B
bscastro
Guest
I think theoretically you are correct. However, it is a near occasion of sin and the OP did confess to fornication to the priest, which perhaps led to the issue.
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sw85
Guest
Cohabiting is in fact a sin, so even if you found a priest who would absolve you, the absolution would be invalid without an intention to repair your life. The FSSP priest didn’t withhold absolution out of spite but because he knew the absolution would be invalid.Okay…
A little background: My boyfriend and I have been together well over 5 years now, we’re both in our mid to late 20’s. We have been living together nearly the whole time of our relationship. He was Catholic when I met him, and I just entered the church this Easter. He really started practicing Catholicism more seriously when I was going through RCIA at an ordinary form parish that was nearby (and where I received my Baptism, etc…). During my time in RCIA we had been trying not to sleep in the same bed together and not fornicate - which is hard to do while cohabiting…A few months ago I found out that there was an FSSP parish not too far away - so we went to try it out; I absolutely loved it - and he hated it!
Fast forward: This Saturday I really wanted to go to daily mass at the FSSP parish and he went also - we decided to go to confession together; and I was first. Well…I confessed to fornication and soon the priest got out of me that we were living together and that he would not absolve me until we move apart (which up until this point I did not realize it was so horrible and mortal to be in occasion of sin). Let’s just say my confession made him nearly late to say mass and unable to hear others.
My boyfriend is so angry about me trying to move out. He says that I’m only doing it because the Priest told me to and that I should seek out a Priest that will absolve me - but I feel that is the wrong thing to do. It feels like he wants me to be Catholic…but not THAT Catholic…haha…He also tells me that he will never step foot in that parish again saying “IT’S NOT 1962 ANYMORE”
I just don’t know what to say to explain to him why I am doing this. I tell him that it is for us and that it could only improve our relationship - he says otherwise and won’t even listen to me on the subject.
I am at a loss for words - I called to make an appointment to speak with the Priest more about this, but haven’t scheduled anything yet…
Any good advice out there as to ways I can explain this to my boyfriend? Has anyone else gone through this?
Your boyfriend is simply in the wrong on this. You two need to separate until you’re married. If he doesn’t like the arrangement, too bad; he needs to find a way to deal with it. It’s really that simple.
C
constantconvert
Guest
I was in this exact situation 20 years ago. Instead of moving out we quickly got married. You are doing the right thing by moving out, and are very brave. I know you love your boyfriend and you don’t want to lose him, but what kind of husband do you want? Do you want a husband that is dragging his heels concerning things of the Church and God at every turn? Or someone who loves God and who you can be spiritually well matched with? Maybe moving out will open his eyes and he will get serious about his spiritual growth. Let my mistake of 20 years be a cautionary tale for you, if I had to do it all over again I would move out, because the last 20 years has been very bumpy for us. It is too difficult to build a life with someone who, while they may be Catholic, does not have the same commitment to God as you have.
M
Melchior_1
Guest
Quick question; why is now not the right time for marriage? Don’t say “money”, because if you get a banns of marriage you can get married for less than 100 bucks.
He may have told you to move out and refused absolution because marriage isn’t on the agenda. The fact that marriage isn’t on the horizon is a pretty clear indicator that he felt there’s a good chance nothing would be done to rectify the situation.
There’s three ways for this situation to get better:
- Live like brother and sister. This has been tried, it’s not working out for either of you.
- Get married.
- Move out.
Also, this has ZERO things to do with a FSSP parish or Ordinary Form parish, and everything to do with your boyfriend wanting to continue to live with you, and enjoying the near occasion(s) of sin.
K
Khalid
Guest
You are doing the right thing on valid and correct advice from the priest. A priest who acted differently is much similar to one who doesn’t see the difference between artificial birth control and natural family planning, so is indifferent to both. It’s not a “1962 thing”, it’s a doctrine of the Church, stated clearly in the Bible itself: “neither fornicators, nor thieves, nor adulterers, nor the greedy…shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.”
I’ll leave it to others here how such a reaction is proof-positive that your boyfriend isn’t in it for “you”, or the “long haul”, or marriage, but for instant carnal gratification and easy and frequent access to sex. He’s still a Catholic - in case some try to declare him a heretic - but just a sinful one, as we all are, but, sadly, unrepentantly sinful and seemingly unwilling to repent, as the Holy Spirit has not convicted him of sin in his soul, or he hath hardened his heart. The best, the only way to proceed is to move out, and let him react, and see what he does - if he wants a proper relationship - marriage, and not just sex - he’ll get over it.
