fulfilled prophets

[Daniel_Marsh]

Have you ever read the OT prophets and wondered when and where a given chapter was or is to be fulfilled? So, have I. Anyone read any good books on fulfillment in the Ot prohets?

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Here is a good one:

Y’shua: The Jewish Way to Say Jesus

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Have you ever read the OT prophets and wondered when and where a given chapter was or is to be fulfilled? So, have I. Anyone read any good books on fulfillment in the Ot prohets?

I might be going on a limb here, but presently, I am conducting a research on the mysteries of the holy rosary, which are basically the Gospels prayed by Catholics. I have found through these mysteries, they fulfill the law and the prophets. Each one has a prophecy from the old testament, that gets fulfilled in the new by Jesus. Although Catholics do not meditate on the prophecies pertaining to each mystery, but I believe in time this revelation will get out more.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

How about non-mesaianic prophecy?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Nehemiah received the command to restore Jerusalem in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes, said to be around 445 BC.

69 weeks of years are 483 years from 445 BC is around 30s AD for Messiah.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Nehemiah received the command to restore Jerusalem in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes, said to be around 445 BC.

69 weeks of years are 483 years from 445 BC is around 30s AD for Messiah.

This one is dealt with in the book I cited. It is in the chapter entitled “A Clockwork Angel”. He has corrected for all calendar variations (i.e., puts in leap years and such) and it comes out to the very day Jesus was crucified.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Hello,

This one is dealt with in the book I cited. It is in the chapter entitled “A Clockwork Angel”. He has corrected for all calendar variations (i.e., puts in leap years and such) and it comes out to the very day Jesus was crucified.

It’s pretty much on target, I don’t understand why Jews can accept the book of Daniel in their Bible but not see that prophecy leads directly to Jesus.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

It’s pretty much on target, I don’t understand why Jews can accept the book of Daniel in their Bible but not see that prophecy leads directly to Jesus.

That’s a big question - and one you can change the name to anything. How can Jews accept the Book of Isaiah/Daniel/Micah/Joel - etc., etc., etc. but not see that prophecy leads directly to Jesus?

It’s a little off topic for this thread, though.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

exactly, what date was he put on the cross?

his exact date of birth?

and, how old was he?

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

exactly, what date was he put on the cross?

his exact date of birth?

and, how old was he?

He was crucified at ~12:00 p.m. on April 3, 33 A.D. and died at ~3:00 p.m.

His exact date of birth - we don’t know. Sometime between 4 B.C. and 1 A.D.

Since we don’t know when exactly He was born, we can’t know how old He was at the time of His Passion.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Your claims do not line up with History, see below,

John 8:56-57 (King James Version)

56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6

1. Being thirty years old when He came to be baptized, and then possessing the full age of a Master, He came to Jerusalem, so that He might be properly acknowledged by all as a Master. For He did not seem one thing while He was another, as those affirm who describe Him as being man only in appearance; but what He was, that He also appeared to be. Being a Master, therefore, He also possessed the age of a Master, not despising or evading any condition of humanity, nor setting aside in Himself that law which He had appointed for the human race, but sanctifying every age, by that period corresponding to it which belonged to Himself. For He came to save all through means of Himself—all, I say, who through Him are born again to God—infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be “the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence,” Colossians 1:18 the Prince of life, Acts 3:15 existing before all, and going before all.

1. They, however, that they may establish their false opinion regarding that which is written, “to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,” maintain that He preached for one year only, and then suffered in the twelfth month. [In speaking thus,] they are forgetful to their own disadvantage, destroying His whole work, and robbing Him of that age which is both more necessary and more honourable than any other; that more advanced age, I mean, during which also as a teacher He excelled all others. For how could He have had disciples, if He did not teach? And how could He have taught, unless He had reached the age of a Master?** For when He came to be baptized, He had not yet completed His thirtieth year, but was beginning to be about thirty years of age** (for thus Luke, who has mentioned His years, has expressed it: “Now Jesus was, as it were, beginning to be thirty years old,” Luke 3:23 when He came to receive baptism); and, [according to these men,] He preached only one year reckoning from His baptism. On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan. Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemæus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?

