Full consent of the will.

[TLM08]

Can a person have “full consent of the will” if he or she is eventually overpowered by a temptation and commits a sinful act?

 

[ForwardProgress]

It is hard to determine the limits. My priest uses the guidelines of the whole of a person’s life in situations like that. That if a person is a good, Church-going person who takes care of their family, is charitable to others, prays a lot, etc and falls to a temptation that is low on the grave list, most likely he/she did not give full consent of the will. I imagine it is different if you killed someone, or robbed a bank, etc…but some ‘grave’ sins are more easily committed by passion or habit that has some underlying root cause and is not the persons full willful decision to have the sin committed.

 

[RosaryFan]

Can a person have “full consent of the will” if he or she is eventually overpowered by a temptation and commits a sinful act?

Absolutely! Look at Eve. She was overpowered by temptation, yet it was still her full consent of the will which caused her to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree.

That’s usually what leads you to sin - giving into temptation. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head, it’s ultimately your own decision to give in.

 

[StCsDavid]

Absolutely! Look at Eve. She was overpowered by temptation, yet it was still her full consent of the will which caused her to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree.

That’s usually what leads you to sin - giving into temptation. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head, it’s ultimately your own decision to give in.

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; - Genesis 3, 6 (RSV)

Did Eve really give full consent? She had been told a lie by the Serpent. It was the first lie she had ever heard; so she had no reason to believe what was told to her was not true. She based her decision upon that lie.

Many will disagree with me, but I say her sin was serious, grave, but I don’t believe that she was able to give full consent of the will. Notice God does not condemn them to Hell. He kicks them out of the Garden of Eden, and the consequences for their offspring, meaning you and me, was a life lived outside of Paradise; however, God still wants us back, and he gives us a Savior to get us home.

Now the Serpent on the other hand gave full consent to his will to lie and lead this innocent one astray. He is condemned to Hell. In fact there is enmity between Satan and Mary, the New Eve. That word enmity loses it’s punch in the English translation from Hebrew. It means in essence as totally opposite or opposed to as one can get.

Getting to OP’s question, I would say the answer is dependent upon the will to sin more than the temptation that leads one into sin. Mortal sin can be very easy to commit if one’s will is oriented towards the grave and serious matter. It’s less easy to fall into if one is weakened by something such as force of habit or addiciton. For example, an alcoholic might have the will to not drink, but be overcome by temptation. A young man or woman might have developed a habit of sexual self-gratification and have the will to live a chaste life, but be overcome by the temptation inherent with the habit.

Talk to a priest about your own concerns if you have any. It’s a good question.

 

[RosaryFan]

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; - Genesis 3, 6 (RSV)

Did Eve really give full consent? She had been told a lie by the Serpent. It was the first lie she had ever heard; so she had no reason to believe what was told to her was not true. She based her decision upon that lie.

Many will disagree with me, but I say her sin was serious, grave, but I don’t believe that she was able to give full consent of the will. Notice God does not condemn them to Hell. He kicks them out of the Garden of Eden, and the consequences for their offspring, meaning you and me, was a life lived outside of Paradise; however, God still wants us back, and he gives us a Savior to get us home.

Now the Serpent on the other hand gave full consent to his will to lie and lead this innocent one astray. He is condemned to Hell. In fact there is enmity between Satan and Mary, the New Eve. That word enmity loses it’s punch in the English translation from Hebrew. It means in essence as totally opposite or opposed to as one can get.

Getting to OP’s question, I would say the answer is dependent upon the will to sin more than the temptation that leads one into sin. Mortal sin can be very easy to commit if one’s will is oriented towards the grave and serious matter. It’s less easy to fall into if one is weakened by something such as force of habit or addiciton. For example, an alcoholic might have the will to not drink, but be overcome by temptation. A young man or woman might have developed a habit of sexual self-gratification and have the will to live a chaste life, but be overcome by the temptation inherent with the habit.

Talk to a priest about your own concerns if you have any. It’s a good question.