I would normally say the right thing is to get married - but, having gone down the path that you have, and seeing how your boyfriend reacted, makes me doubt the wisdom of such a decision, to join in unbreakable matrimony with such a partner; although only you can decide, stubbornly unrepentant sin and vitriol and sarcasm against Catholic teachings and a faithful priest do not make the picture shine.
As far as living together without fornicating, it is possible, and, lest I think myself saintly, it doesn’t require a great deal of willpower (of which I am in short supply): I lived with, as circumstances demanded, a female roommate for nearly two years, probably half of which with no other roommate. As a Muslim, I co-habitated with a woman I was engaged to (and, actually, had carnal relations with for the once and only time that I shall, before we co-habitated), and, after converting to Christianity, remained living with her for almost a year - that year was the lion’s share of the no-other-roommates time - without engaging (nor, honestly, being greatly tempted to, thank the Lord for the graces he hath heaped upon me) in carnal relations a single time during the entire span. (And, at first, having to divert relatively heavy and constant advances.) Near occasion of sin, yes, but it doesn’t always lead to sin - it only usually does, so, for wisdom and safety, situations as such should be avoided if it is possible to avoid them.
“Trying” not to sleep in the same bed together is a cop-out. Maybe lust can overtake one due to concupiscence, in the “heat of the moment”, but where one will sleep within a property one has rights to is fully under the control of the will even in unregenerate man. “Sleeping in the same bed together” can’t overtake one like lust, unless it is a direct result of first being overtaken by lust and immediately falling asleep (this happens in American movies, but I don’t know if it happens in real life).
In your situation, since you have since relapsed, and on the direction of your confessor, that is not an appropriate solution, unless the alternative would be homelessness. It wasn’t an appropriate solution for me, either, but, being the sinner I am, it was the easiest, the “path of least resistance” or of inertia.
All it takes are the graces of Christ, the Church, and the Sacraments, absolution, and, accompanying that resolution, contrition and a firm and true resolution to not fall in to old behavior or to repeat the sin. As I was less adapted to sexual behavior, it was undoubtedly easier for me, but, with grace, all things are possible. “I can do everything through Christ who giveth me strength.”
Edit: reading former posts, the above is merely a more detailed exposition (especially of the “live like siblings” part) of a multiple choice question posed earlier:
I’ll leave it to others here how such a reaction is proof-positive that your boyfriend isn’t in it for “you”, or the “long haul”, or marriage, but for instant carnal gratification and easy and frequent access to sex. He’s still a Catholic - in case some try to declare him a heretic - but just a sinful one, as we all are, but, sadly, unrepentantly sinful and seemingly unwilling to repent, as the Holy Spirit has not convicted him of sin in his soul, or he hath hardened his heart. The best, the only way to proceed is to move out, and let him react, and see what he does - if he wants a proper relationship - marriage, and not just sex - he’ll get over it.
I would normally say the right thing is to get married - but, having gone down the path that you have, and seeing how your boyfriend reacted, makes me doubt the wisdom of such a decision, to join in unbreakable matrimony with such a partner; although only you can decide, stubbornly unrepentant sin and vitriol and sarcasm against Catholic teachings and a faithful priest do not make the picture shine.
As far as living together without fornicating, it is possible, and, lest I think myself saintly, it doesn’t require a great deal of willpower (of which I am in short supply): I lived with, as circumstances demanded, a female roommate for nearly two years, probably half of which with no other roommate. As a Muslim, I co-habitated with a woman I was engaged to (and, actually, had carnal relations with for the once and only time that I shall, before we co-habitated), and, after converting to Christianity, remained living with her for almost a year - that year was the lion’s share of the no-other-roommates time - without engaging (nor, honestly, being greatly tempted to, thank the Lord for the graces he hath heaped upon me) in carnal relations a single time during the entire span. (And, at first, having to divert relatively heavy and constant advances.) Near occasion of sin, yes, but it doesn’t always lead to sin - it only usually does, so, for wisdom and safety, situations as such should be avoided if it is possible to avoid them.
“Trying” not to sleep in the same bed together is a cop-out. Maybe lust can overtake one due to concupiscence, in the “heat of the moment”, but where one will sleep within a property one has rights to is fully under the control of the will even in unregenerate man. “Sleeping in the same bed together” can’t overtake one like lust, unless it is a direct result of first being overtaken by lust and immediately falling asleep (this happens in American movies, but I don’t know if it happens in real life).