1. But, besides this, those very Jews who then disputed with the Lord Jesus Christ have most clearly indicated the same thing. For when the Lord said to them, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day; and he saw it, and was glad,” they answered Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" John 8:56-57 Now, such language is fittingly applied to one who has already passed the age of forty, without having as yet reached his fiftieth year, yet is not far from this latter period. But to one who is only thirty years old it would unquestionably be said, “You are not yet forty years old.” For those who wished to convict Him of falsehood would certainly not extend the number of His years far beyond the age which they saw He had attained; but they mentioned a period near His real age, whether they had truly ascertained this out of the entry in the public register, or simply made a conjecture from what they observed that He was above forty years old, and that He certainly was not one of only thirty years of age. For it is altogether unreasonable to suppose that they were mistaken by twenty years, when they wished to prove Him younger than the times of Abraham. For what they saw, that they also expressed; and He whom they beheld was not a mere phantasm, but an actual being of flesh and blood. He did not then want much of being fifty years old; and, in accordance with that fact, they said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” He did not therefore preach only for one year, nor did He suffer in the twelfth month of the year. For the period included between the thirtieth and the fiftieth year can never be regarded as one year, unless indeed, among their Æons, there be so long years assigned to those who sit in their ranks with Bythus in the Pleroma; of which beings Homer the poet, too, has spoken, doubtless being inspired by the Mother of their [system of] error:—

Οἱ δὲ θεοὶ πὰρ Ζηνὶ καθήμενοι ἠγορόωντο Χρυσέῳ ἐν δαπέδῳ:
which we may thus render into English:—

“The gods sat round, while Jove presided o’er, And converse held upon the golden floor.”

newadvent.org/fathers/0103222.htm



Back to topic, this thread is about prophecy in general, not about messianic prophecy, nor second coming.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

4 BC to 33 AD would make him around 37- 38 years old, depending on if you count the zero year. But, the historical source I quoted above puts Jesus around 49-50 years old at his death.

If he were born in 6 BC, that would put his death around 44-45 AD.

How do you relate your claim to the historical evidence?

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

4 BC to 33 AD would make him around 37- 38 years old, depending on if you count the zero year. But, the historical source I quoted above puts Jesus around 49-50 years old at his death.

If he were born in 6 BC, that would put his death around 44-45 AD.

How do you relate your claim to the historical evidence?

I don’t have the time to go fully through your quote, but let’s quickly put two and two together.

This quote starts off with the statement that Jesus was baptized at the age of 30. You made it bold, so I assume you agree with that.

We know from the Scriptures that Jesus preached for 3 years from the time of His Baptism in the Jordan to the time of His Crucifixion.

Putting these together, Jesus was 33 years old when He was crucified.

So, either Irenaeus hasn’t read Scriptures nor taught the Tradition sufficiently (highly unlikely) or the quote says something that is not overtly obvious to understand (most likely).

 

[japhy]

We know from the Scriptures that Jesus preached for 3 years from the time of His Baptism in the Jordan to the time of His Crucifixion.

Do we know that for a fact? I mean, we know who were the governor and the high priest at the time of his death (Pilate and Caiaphas), but do we know it was about three years from baptism to crucifixion?

I’m not saying I agree with Irenaeus, it’s just that I don’t recall such specifics in Scripture. And it is something to consider than John 8:54-55 mentions the age of fifty rather than forty… although, on the other hand, a fifty-year-old wouldn’t have been old enough to see Abraham either!

 

[JMJ_coder]

Do we know that for a fact? I mean, we know who were the governor and the high priest at the time of his death (Pilate and Caiaphas), but do we know it was about three years from baptism to crucifixion?

I’m not saying I agree with Irenaeus, it’s just that I don’t recall such specifics in Scripture. And it is something to consider than John 8:54-55 mentions the age of fifty rather than forty… although, on the other hand, a fifty-year-old wouldn’t have been old enough to see Abraham either!

Resurrecting old threads are we…

In the Gospel of John, three years worth of Jewish festivals (i.e., three Passovers, etc.) take place between His baptism in the Jordan until His Passion.

 

[japhy]

Resurrecting old threads are we…

I think this was the most recent thread on this topic.

In the Gospel of John, three years worth of Jewish festivals (i.e., three Passovers, etc.) take place between His baptism in the Jordan until His Passion.

So we know it was at least three years.

 

[JMJ_coder]

So we know it was at least three years.

I think that if it had been more, then Saint John would have written it as it was of great importance in his Gospel. The Catechism states that “His public ministry itself was patterned by his pilgrimages to Jerusalem for the great Jewish feasts.” (583)

We know that Jesus was about thirty years old when He began His public ministry (Luke 3:23).

Also, it does seem to be the mind of the Church throughout the ages that He spent ~3 years in His public ministry (though it is not, as far as I know, a doctrinal teaching). Patristic (and other) sources range from one year (which doesn’t seem to play well with Saint John’s Gospel - but those who propose it usually omit “the Pasch” from their translations to accomodate) to fifteen years.

You may want to read this Catholic Encyclopedia entry:
Chronology of the Life of Jesus Christ