I do agree with you in that it was the first lie ever told, however, it was in direct contradiction to what God told her. Therefore, she had to make a determination as to which was truth and which was lie. She chose wrong, not trusting in God’s word and suffered, horribly, the consequences of her actions. True, she was not immediately damned to hell because she didn’t die, but we really don’t know where Adam and Eve ultimately ended up when death finally did come (ah, yet another consequence of their actions)

 

[StCsDavid]

I do agree with you in that it was the first lie ever told, however, it was in direct contradiction to what God told her. Therefore, she had to make a determination as to which was truth and which was lie. She chose wrong, not trusting in God’s word and suffered, horribly, the consequences of her actions. True, she was not immediately damned to hell because she didn’t die, but we really don’t know where Adam and Eve ultimately ended up when death finally did come (ah, yet another consequence of their actions)

I see your point and agree she did have to make that determination. I suppose I wonder about her capacity to disseminate between truth and lie. I’m not excusing the sin, mind you. It’s kind of in the same vein as God warning them not to touch the tree or they would die, but did they really know what dying was? They had never seen or experienced death.

My hope is to sit down with both of them one day and ask them these things. And my bigger hope is that conversation will take place in Heaven.

 

[RosaryFan]

I see your point and agree she did have to make that determination. I suppose I wonder about her capacity to disseminate between truth and lie. I’m not excusing the sin, mind you. It’s kind of in the same vein as God warning them not to touch the tree or they would die, but did they really know what dying was? They had never seen or experienced death.

My hope is to sit down with both of them one day and ask them these things. And my bigger hope is that conversation will take place in Heaven.

Me, too! Maybe I can join you… Merry Christmas.

 

[Lainey63]

I believe that St Thomas Aquinas did speak about different weaknesses…and the degree of sin to which the person is culpable. But that’s as much info I can add to this…someone who has a lot more knowledge about St Thomas Aquinas can expand on this.

 

[Ruthie]

This “first lie” is a puzzler. I wish I was an expert in Hebrew.

The KJV says, “You shall not surely die,” which sounds to me like the Devil is saying, “You won’t *really *die.” (Gen 3:4)

Checking the online Hebrew interlinear, I got two words, la-muth thmthu’n, which translate as “not־to-die you-shall-die.”

Checking other translations, I found “You will not die” (RSV), “You certainly will not die” (NAB), “Dying, ye do not die” (Young’s Literal Translation), and “You positively will not die” (NWT, the JW’s translation), and “You surely will not die!” (NASB). Those are the 5 versions I have on hand.

Caveat: I neither speak nor read Hebrew. So I have no background knowledge to help me interpret this phrase.

“Not to die, you shall die.” When I think about it, that really covers it, doesn’t it? Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden alive. They did not immediately die as a consequence of eating the fruit, and indeed lived for a long time afterward. But they were cut off from the Beatific Vision, which is another kind of death.

So, the Devil didn’t lie! - - - IF I’m right about this - which is open to question. Especially since 4 translations totally disagree with me.

Heart of Jesus, treasure-house of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.

Ruthie

 

[ckempston]

This “first lie” is a puzzler. I wish I was an expert in Hebrew.

The KJV says, “You shall not surely die,” which sounds to me like the Devil is saying, “You won’t *really *die.” (Gen 3:4)

Checking the online Hebrew interlinear, I got two words, la-muth thmthu’n, which translate as “not־to-die you-shall-die.”

Checking other translations, I found “You will not die” (RSV), “You certainly will not die” (NAB), “Dying, ye do not die” (Young’s Literal Translation), and “You positively will not die” (NWT, the JW’s translation), and “You surely will not die!” (NASB). Those are the 5 versions I have on hand.

Caveat: I neither speak nor read Hebrew. So I have no background knowledge to help me interpret this phrase.

“Not to die, you shall die.” When I think about it, that really covers it, doesn’t it? Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden alive. They did not immediately die as a consequence of eating the fruit, and indeed lived for a long time afterward. But they were cut off from the Beatific Vision, which is another kind of death.

So, the Devil didn’t lie! - - - IF I’m right about this - which is open to question. Especially since 4 translations totally disagree with me.

Heart of Jesus, treasure-house of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.

Ruthie

The Devil didn’t technically “lie” when he said God would command his angels concerning Christ, or that Christ should turn stones into bread, but he was using God’s word deceitfully. He corrupted God’s intent with His Word, so “lie” is a pretty good descriptor of what he did.