”) religion. If you (or anyone else) in interested in the things I’m expected to note/document about the parish, its stuff like…
**
Gender relations*… Is it common for the married women to be homemakers? (For the record I think this is awesome. My mother has/is still staying @ home to raise all 8 of us… Say a prayer for her 🙂 )
*Personal/ Cultural identity … (Without thinking about it) Do you call yourself a Christian, Catholic, Roman Catholic, Traditional Roman Catholic? What are the distinctions you make?
***Language **- both in prayer & home life as well as phrases commonly used - I’ve read about a Mexican convent who would often say (what I believe translates to) “A woman should be 100% Woman, 100% of the time”. Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost? Does it work “through” you? Or “In” you?
*Ritual -(kind of speaks for itself… as Catholics we should know what belongs in this section) but also how it compares to English Sacrament rituals. Are people willing to attend/ how often do they attend English/Spanish Mass?
*Politics I think most of us traditionalists will fall in the politically Conservative arena but I’m also supposed to note things like if the parish (or people I’m interviewing at least) believe that Politics & Religion are (or can be) separate. Also- is attending Latin Mass a means for the people in the San Diego diocese to meet/integrate with like-minded people - or are they there strictly for the non-social worship aspects.

And my overall questions are *supposed *to be something like… Why tradition? Why would American Catholics actively and willingly choose to adopt (most) of the conventions of Pre-Vatican II Catholicism? What does practicing Catholicism “traditionally” even mean? Are the people of St Anne’s (FSSP) parish attracted to the idea of “traditional Catholicism” in order to dispel anxieties over social and political changes in modern society? Is this a means to counter-act and save the Faith from the (so-called) “Progressive” push on Catholicism and its popular cultural image. *Please note I say “so-called” as I do not acknowledge that any “progress” will be made by these liberal heretics. In what world is abortion (Catholic) “progress”?

Sorry this is so long. Hopefully this clears a few things up.
Thanks for taking the time to read & respond. I’ll definitely reconsider your points.
God Bless!
-Steph*
 
It sounds like it would be an interesting paper. Best wishes for your research.
 
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