In your situation, since you have since relapsed, and on the direction of your confessor, that is not an appropriate solution, unless the alternative would be homelessness. It wasn’t an appropriate solution for me, either, but, being the sinner I am, it was the easiest, the “path of least resistance” or of inertia.
All it takes are the graces of Christ, the Church, and the Sacraments, absolution, and, accompanying that resolution, contrition and a firm and true resolution to not fall in to old behavior or to repeat the sin. As I was less adapted to sexual behavior, it was undoubtedly easier for me, but, with grace, all things are possible. “I can do everything through Christ who giveth me strength.”
Edit: reading former posts, the above is merely a more detailed exposition (especially of the “live like siblings” part) of a multiple choice question posed earlier:
- Live like siblings - failed.
- Marriage - not an option, and probably not wise seeing your boyfriend’s reaction.
- Move out.
J
JRKH
Guest
This is good advice right here…
Around here we sometimes have conversations about the co-habiting but not fornicating issue. The people involved often have the best of intentions but it’s bound to be difficult.
You and your boyfriend have demonstrated that, even with the best of intentions, you have faltered and the priest has rightly told you that - if separate beds is insufficient distance, then separate abodes must be the next step. I can understand how tough this must be.
But as said above…your boyfriend needs to step up to the plate here…His Commitment to his faith AND his love for you are being put to the test.
Consider [BIBLEDRB]Mt 22:36-40[/BIBLEDRB]
As soon as he said that he didn’t want you to be “That Catholic”…he failed for he is placing himself - his self love ahead of his love for God AND ahead of the good of your eternal soul. So he neither loves God with his whole heart, nor does he love you as he loves himself.
You, on the other hand, are demonstrating the correct order of things.
You are putting Love of God over Love of self.
You are also putting your love for your boyfriend over love of self.
You are doing, not what is “convenient”, but what is hard - and you are doing it for his eternal soul - as well as your own.
I think that you are courageous and more-over I think you are absolutely right to move out.
He needs to understand (if he is able) that what you are doing is because you Love him. Then he needs to prove whether he truly loves you or not.
Peace
James
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
This. The situation you are in isn’t a good one whether you are Catholic or not. Either you two are ready to get married and so should do so as soon as possible (which doesn’t include saving up for a house or a big wedding). Or you aren’t going to get married, so you need to move out and get on with your own life.
I’m suprised that neither you or your boyfriend have heard this before in confession or during your preparation for the sacraments. This is not “old fashioned” teaching, but the current and never-changing teaching of God.
If you can get your boyfriend to speak to your usual priest that would be great. But even if he doesn’t, you need to decide if you want to continue in mortal sin or rectify your life.
D
DL82
Guest
[Deleted]
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Rha_hea
Guest
I say now isn’t the right time due to this upcoming huge change of me moving out. It just feels like marriage is not something to rush into at this time. It would be like putting a big band-aid on the situation.
M
Melchior_1
Guest
I understand this, but lets say the priest didn’t ask you to move out. What was the timeline for marriage then?
M
Melchior_1
Guest
Rha_hea,
I went to a priest who belongs to the Companions of the Cross, and he gave me some sage advice in the Confessional once.
People used to get married young. One of the reasons for this was that a lot of couples wanted to have sex not out of lust, but out of love. But they weren’t married!
It wasn’t the act of sex itself wasn’t bad, you see, but it was the TIMING that made it bad. If they got married, the timing became the right time due to the consummation of the Sacrament and continual renewal of said Sacrament through the marital act.
I went to a priest who belongs to the Companions of the Cross, and he gave me some sage advice in the Confessional once.
People used to get married young. One of the reasons for this was that a lot of couples wanted to have sex not out of lust, but out of love. But they weren’t married!
It wasn’t the act of sex itself wasn’t bad, you see, but it was the TIMING that made it bad. If they got married, the timing became the right time due to the consummation of the Sacrament and continual renewal of said Sacrament through the marital act.
R
Rha_hea
Guest
This is unfortunately true.
R
Rich_C
Guest
The priest is right and is genuinely concerned about your soul, listen to him.
Also, I don’t know God’s plan for your life but it sounds to me like you should reevaluate your current relationship. Studies have shown that pre-marital sex makes it very difficult for people to exercise good judgment about the person they are seeing. In other words, until you have lived apart from your boyfriend and stopped sleeping with him for at least a few months, your natural body chemistry will not let you think as critically as you should about his suitability as a future husband. Time apart and chastity will let you see the relationship in a whole new light so you can decide whether he will help you get to Heaven or not (the principle aim of the vocation of marriage).
