Full Communion Watch

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I’ve noticed recently that several of the traditional Catholic websites have been using the phrase in the title of this thread to compare some of the words and actions of some Catholics who are still in ‘full communion’ with the Catholic Church with the current ‘irregular’ status of the SSPX.

Here are some examples I’ve seen used like this:

socon.ca/or_bust/?p=8698

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-about-this-bishop.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_McBrien

americanpapist.com/2008/06/obama-cardinal-george-and-pfleger.html

Fr. Pfleger was recently suspended by Cardinal George for not accepting a reassignment to run a parochial school but not for any of his previous antics (can you imagine sending your children to a Catholic school he was directing ? !). This is just a sample of what I’ve seen over the last year or two about those Catholics who are ‘in full communion’ while the SSPX’s status remains ‘irregular’.

I have to admit it makes me wonder at times. And no, I don’t assist at a SSPX church.
 
The Canadian priest emphasizes one side of the mystery Holy Eucharist (celebration and to be shared meal). This in itself is not necessarily heretic. Some other people emphasize only the Sacrificial nature of the Eucharist, thsi is eccess too

The Swiss bishop has the best chance to follow the way as his Australian college went down recently. The Church, like God Himself, is slow.

Richard Mc Brian was reprimanded, he apparently did not repented

Pfleger is suspended and so in the same legal status as the SSPX.

Their disobedience does not justify other’s disobedience.
 
Didn’t the SSPX reject the authority of the Pope? Isn’t that schism?
 
The SSPX accepts the authority of the Pope, they just won’t submit to it, i.e. they believe that all the councils up to Vatican II were ecumenical and that all the Popes up to Benedict XVI are really Popes yet the SSPX continues to do what they want instead of following obedience.
 
Didn’t the SSPX reject the authority of the Pope? Isn’t that schism?
If they are in schism, Pope BXVI must have missed that part when he lifted the excommunications.

Someone better tell H.H. before they infiltrate the Church. 😛
 
H.H. BXVI on the SSPX

"… I think for example of the 491 priests. We cannot know how mixed their motives may be. All the same, I do not think that they would have chosen the priesthood if, alongside various distorted and unhealthy elements, they did not have a love for Christ and a desire to proclaim him and, with him, the living God. Can we simply exclude them, as representatives of a radical fringe, from our pursuit of reconciliation and unity? What would then become of them?

Certainly, for some time now, and once again on this specific occasion, we have heard from some representatives of that community many unpleasant things – arrogance and presumptuousness, an obsession with one-sided positions, etc. Yet to tell the truth, I must add that I have also received a number of touching testimonials of gratitude which clearly showed an openness of heart. But should not the great Church also allow herself to be generous in the knowledge of her great breadth, in the knowledge of the promise made to her? Should not we, as good educators, also be capable of overlooking various faults and making every effort to open up broader vistas? And should we not admit that some unpleasant things have also emerged in Church circles? At times one gets the impression that our society needs to have at least one group to which no tolerance may be shown; which one can easily attack and hate. And should someone dare to approach them – in this case the Pope – he too loses any right to tolerance; he too can be treated hatefully, without misgiving or restraint."
blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/12/official-text-of-popes-letter-to-bishops-on-williamson-affair/

I think we should get off their backs.

jmo :cool:
 
Fr. Gravel supports abortion and homosexual ‘marriage’ and still exercises his full faculties as a Catholic priest.

Your response in regards to the Swiss Catholic bishop is incomprehensible so I can’t respond to you.

I researched your contention that Fr. McBrien has been reprimanded and have not been able to confirm it. Please forward a link. As far as I know, Fr. McBrien has never been reprimanded, suspended etc. as a priest. He is still on the faculty of Notre Dame’s Theology Department.

Fr. Pfleger was suspended because he refused to be reassigned, not for any of his antics as a pastor.

The ‘Full Communion Watch’ point is why the double standard?
 
I like these lines from the letter but doubt they will be heeded:
…But some of those who put themselves forward as great defenders of the Council also need to be reminded that Vatican II embraces the entire doctrinal history of the Church. Anyone who wishes to be obedient to the Council has to accept the faith professed over the centuries, and cannot sever the roots from which the tree draws its life…
 
The ‘Full Communion Watch’ point is why the double standard?
The common between the SSPX and the quoted persons is, that all believe that they are the depository of the truth, and act in the name of their truth against the Church.
 
I’ve noticed recently that several of the traditional Catholic websites have been using the phrase in the title of this thread to compare some of the words and actions of some Catholics who are still in ‘full communion’ with the Catholic Church with the current ‘irregular’ status of the SSPX.

