FSSP or SSPX

[arrysortanez]

Should a true Trad. Catholic go to a SSPX mass, even tough they are not in full communion with the church?
Should the SSPX agree with the offer of the Vatican to reconcile?
Can FSSP priest say the Ordinary form?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Of course the FSSP priest can say the Mass in the Ordinary Form. Any priest with Latin Rite faculties to say Mass can say the Mass in either form. Whether they actually do it or not is another question, but on the question of if they can or not, they most definitely can.

 

[Skeptic92]

Should a true Trad. Catholic go to a SSPX mass, even tough they are not in full communion with the church?
Should the SSPX agree with the offer of the Vatican to reconcile?
Can FSSP priest say the Ordinary form?

A True Catholic should not attend the SSPX, as they are irregular and have no faculties at the present time.

2)Yes, the SSPX should agree with the Vatican to reconcile, and become basically like the FSSP, just with their own Bishops, similar to a religious order.

3)with special dispensation from their superior yes they can, but it is very, VERY rare this permission is given, a Priest i know from the FSSP was at World Youth Day, but wasn’t concelebrating with the Holy Father as he didn’t have the required permission.

 

[aluminumthuribl]

A True Catholic should not attend the SSPX, as they are irregular and have no faculties at the present time.

2)Yes, the SSPX should agree with the Vatican to reconcile, and become basically like the FSSP, just with their own Bishops, similar to a religious order.

3)with special dispensation from their superior yes they can, but it is very, VERY rare this permission is given, a Priest i know from the FSSP was at World Youth Day, but wasn’t concelebrating with the Holy Father as he didn’t have the required permission.

I couldn’t agree more Skeptic92! Thank God for the FSSP!

 

[YoungTradCath]

Should a true Trad. Catholic go to a SSPX mass, even tough they are not in full communion with the church?
Should the SSPX agree with the offer of the Vatican to reconcile?
Can FSSP priest say the Ordinary form?

Any traditionally-minded Catholic may go to an SSPX mass without fear of sinning, as long as no other EF mass is offered within a reasonable distance. That is, if the diocese offers one within a reasonable distance, and so does the SSPX, the diocesan EF must always be the one you pick.

We can only pray.

Of course they can, and I believe absolutely no dispensation is required. But I highly doubt any FSSP priest will say mass in the OF unless he is put in a very tight situation or is concelebrating with the Pope or a bishop, for example, in which concelebration is expected.

 

[aluminumthuribl]

Young Trad, I have a question for you…

I have heard your answer before, however, my question is how far is a “reasonable distance”? In my city there is a weekly EF Mass (at the Cathedral (THANKS BE TO GOD!)) and the SSPX still comes in twice a month. I’m not trying to be flippant just wanted clarification on this standard that I have heard several times. Also, where is the authoritative source that established this standard?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

In The Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

-Cody

 

[YoungTradCath]

Young Trad, I have a question for you…

I have heard your answer before, however, my question is how far is a “reasonable distance”? In my city there is a weekly EF Mass (at the Cathedral (THANKS BE TO GOD!)) and the SSPX still comes in twice a month. I’m not trying to be flippant just wanted clarification on this standard that I have heard several times. Also, where is the authoritative source that established this standard?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

In The Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

-Cody

If the diocesan EF is closer, go to it always.

I don’t have the document as it is rather obscure, but I can almost guarantee it will come up in a manner of hours here. It is a letter from a Vatican Congregation.

 

[Big_Feet]

Any traditionally-minded Catholic may go to an SSPX mass without fear of sinning, as long as no other EF mass is offered within a reasonable distance. That is, if the diocese offers one within a reasonable distance, and so does the SSPX, the diocesan EF must always be the one you pick.

In the case you stated, shouldn’t one actually go to an OF mass, and competely skip the SSPX mass, as it is highly illicit?

 

[YoungTradCath]

In the case you stated, shouldn’t one actually go to an OF mass, and competely skip the SSPX mass, as it is highly illicit?

Nope. The particular letter I am thinking of says it’s alright for traditionally-minded Catholics to go to the SSPX if it’s the only one reasonably available, and even to “perhaps” give a small amount of money.