I’ll pray that you can find a way to amicably move out soon, and that you can soon be in a state of grace again so you can listen to what God is telling you to do (whether to sanctify your relationship with chastity or move on).
Also, I don’t know God’s plan for your life but it sounds to me like you should reevaluate your current relationship. Studies have shown that pre-marital sex makes it very difficult for people to exercise good judgment about the person they are seeing. In other words, until you have lived apart from your boyfriend and stopped sleeping with him for at least a few months, your natural body chemistry will not let you think as critically as you should about his suitability as a future husband. Time apart and chastity will let you see the relationship in a whole new light so you can decide whether he will help you get to Heaven or not (the principle aim of the vocation of marriage).
I’ll pray that you can find a way to amicably move out soon, and that you can soon be in a state of grace again so you can listen to what God is telling you to do (whether to sanctify your relationship with chastity or move on).
H
HelenRose
Guest
I want to talk to you as a Grandma to a loved grand daughter. If the time is not right now for marriage, it never will be. You have given this young man five years of your life. He apparently does not intend to give you anything in return.
The teachings of the Church is not a list of do’s and don’ts. The teachings of the Church are lessons to be learned for our benefit. A young woman involved with a young man who is not interested in commitment, who can not see her spiritual pain, nor is interested in her journey toward God, is a young woman waiting for heart break.
My advice is to move out, move up, move toward God. Find out who you are as a child of God. Search for God’s plan for you. You will find joy and happiness with or without a man.
G
giuseppeTO
Guest
Since you chose to post this on the Traditional Catholics Forum, you are likely to get a more traditional perspective on Catholic relationships in general. So, if I may, the advice from your FSSP priest was certainly rock solid sound and spot on. Our Lord knew that this is the grace and advice you needed and that’s why you find yourself dealing with the reality of your situation. Traditionally, the church has discouraged modern dating … that is, dating for the fun of dating. There is certainly a part of each relationship where we should be getting to know eachother to make a determination whether you both are willing to put Christ at the center of your relationship in Holy Matrimony. But certainly not 5 years. If that is not one or both of your intent, you should move on. And of course, fornication is a mortal sin and the only point in living together as you are is with the conscious or subconscious intent to gratify that sin. Each of you could certainly find other same-sex roommates if need be.
After six months, IMHO, if you haven’t decided to marry then your love is primarily “of the body” and not based on the mutual love of Christ and his mission for man and women. I would move on with my life quickly and cultivate more relationships in the parish of your FSSP priest where you may tend to find more like-minded Catholics and Catholic family examples.
God bless you - and you have already been been truly blessed with this grace of discernment, whether you realize it or not.
C
Chatter163
Guest
You’re wrong. Consider yourself corrected.
C
couponfit
Guest
I think that your faith is taking you to a place where your relationship cannot follow. I would suspect from what I have read it’s time to break up the relationship.Okay…
A little background: My boyfriend and I have been together well over 5 years now, we’re both in our mid to late 20’s. We have been living together nearly the whole time of our relationship. He was Catholic when I met him, and I just entered the church this Easter. He really started practicing Catholicism more seriously when I was going through RCIA at an ordinary form parish that was nearby (and where I received my Baptism, etc…). During my time in RCIA we had been trying not to sleep in the same bed together and not fornicate - which is hard to do while cohabiting…A few months ago I found out that there was an FSSP parish not too far away - so we went to try it out; I absolutely loved it - and he hated it!
Fast forward: This Saturday I really wanted to go to daily mass at the FSSP parish and he went also - we decided to go to confession together; and I was first. Well…I confessed to fornication and soon the priest got out of me that we were living together and that he would not absolve me until we move apart (which up until this point I did not realize it was so horrible and mortal to be in occasion of sin). Let’s just say my confession made him nearly late to say mass and unable to hear others.
My boyfriend is so angry about me trying to move out. He says that I’m only doing it because the Priest told me to and that I should seek out a Priest that will absolve me - but I feel that is the wrong thing to do. It feels like he wants me to be Catholic…but not THAT Catholic…haha…He also tells me that he will never step foot in that parish again saying “IT’S NOT 1962 ANYMORE”
I just don’t know what to say to explain to him why I am doing this. I tell him that it is for us and that it could only improve our relationship - he says otherwise and won’t even listen to me on the subject.
