Full body scans and pat downs at the airport

[vz71]

Privacy is nice to have, but it doesn’t compare to human LIFE itself.

I, for one, would much rather have someone glancing over a shadowy photo of my breathing body, than the hands of forensic investigators on my mangled form.

(It’s not just people travelling on the planes who are at risk, after all, many folks died on the surface during 9/11 and the Lockerbie, Scotland, attack).

Get real everybody. If you die or are killed, the next you will know is standing before the Throne of Judgment (possibly naked, as well). There is no privacy there.

God bless and ICXC NIKA!

I agree. Get in the scanner, get searched, or get lost.

Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[GEddie]

Dear VZ71:

With all due respect, quoting a Founding Father does not itself make an argument.

There is no “essential liberty” involved in air travel, which did not exist during the Founding Fathers period, anyhow. There is no right to fly.

Folks who are so worried about someone getting a cheap thrill from their shadowy photograph can avoid it altogether by keeping their feet on the ground.

God Bless, VZ71, and ICXC NIKA.

 

[mellowcalico]

I say this item this morning. It seems you can buy privacy coverups for your underwear: apnews.myway.com/article/20101122/D9JKU8185.html

DENVER (AP) - It’s a special kind of underwear - with a strategically placed fig leaf design - and a Colorado man says it’ll get you through the airport screeners with your dignity intact.

Jeff Buske says his invention uses a powdered metal that protects people’s privacy when undergoing medical or security screenings.

Buske of Las Vegas, Nev.-Rocky Flats Gear says the underwear’s inserts are thin and conform to the body’s contours, making it difficult to hide anything beneath them. The mix of tungsten and other metals do not set off metal detectors.

The men’s design has the fig leaf, while the one for women comes in the shape of clasped hands.

It’s unclear whether it would lead to an automatic, more intrusive pat down by federal Transportation Security Administration officials.

 

[pnewton]

Folks who are so worried about someone getting a cheap thrill from their shadowy photograph can avoid it altogether by keeping their feet on the ground…

Or by campaigning to have this devices removed.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I still like the idea of flying naked. We could load the gay men first into the back of the plane, followed by the gay women, followed by straight men, then in front straight women.

Seriously, if the airlines required a special uniform for flying — cottom jump suit, no undies, sandals on feet. The jump suit could be tight enough to see that nothing is hidden in them, but not too tight to be immodest. One’s regular clothes could be placed in a plastic bag for TSA to examine like they do for anyother carry on. This way a person could be correctly dressed at home.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree. Get in the scanner, get searched, or get lost.

Well, what a fascist sentiment. Do you understand that we have constitutional rights in this country and terrorists did not take those away from you? We are not to be searched in our private effects nor any of our property seized without a process. How can the TSA take someone’s cell phone away from them? They are not authorized to do that. A search needs a warrant. We are buying a service from a private company and that company has the right to set conditions but not to violate our sacred CONSTITUTIONAL rights. The government should not even be involved in this process - the airlines have the risk and the investment in the public’s need for safety, as well as the survival of the industry. Get the TSA out and let the airlines decide how to handle it.

Our problem is that the government has REACTED to these stupid terrorist attacks instead of RESPONDING thoughtfully and systematically to protect CITIZENS in our way of life. The TSA should never have been formed in the first place. We could actually PROFILE the people most likely to strap bombs to themselves, which would eliminate about 95% of the risk from the start. You can train dogs to sniff out any substance including stuff that doesn’t set off the metal detectors. All they do is walk by and sit down if they smell something and then that person and his or her luggage is pulled out and examined.

Sure the Israelis have 2 airports, but even if they have 200, or 2000, they would still approach the problem in a way that targets the perpetrators, not the citizens of Israel.

Our rights as citizens are being taken away before our eyes and we are supposed to sit down and shut up?? Not on your freaking life. These TSA gestapos have frisked 3 year olds, drenched a handicapped man in his own urine from an ostomy bag, told a grandmother to take her underwear off. THIS IS INSANE!!! It is NOT for your own good, don’t you understand??? WE are not the problem, it is the terrorists that are the problem. My hair gel is not the problem. Pull all the Middle Eastern men out and talk to them. It is the TICKET and the origination, the method of payment, etc. that causes the flagging process to start, after that is human lie detecting.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The thing is however, these planes do not belong to the government. They are regulated by the government, but the companies who own the planes are private.

