FSSP or SSPX

[aluminumthuribl]

I like Father Z’s clarity on the Code of Canon Law…and…his personal counsel to the particular situation that he was answering.

Personally, in this current posted question…I would go to OF inside Latin Church versus/before I would attend the EF outside the Latin Church…that is, before I would assist at a SSPX EF Holy Mass. Just a personal decision.

Pax Christi

Ditto

and as said just above… I too am thankful for smileys!

 

[JM3]

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts

However, if one Sunday, you are at a location where you cannot make it to an EF mass, this letter says it would be okay to attend an SSPX. It doesn’t say you have to go to an OF.

Also from your link:

“You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a ‘right’ to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a ‘right’. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church’s law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

I like Father Z’s clarity on the Code of Canon Law…and…his personal counsel to the particular situation that he was answering.

Personally, in this current posted question…I would go to OF inside Latin Church versus/before I would attend the EF outside the Latin Church…that is, before I would assist at a SSPX EF Holy Mass. Just a personal decision.

Pax Christi

I would go with what the local bishop would say. Although most bishops are silent on the matter which I think they should make a clarification for the peace of mind of their flock. If there are those who still defy the bishop, then they are performing an act of schism by defying their bishop (if you are not in communion with your bishop, you are not in communion with Rome). In places like the Archdiocese of Davao, the bishop has told his flock to stay away from the SSPX chapel. So at least in that place there is conclusive and authoritative evidence that a Catholic in good conscience cannot go to the SSPX chapel.

 

[TrueLight]

Also from your link:

Okay, I saw that since I posted the link to the whole article.

It doesn’t change the fact that:

If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

I’m not saying that I would EVER suggest that a person go to an SSPX mass. It’s a delicate situation and I can definitely see that regular attendance can turn you into an “SSPX’er”, and all the beliefs that come with that. No offense to those who attend SSPX masses regularly. But if someone wants to know if they can go if there is no EF nearby, the answer is clear to me.

I object to the idea that you HAVE to go to an OF mass. I know it’s hard to accept that there are those who only attend the EF, but since we do not live during a time where we have to hide in the catacombs, we have that option.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Okay, I saw that since I posted the link to the whole article.

It doesn’t change the fact that:

I’m not saying that I would EVER suggest that a person go to an SSPX mass. It’s a delicate situation and I can definitely see that regular attendance can turn you into an “SSPX’er”, and all the beliefs that come with that. No offense to those who attend SSPX masses regularly. But if someone wants to know if they can go if there is no EF nearby, the answer is clear to me.

I object to the idea that you HAVE to go to an OF mass. I know it’s hard to accept that there are those who only attend the EF, but since we do not live during a time where we have to hide in the catacombs, we have that option.

Not anymore . Oremus pro Pontifice.

 

[freshwind]

We attended an SSPX service while travelling, there is no Latin Mass where we live that is easy to attend and my wife had never been to a latin mass, and the SSPX Chapel was right within our movements, timewise and travel wise…so we went.

as I posted elsewhere, the Mass was by the book 1962 missal

the homily was about our sinfullness and the need to pray for help and assistance…he quoted church fathers, popes and finished with the request to pray many rosaries for the Holy Father as he has a great burden on his shoulders in striving to lead the Church- the Holy Father has to try to lead us, weak and as imperfect as we are… also…we must never forget to ask Mary to be his support, there was absolutely nothing at this little chapel in this mass that gave any indication that it was not 100% Catholic.
I pray for the resolution of this situation.

 

[Cat]

It seems to me that as long as people continue to attend the SSPX Masses, the SSPX has no motivation whatsoever to regularize their relationship with Rome.

Why should they work towards reconciliation when people keep coming to their Masses, giving them donations, and defending them in discussion? They have what they want–people in the pews and supporters who give money and verbal defense. Rome isn’t taking anything away from them.

However…if everyone, especially traditional-leaning Catholics, were to simply stop attending SSPX Masses, and the SSPX was left with only a few people in attendance at their Masses, and only a few dollars of donations, and only a few people who are willing to defend them in discussion–now THAT would motivate the SSPX real quick to get together with Rome and do some serious discussion with intent to reconcile.

Make sense?

 

[JM3]

I object to the idea that you HAVE to go to an OF mass.

That is a matter for your conscience. To me, it is illogical to prefer an illegal Mass to a legal one. Are you in communion with Rome when you do this? What are your actions saying?

I’m not making judgements on you or anyone else. Just know what you are doing and why you are doing it. What is in your heart will be seen by your actions.

 

[TrueLight]

It seems to me that as long as people continue to attend the SSPX Masses, the SSPX has no motivation whatsoever to regularize their relationship with Rome.

I think that will happen when the Holy See makes a definitive statement that Catholics are not allowed to attend SSPX masses.

 

[jmj1984]

It seems to me that as long as people continue to attend the SSPX Masses, the SSPX has no motivation whatsoever to regularize their relationship with Rome.

Why should they work towards reconciliation when people keep coming to their Masses, giving them donations, and defending them in discussion? They have what they want–people in the pews and supporters who give money and verbal defense. Rome isn’t taking anything away from them.

However…if everyone, especially traditional-leaning Catholics, were to simply stop attending SSPX Masses, and the SSPX was left with only a few people in attendance at their Masses, and only a few dollars of donations, and only a few people who are willing to defend them in discussion–now THAT would motivate the SSPX real quick to get together with Rome and do some serious discussion with intent to reconcile.