I am counting on someone digging that document up. In the mean time, I shall search for it.

 

[aluminumthuribl]

I’m of the opinion that “traditionally minded” or not one would have to be in an area were no other mass was being offered. EF or OF.

This question has been answered quite satisfactorily by Michael Arnold one of the CA Apologists here.

Because of the current canonical situation that the SSPX finds themselves in it would be gravely illicit to attend their Masses if another valid and LICIT Mass was available. Just because something is valid doesn’t necessarily mean it is “licit” or legal. I think it is best to always stay in a state of obedience to the Local Ordinary and attend a licit, and valid Mass if there is one available.

In The Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

-Cody

 

[aluminumthuribl]

however, be assured of my continued prayers for the establishment of unity and full communion of the SSPX with the Holy See once again.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I’m of the opinion that “traditionally minded” or not one would have to be in an area were no other mass was being offered. EF or OF.

This question has been answered quite satisfactorily by Michael Arnold one of the CA Apologists here.

Because of the current canonical situation that the SSPX finds themselves in it would be gravely illicit to attend their Masses if another valid and LICIT Mass was available. Just because something is valid doesn’t necessarily mean it is “licit” or legal. I think it is best to always stay in a state of obedience to the Local Ordinary and attend a licit, and valid Mass if there is one available.

In The Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

-Cody

I respectfully disagree with Madam Arnold, and I am currently in the process of digging up relevant proof.

 

[Big_Feet]

however, be assured of my continued prayers for the establishment of unity and full communion of the SSPX with the Holy See once again.

Ditto

 

[callmeChris]

FSSP all the way my friend. The SSPX is stubborn to all the Pope’s pleas and letters to rejoin full communion with Rome.

CNA reported on November 29, 2011:

The Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X says he will inform the Vatican “in the next few days” that they cannot give the doctrinal reassurances required of them to advance reconciliation with the Catholic Church.

“It is true that this Doctrinal Preamble cannot receive our endorsement,” said Bishop Bernard Fellay on the society’s website, Nov. 28.

However, Bishop Fellay said his understanding is that the document is “not a definite text” and that it “can be clarified and modified.” In particular, he would like to discuss what the Vatican means when it says that there is “leeway” for a “legitimate discussion” on the documents and legacy of the Second Vatican Council.

“What is the extent of this leeway? The proposal that I will make in the next few days to the Roman authorities and their response in turn will enable us to evaluate our remaining options,” he said.

The breakaway Society of St. Pius X was presented with the “doctrinal preamble” or statement of principles by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in September.

The document outlined doctrinal points that the Vatican needs clarified before the 23-year rift between the two sides can be healed. The society has been discussing its response for the past two months.

Bishop Fellay said that to give a “flat refusal,” to the Vatican offer would be the “simplest thing, perhaps, but not the most courteous,” and since the note that accompanies it “foresees the possibility of making clarifications,” it seems “necessary to ask for them instead of refusing them a priori.” He added that this “in no way prejudges the response that we will give.”

If the society agrees with the doctrinal preamble, they may be able to enter into the Church as a personal prelature—a jurisdiction without geographical boundaries designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives.

But Bishop Fellay said that setting aside theological differences “in order to obtain a canonical status” would “expose” the society “to the danger of seeing the same differences crop up inevitably, which would make the canonical status not just precarious but quite simply unliveable.”

The Society of St. Pius X was founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in 1970 as a response to what he described as errors that had crept into the Catholic Church following the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council.

The society has had a strained relationship with the Vatican since Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated four bishops against the orders of Pope John Paul II in 1988.

 

[michaelmas]

What is the story on the Pius V catholics? I use to be a part of this church and learned much of my faith through them. Has there been any move to have them back with the Pope???

 

[YoungTradCath]

What is the story on the Pius V catholics? I use to be a part of this church and learned much of my faith through them. Has there been any move to have them back with the Pope???

Oh don’t even go there. Sedevacantism.

 

[aluminumthuribl]

I respectfully disagree with Madam Arnold, and I am currently in the process of digging up relevant proof.