I would not have my planes or my employees fly passengers and luggage that was not properly searched.

When the next would-be bomber puts the bomb-making materials inside his body, are you OK with being cavity-searched, because every time some idiot tries something, WE lose our liberties? How far will this go before citizens say NO MORE??

First it was the shoe-bomber, we had to have our shoes scanned and we can’t take our tube of toothpaste or a half-full container of hair gel onto the plane. Next some idiot tries to light his undies on fire and now we have naked scanning. I’m telling you that next it’s going to be cavity searches.

I’m sick and tired of this - more and more I dream in Russian…

 

[vz71]

Dear VZ71:

With all due respect, quoting a Founding Father does not itself make an argument.

No, but it does make a good point.
There are those that are willing to sacrifice liberty for security and there are those that are not.

Americans should not be willing to sacrifice liberty for security.

 

[Barbkw]

Constitutional rights?

Take a bus if you don’t wish to comply with the search techniques. No one is forcing you to fly. You don’t own the plane.

If any constitutional rights apply, the passengers onboard, collectively, have a right to get to their destinations without being bombed out of the air.

If the plane blows up midair from a terrorist attack, the company will be sued for inadequate and incompetent search procedures.

 

[mellowcalico]

We are fighting yesterday’s attacks with these measures… we need to predict tomorrows. I keep mentioning it because I hope someone will listen (this isn’t my idea either, I originally heard it from someone else and it’s on the internet. So it’s not unknown to terrorists).

With all the security procedures at airports, nice long lines of people (several planefuls of people) start to back up at security. All the next terrorist need to is set off a bomb at security (before being scanned, frisked, x-rayed or whatever) to kill a lot of people. On top of the causalities, I bet airports around the country would be shut down. By overdoing security, we are actually introducing a new risk.

It’s like over medicating oneself – in the long run, it might cause more harm than good.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Constitutional rights?

Take a bus if you don’t wish to comply with the search techniques. No one is forcing you to fly. You don’t own the plane.

If any constitutional rights apply, the passengers onboard, collectively, have a right to get to their destinations without being bombed out of the air.

If the plane blows up midair from a terrorist attack, the company will be sued for inadequate and incompetent search procedures.

The airlines own the plane, and they are selling us a service. No we are not being forced to fly, but we ARE being forced to comply with stupid after-the-event security rules that are like shutting the barn door after the horse is long gone. We do not give up our constitutional rights if we go into a mall or anywhere else, we do not forfeit our rights anywhere we go.

If the airlines were responsible for the safety of their passengers, I have a feeling that they would find a more efficient way to screen for bombers. They’d have to, or they’d go out of business - instead the taxpayers have to pay for our own molestation by government employees.

This is ridiculous and ineffective, and you did not answer my question - if the next attempted bomber puts stuff up his rectum, are you OK with your 3-year-old getting cavity-searched?

 

[Barbkw]

A bomber, built an explosive device in his underware. Except for a small glitch, the bomb didn’t do off. He was 100% successful in getting the bomb on the flight and in hitting his destination.

Yes, we are always one step behind what a terrorist can think up. Hence the need to protect planes, cargo, employees and passengers from another attack.

It isn’t “politically correct” in the U.S. to “profile” the only people who should be given the search procedures.

 

[Listener]

I will probably just go through the body scan next time, but I’m totally sick of this, too. I’m getting to the point where I don’t fly anywhere unless it is absolutely necessary. Instead of a day of people refusing to go through the scanner, maybe someone should organize a “no fly” week in honor of the freedoms our soldiers fought so hard to maintain.

In our country, the motto seems to be “He Who Has the Gold Makes the Rules.” What if we decided to withhold the Gold for a short period of time?

I should also add that I have been through quite a few foreign airports. Our USA airports have the prize for the most demeaning searches.

 

[royal_archer]

Well who knows. I am not saying that this will prevent terrorism or crime, but If it does, are the lives and health of the terrorism victims worth the privacy of others being invaded. That is the real question here.