Make sense?

I am afraid this simply displays a complete ignorance of the society’s position, if the society was not motivated to discuss things with Rome it simply wouldn’t, nor would it tell off or expel those who refuse or condemn talking with Rome -as it has done on many occasions-.

The SSPX most certainly do not have what they want, which is (as far as they are concerned) a Rome that rejects its errors and agrees with them, that they want this can be picked up from merely skim reading any of Archbishop Lefebvres works or anything by the other superiors of the Society.

As for your painting the Society as an organisation that simply cares about money and people attending its masses I shall not even dignify such an absurd accusation with a response.

 

[w_s_s]

It seems to me that as long as people continue to attend the SSPX Masses, the SSPX has no motivation whatsoever to regularize their relationship with Rome.

Why should they work towards reconciliation when people keep coming to their Masses, giving them donations, and defending them in discussion? They have what they want–people in the pews and supporters who give money and verbal defense. Rome isn’t taking anything away from them.

However…if everyone, especially traditional-leaning Catholics, were to simply stop attending SSPX Masses, and the SSPX was left with only a few people in attendance at their Masses, and only a few dollars of donations, and only a few people who are willing to defend them in discussion–now THAT would motivate the SSPX real quick to get together with Rome and do some serious discussion with intent to reconcile.

Make sense?

It seems clear to me that you completely misunderstand the SSPX.

Money and warm bodies in the pews are of little fundamental interest to them, although appreciated for their usefulness in perpetuating their work.

What the SSPX wants is to preserve the Catholic Faith and Catholic Priesthood as both were understood and practiced pre-Vatican II, that is all.

 

[TrueLight]

That is a matter for your conscience. To me, it is illogical to prefer an illegal Mass to a legal one. Are you in communion with Rome when you do this? What are your actions saying?

I’m not making judgements on you or anyone else. Just know what you are doing and why you are doing it. What is in your heart will be seen by your actions.

I hate to tell you this, but the smiley face doesn’t change the fact that you called me illogical. Dialogue over.

 

[w_s_s]

That is a matter for your conscience. To me, it is illogical to prefer an illegal Mass to a legal one. Are you in communion with Rome when you do this? What are your actions saying?

I question whether you know what “communion with Rome” means. All members of the SSPX are in full communion with Rome. That is why they fall under Roman authority and can be suspended in the first place. If they were out of communion with Rome, they couldn’t be suspended.

To me, it is illogical to prefer an OF Mass to an EF Mass, but I have heard that there are some Catholic like that out there somewhere.

 

[TrueLight]

As for your painting the Society as an organisation that simply cares about money and people attending its masses…

I’d have to agree with this. It’s not a number’s or money game at all. Whether we agree with everything they believe or not, or whether they are in error or not, it is important to understand that most are Catholics trying to live lives faithful to God.

If we keep that in mind, then we’ll pray fervently for a resolution.

 

[ProVobis]

Are you in communion with Rome when you do this?

As long as Canon Law allows your attendance at any Catholic Rite to fulfill your obligation and your only reason for going is to attend an EF, what’s the problem?

 

[JM3]

As long as Canon Law allows your attendance at any Catholic Rite to fulfill your obligation and your only reason for going is to attend an EF, what’s the problem?

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts

“You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a ‘right’ to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a ‘right’. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church’s law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice.”

The distain and disregard for the OF is getting very tiresome.

 

[ProVobis]

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts

I read this in your reference:

…If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

I’ll agree that it CAN be a problem but attending an SSPX Mass doesn’t have to be.

On the point of anyone having a “right” to sacraments of his preferred rite, my understanding is that the 2007 SP clarified that all sacraments may be performed now according to the old rites. That is not to say, however, that suspended priests have faculties to perform them other than baptism and communion.

 

[w_s_s]

"You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a ‘right’ to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a ‘right’. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church’s law

This quote is out-of-date. As of 7/7/2007, the EF is no longer an “exception to the Church’s law”.

JM3:

The distain and disregard for the OF is getting very tiresome.

So… Preferring the EF is equal to “disdain and disregard for the OF”, but presumably, preferring the OF isn’t “disdain and disregard for the EF”, right?

Or do you freely admit to your “disdain and disregard” for a legal and legitimate form of Mass that was the normative form of Mass for almost 500 years and, in fact, differs little from the form of the Mass used for the 1000 years before that?

 

[YoungTradCath]

This quote is out-of-date. As of 7/7/2007, the EF is no longer an “exception to the Church’s law”.

So… Preferring the EF is equal to “disdain and disregard for the OF”, but presumably, preferring the OF isn’t “disdain and disregard for the EF”, right?

Or do you freely admit to your “disdain and disregard” for a legal and legitimate form of Mass that was the normative form of Mass for almost 500 years and, in fact, differs little from the form of the Mass used for the 1000 years before that?

You’re going to be hard-pressed to find a rational, well-versed Catholic who is against the EF. Won’t happen. The problem here is that some people see the SSPX’s being canonically irregular as a prohibition to going to their masses, while others don’t.

There are plenty of canonically regular groups–Societies of Apostolic Life, dioceses, etc.–that offer the EF alongside the OF or exclusively. That’s another problem. When one of these masses is near, it is obligatory to skip out on the SSPX mass to go to a licit mass.