I am at a loss for words - I called to make an appointment to speak with the Priest more about this, but haven’t scheduled anything yet…
Any good advice out there as to ways I can explain this to my boyfriend? Has anyone else gone through this?
T
tradcathusa
Guest
I am proud of you, You are heroic to go to confession and confess your sin. The traditional priest (FSSP) is seated in the confessional because he sits as a judge. He did the right thing and cannot absolve you until you have contrition to stop the sin. You did the right thing by going to confession, now you have to make the hard decision to move out. Pray , you will get the graces to have the strength to do this. God is working in you., He is trying to save your soul,AND he is working on saving your boyfirends soul. At my FSSP parish they preach dating shouldn’t go much longer than 6 months without an engagement because long dating leads to sin. The other day at our FSSP parish I heard this sermon and I would like you to think about it right now, It went like this
Consider a hole in the ground. Your body is in the bottom of the hole. As the first shovel full of dirt hits your face, your soul is brought before Christ for the particular judgment. Christ is seated as your judge. Satan is there as the prosecuting attorney. Your trial starts. Satan calls your conscience as his first witness. Your conscience screams at you revealing all your horrible disgusting sins. Next the walls of every room wherein you have ever committed a mortal sin in then testify against you. Finally Satan gives his closing argument. He holds out his hands and says, " see these hands, they have no nail marks in them". Next he presents his side, and says,“see my side ,it bears no gash, I have done nothing for this man, YET HE FOLLOWS ME”. Now for the first time with tears in His eyes, Christ speaks, and asks you,“what more could I have done for you, that I did not do?” What is your reply?
Think about the day in the future when that first shovel full of dirt hits your face.
Consider a hole in the ground. Your body is in the bottom of the hole. As the first shovel full of dirt hits your face, your soul is brought before Christ for the particular judgment. Christ is seated as your judge. Satan is there as the prosecuting attorney. Your trial starts. Satan calls your conscience as his first witness. Your conscience screams at you revealing all your horrible disgusting sins. Next the walls of every room wherein you have ever committed a mortal sin in then testify against you. Finally Satan gives his closing argument. He holds out his hands and says, " see these hands, they have no nail marks in them". Next he presents his side, and says,“see my side ,it bears no gash, I have done nothing for this man, YET HE FOLLOWS ME”. Now for the first time with tears in His eyes, Christ speaks, and asks you,“what more could I have done for you, that I did not do?” What is your reply?
Think about the day in the future when that first shovel full of dirt hits your face.
U
Usbek_de_Perse
Guest
Uh, ahem, is marriage not under consideration?
Okay…
A little background: My boyfriend and I have been together well over 5 years now, we’re both in our mid to late 20’s. We have been living together nearly the whole time of our relationship. He was Catholic when I met him, and I just entered the church this Easter. He really started practicing Catholicism more seriously when I was going through RCIA at an ordinary form parish that was nearby (and where I received my Baptism, etc…). During my time in RCIA we had been trying not to sleep in the same bed together and not fornicate - which is hard to do while cohabiting…A few months ago I found out that there was an FSSP parish not too far away - so we went to try it out; I absolutely loved it - and he hated it!
Fast forward: This Saturday I really wanted to go to daily mass at the FSSP parish and he went also - we decided to go to confession together; and I was first. Well…I confessed to fornication and soon the priest got out of me that we were living together and that he would not absolve me until we move apart (which up until this point I did not realize it was so horrible and mortal to be in occasion of sin). Let’s just say my confession made him nearly late to say mass and unable to hear others.
My boyfriend is so angry about me trying to move out. He says that I’m only doing it because the Priest told me to and that I should seek out a Priest that will absolve me - but I feel that is the wrong thing to do. It feels like he wants me to be Catholic…but not THAT Catholic…haha…He also tells me that he will never step foot in that parish again saying “IT’S NOT 1962 ANYMORE”
I just don’t know what to say to explain to him why I am doing this. I tell him that it is for us and that it could only improve our relationship - he says otherwise and won’t even listen to me on the subject.
I am at a loss for words - I called to make an appointment to speak with the Priest more about this, but haven’t scheduled anything yet…
Any good advice out there as to ways I can explain this to my boyfriend? Has anyone else gone through this?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Jimmy Akin the senior apologist at Catholic Answers:
jimmyakin.com/2005/03/cohabitation_ea.html
Also search for the various writings from the various dioceses about cohabitation…
jimmyakin.com/2005/03/cohabitation_ea.html
Also search for the various writings from the various dioceses about cohabitation…
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