Here are some examples I’ve seen used like this:

socon.ca/or_bust/?p=8698

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-about-this-bishop.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_McBrien

americanpapist.com/2008/06/obama-cardinal-george-and-pfleger.html

Fr. Pfleger was recently suspended by Cardinal George for not accepting a reassignment to run a parochial school but not for any of his previous antics (can you imagine sending your children to a Catholic school he was directing ? !). This is just a sample of what I’ve seen over the last year or two about those Catholics who are ‘in full communion’ while the SSPX’s status remains ‘irregular’.

I have to admit it makes me wonder at times. And no, I don’t assist at a SSPX church.
I feel that we need to stop dragging the SSPX into every event that happens in the Catholic Church. First of all, it’s not fair to them. Some people drag them in as martyrs, which the Society is not, as Pope Benedict made very clear in his statement cited by At Trent. However,the Society should not be a scapegoat either . . . also clearly said by the Holy Father.

It would be more appropriate for the lay Catholic to try to understand Church law and how it works.

You mention Fr. Pfleger. Father is a diocesan priest. As such, he is free to express any opinion he wants to express. He is a secular man, just as you are. He is not a consecrated religious. We, religious, are not free to express opinions and make statements that are in conflict with the feelings and thoughts of our superiors. Diocesan priests have no such superiors. They govern themselves.

A bishop governs his diocese. A diocesan priest promises to obey his bishop. When he disobeys, the bishop has the authority to suspend him. He cannot suspend him for nonsense behavior. That is not allowed by Canon Law. If Father belonged to a religious community, the case would be different. The superior has absolute power over those whom he governs. The bishop only has power over the laity. He can silence the laity. To silence a priest is a little more complex. The bishop would have to prove that the priest is teaching heresy. This requires a hearing. Heresy is no small charge.

The only similarity between this case and the Society is the disobedience to authority. Canon Law does not allow it. Once you are suspended, you are in an irregular status. You may receive the sacraments, but you may not administer them.

Some have mentioned theologians who teach at universities. Catholic universities are not under the jurisdiction of the bishops. A bishop can take away the university’s right to call itself Catholic. He cannot suspend, fire, dismiss or take any disciplinary action against a priest or religious who teaches at the university.

That being said, there are two exceptions to this rule. First, a university that is owned by a diocese does fall under the jurisdiction of the local bishop. Second, a pontifical university is usually placed under the watch of the local bishop, even though it falls under the jurisdiction of the Vatican. This was the case of Father Charles Curran at Catholic University of America. CUA is a pontifical university and the local bishop was the chancellor. He has the duty to oversee the university’s fidelity to orthodoxy. In that particular case, Father Curran still remains a priest in good standing with the Catholic Church. His license to teach theology was taken away. He was not suspended, because there were no grounds to suspend him. He had not violated Canon Law and he was not a religious whose superior can suspend for other reasons.

It is important for us to understand that suspensions can only be used by certain people in very specific situations. We can’t just go around suspending every priest who dissents. Church law does not allow this without a fair trial.

In the case of direct disobedience, insubordination, does not require a trial. The Church can proceed to suspension. There is also the case of certain sins such as child abuse, violation of celibacy (not chastity, big difference), and other sins identified either by Canon Law or by religious superiors. These do not require a hearing.

We have to be very gentle with ourselves. We tend to get ourselves to upset, when we don’t understand the rules.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
You mention Fr. Pfleger. Father is a diocesan priest. As such, he is free to express any opinion he wants to express.
Yes and no, Brother. He is free to say what he likes, but with that freedom comes responsibility and consequences. He caused immense scandal by publicizing his threats to leave the Catholic Church if he were transferred. Boom, consequences.
 
Yes and no, Brother. He is free to say what he likes, but with that freedom comes responsibility and consequences. He caused immense scandal by publicizing his threats to leave the Catholic Church if he were transferred. Boom, consequences.
That’s not the part to which I was referring. He has no right to say that he’s going to disobey and to leave if he’s transferred. That is just compounding the insubordination. I was referring to the things that he has allegedly said prior to this situation that people say are heterodox.

People often place too many expectations on bishops, because they don’t know the law. The truth is that religious superiors have much greater authority over their subordinates than bishops do over diocesan priests. Between the religious superior and the religious there is a little thing called a vow of obedience that does not exist between a diocesan priest and his bishop. The promise of obedience made by a diocesan priest does not bind him to the bishop as the vow of obedience binds the religious to his superior.

We have to take it easy on bishops. Their work is not easy. They not only have to deal with the clergy, but they deal with the laity, the state, the Vatican, and many other material and spiritual concerns. Everything they do has a law that governs it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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