fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14

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Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin (originally young woman ) shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

I believe the fulfillment of (Isa 7:14) is found in (Isa 8:3-4).

Then the leaders of the people of God taught that these events had another future fulfillment. In other words, someday “another” son would come who would signal the availability of a more universal savation for the Israel of God.

As a Catholic my tradition tells me it is fulfilled in (Matthew 1:23), but what I am more interested in is evidence that the Jewish people hoped for the future fulfillment? Please talk about this first and we can talk about Jesus next. Thank you.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Also, I understand that the virginity aspect was applied to the young woman after the intial fulfillment. (in the Greek Seuagint) I imagine this will work it’s way into the conversation, but please don’t let this be the main focus of the conversation.

What I’m interested in first is finding out when the Jewish people started to apply a future fulfillment to (Isa 7:14) Thank you.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
In traditional Judaism, there was never the concept of a Jewish married woman remaining a virgin after marriage.

Such a marriage would be regarded as no marriage, and would be annulled.

Judaism celebrates the married state, married sexuality, and the bearing of children naturally.

A Jewish male who remains unmarried past the prime of his life is regarded as only half a man, because he has not married his “other half” (Judaism teaches that Adam was an androgynous being, and when God put Adam to sleep to take the rib from him to make a woman, he was now only “half a man”.)

This is why a Jewish male MUST marry if he is to be complete.
 
HashemEchad said:
A Jewish male who remains unmarried past the prime of his life is regarded as only half a man, because he has not married his “other half” (Judaism teaches that Adam was an androgynous being, and when God put Adam to sleep to take the rib from him to make a woman, he was now only “half a man”.)

This is why a Jewish male MUST marry if he is to be complete.
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I did not know this, thank you for sharing it. Can you possibly point me toward more information regarding this particular teaching (a website or some writings)? It would be much appriciated! Thanks you.
 
HashemEchad said:
In traditional Judaism, there was never the concept of a Jewish married woman remaining a virgin after marriage.
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Thanks for the info, but I’m not trying to apply this verse to Mary at this point. I’m trying to get a basic understanding of the Jewish belief before Christianity existed.

Do you know if Jewish tradition sees (Isa 8:3-4) as the fulfillment of (Isa 7:14)?

If so, do you know if there is Jewish tradition that looked forward to a future fulfillment?

If so, do you know if virginity was applied to the young woman by Jewish leaders? (Hebrew text or Greek Diaspora)

Thank you and Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin (originally young woman ) shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

I believe the fulfillment of (Isa 7:14) is found in (Isa 8:3-4).

Then the leaders of the people of God taught that these events had another future fulfillment. In other words, someday “another” son would come who would signal the availability of a more universal savation for the Israel of God.

As a Catholic my tradition tells me it is fulfilled in (Matthew 1:23), but what I am more interested in is evidence that the Jewish people hoped for the future fulfillment? Please talk about this first and we can talk about Jesus next. Thank you.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
Click to expand...
I have many jewish friends and it has been my experience that they avoid Isaiah like the plague.😉 If they were to truly study this scripture and then read the NT well you know:D

I do hope a jewish person would come and enlighten on us this belief though.
 
jkarp said:
I did not know this, thank you for sharing it. Can you possibly point me toward more information regarding this particular teaching (a website or some writings)? It would be much appriciated! Thanks you.
Click to expand...
Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis has written extensively on Judaism and marriage, from a traditional viewpoint.

Her book, “The Committed Life”, is about Judaism and marriage and might be a good starter, esp. since many nonJews like her books in addition to Jews.
 
Hi Ryan, some will argue for a double fulfillment. But, something overlooked in the Greek is the word used for fulfilled. That word simply means “to complete”, The whole point of Matthew applying that “prophecy” was to show that the Timing of the coming of the Messiah is complete. Through time, apologetists changed the emphasize onto the virginity of Mary and in doing so, got away from the meaning it would have had for the original Jewish readers of the text. To my knowledge no Jewish Scholars has ever seen this text as being Messianic in nature. However, when you consider chapters 5-9 or was 6-10 as a unit, then it could have a messianic meaning. I suggest you sit down read the first ten chapters of Isaiah, then outline those chapters to see if you can discern the messianic meanings.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
I have many jewish friends and it has been my experience that they avoid Isaiah like the plague.😉 If they were to truly study this scripture and then read the NT well you know:D

I do hope a jewish person would come and enlighten on us this belief though.
Click to expand...
I’m Jewish and do not at all avoid anything in the Jewish Bible. Why would I? I’m very well-versed in the prophecies of Isaiah, as a countermissionary I have to be!

But I understand the verses properly, from the correct Jewish understanding of them.

Many Jews are Jewishly ignorant of their faith and are not religious, so they will tend to avoid ANY religious discussions, not only Yeshayahu (Isaiah).
 
HashemEchad said:
I’m Jewish and do not at all avoid anything in the Jewish Bible. Why would I? I’m very well-versed in the prophecies of Isaiah, as a countermissionary I have to be!

But I understand the verses properly, from the correct Jewish understanding of them.

Many Jews are Jewishly ignorant of their faith and are not religious, so they will tend to avoid ANY religious discussions, not only Yeshayahu (Isaiah).
Click to expand...
So how do you see this scripture? Or did you answer already?
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Hi Ryan, some will argue for a double fulfillment. But, something overlooked in the Greek is the word used for fulfilled. That word simply means “to complete”, The whole point of Matthew applying that “prophecy” was to show that the Timing of the coming of the Messiah is complete. Through time, apologetists changed the emphasize onto the virginity of Mary and in doing so, got away from the meaning it would have had for the original Jewish readers of the text. To my knowledge no Jewish Scholars has ever seen this text as being Messianic in nature. However, when you consider chapters 5-9 or was 6-10 as a unit, then it could have a messianic meaning. I suggest you sit down read the first ten chapters of Isaiah, then outline those chapters to see if you can discern the messianic meanings.
Click to expand...
I agree with your assesment of Matthew’s use of Isaiah. And I understand the virgin birth debate. (which is not my main concern here) As a matter of faith I believe in the double fulfillment. Not only in the birth of the child but also the70 years that followed.

I guess I was hoping to verify that Jewish tradition believed in a double fulfillment. I guess I’ll wait and see if someone responds.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
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