If you are willing to suffer this indignity in the hopes it may prevent a tragedy, what other indignities are you willing to tollerate? What about random searches of homes of would be travelers in order to see if there is bomb making materials in their home? Years ago we were warned of this slippery slope but the intrusions are getting more and more intense with little evidence of them actually working.

 

[royal_archer]

A dog doesn’t need to touch you or even stop and sniff you. I’ve seen drug and explosives dogs in action, they literally seem smell it across the room. They don’t need to touch you or have you stand there with your arms up in the air. When I’ve been subject to search by dog at an airport (not sure what the dog was sniffing out) our whole planeful of people literally just stood in a line with our carry ons and the dog trotted by… sometimes stopping to sniff more, but not always. Then they told us we were clear to go.

It just seems cheaper, faster, less intrusive, and better (as in everyone is searched… not just a few).

There are also electronic sensors that can be installed in concourses that will sniff out drugs and explosives.

 

[vz71]

It appears that the TSA is now proposing these full body scans for public transportation.

This is surreal.
As a child, I always thought it a little cheesy and over the top when travelers in WWII Germany and the cold war era Soviet Union would be asked for their papers.
I never dreamed it would be a reality here, but that is exactly where we are headed.

 

[royal_archer]

Constitutional rights?

Take a bus if you don’t wish to comply with the search techniques. No one is forcing you to fly. You don’t own the plane.

If any constitutional rights apply, the passengers onboard, collectively, have a right to get to their destinations without being bombed out of the air.

If the plane blows up midair from a terrorist attack, the company will be sued for inadequate and incompetent search procedures.

I have the right to go to dinner with out being bombed. Should the government come in a search all of the other people entering the parking lot for the restaurant to make sure they don’t have explosives?

 

[TruthSeeker60]

Constitutional rights?

Take a bus if you don’t wish to comply with the search techniques. No one is forcing you to fly.

What about those who need to travel oversees? What about those who need to travel across the country for business and return to work a day later? What about college students like me live in California, go to college in Ohio, but don’t own a car? Am I supposed to hitch-hike 2,600 miles? The fact of the matter is that flying is a necessity for many people.

If any constitutional rights apply, the passengers onboard, collectively, have a right to get to their destinations without being bombed out of the air.

People also have the right to not have some murder them in their home. However, this does not give the government the right or power to strip search everyone who enters another person’s house.

Any time you let someone enter your home, you take a risk. Any time you drive on the road or enter a building, you take a risk. Whatever you do, you take a risk. Risks need to be assessed. The attitude that people have toward terrorism when flying aught to be considered a phobia. Statistically, one is more likely to be struck by lightening than to be a victim of terrorism when flying.

anotherperspective.org/advoc530.html

Have you read the constitution? It limits the government. I suggest at least looking at the fourth and tenth amendments.

 

[centurionguard]

I think government enforcement of “Pat Downs” at airports are Paranoid.
Full body pat downs can get very provocative in nature. What kind of thrill and jolly are some security personnel with twisted minds getting out of this. What the hell is next? Internal examinations in bodily orifices for every passenger before boarding an airplane? Don’t laugh it off or disregard this as ridiculous.

Your civil rights of liberty and privacy are no longer. Democracy is a fading system disguised with Communistic systems and overtures hidden from many who are too arrogantly blind to see or admit. In the near future, perhaps less than a twenty years every citizen will be required to carry a governmental ID with checkpoints in cities like that in the Nazi war years and traveling through Russia.

You think these are outrageously extreme statements? Airport “Pat Downs” are only the beginning. Big Brother is watching. KGB and Nazi passport checkpoints are in.
Go ahead Laugh it off! Less than ten years ago people would have laughed off airport pat downs.

 

[wabrams]

If any constitutional rights apply, the passengers onboard, collectively, have a right to get to their destinations without being bombed out of the air.

Fair enough; just show me where it is in the Constitution.

If the plane blows up midair from a terrorist attack, the company will be sued for inadequate and incompetent search procedures.

You can’t sue an airline for something they have zero responsibility for.