You’re well within your right to disagree with Mr. Arnold, however, while SSPX Priests posses valid ordination to the sacred Priesthood, because of their illicit ordinations they are suspended a divinis from celebrating the sacraments. Pursuant to Can. 265 Every cleric must be incardinated either in a particular church or personal prelature, or in an institute of consecrated life or society endowed with this faculty, in such a way that unattached or transient clerics are not allowed at all.
( I know that SSPX issues have been argued ad nauseam, and I am not trying to argue. However, for a faithful Catholic to skip a licit Mass in favor of a SSPX illicit Mass to me is incomprehensible. I being a traditionally minded Catholic understand that *“melior est enim oboedientia quam victimae” * (obedience is better than sacrifice).

It is my humble opinion (for what it’s worth) that is is better to be in obedience to the Local Ordinary and attend a Mass that is licit. Leave the SSPX for now until their canonical situation is worked out. I am confident that this question will be resolved, and that the SSPX will once again submit to the authority of the Supreme Pontiff and we can enjoy full communion once again.

Ad Jesum per Mariam,

-Cody

 

[LoyalViews]

What is the story on the Pius V catholics? I use to be a part of this church and learned much of my faith through them. Has there been any move to have them back with the Pope???

Like another poster said, I wouldn’t derail the thread to talk about the SSPV.

They’re sedevacantists, actually, they’re gone past sedevacantism. They have their own brand of sedevacantism, and even then it varies to what each member believes. The Daughters of Mary, a religious community affiliated with the SSPV believe they have “no idea whether the Chair of St Peter is vacant or not”, as they explained to me in an email. And then, there are those who think the Holy Father is an apostate, a heretic, not the true Pope. But we know that THAT is heresy. They split from the SSPX. That is an answer, and I don’t want to sound negative in any way, but let’s leave it at that because I don’t want to derail the thread (hurray for smilies! )

God Bless :byzsoc:
Happy Christmas!

 

[Lancer]

I like Father Z’s clarity on the Code of Canon Law…and…his personal counsel to the particular situation that he was answering.

Personally, in this current posted question…I would go to OF inside Latin Church versus/before I would attend the EF outside the Latin Church…that is, before I would assist at a SSPX EF Holy Mass. Just a personal decision.

Pax Christi

Fr. Z’s Blog – QUAERITUR: attending an SSPX on a Sunday – obligation fulfilled?
wdtprs.com/blog/2008/04/quaeritur-attending-an-sspx-on-a-sunday-obligation-fulfilled/
Posted on 10 April 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

I got a question via e-mail:
I have very close friends who attend the SSPX masses. They have invited me to attend the confirmation of one of their children in St Mary Kansas. If I go I will be there on through a Sunday and staying at their home. My question is: If I attend Sunday mass at a SSPX chapel, will I still need to attend a diocese mass as well to fulfill my Sunday obligation? I have heard yes and no on this question from different priests. I don’t normally attend SSPX masses but being that my friends have extended this invitation and I would be staying at their home, I am trying to discern the right course in this situation.

Rest assured that if you attend Mass on Sunday at the SSPX church, you will have fulfilled your Sunday Mass obligation.

It is clear in the 1983 Code of Canon Law that if you attend Mass in a Catholic Rite on the Sunday or its vigil, you fulfill your obligation. There is no question that the SSPX Mass will be a validly celebrated Mass in a Catholic Rite.

At the same time,** I will not recommend that you receive Holy Communion** during the Mass under these particular conditions.

 

[TrueLight]

Excerpt from 2003 Letter from Msgr Perl
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts

In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.

1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.

2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.

Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was “Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass” and our response was:

“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”

His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:

“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”

His third question was: “Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection a Pius X Mass” to which we responded:

“3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified.”

The point is an SSPX mass will never be recommended because they are not in full communion with Rome. Also, it is very possible to begin to adhere to SSPX beliefs about Rome, if one frequently attends.

However, if one Sunday, you are at a location where you cannot make it to an EF mass, this letter says it would be okay to attend an SSPX. It doesn’t say you have to go to an OF.