Full intention to sign prenuptial agreement on finances

[pensmama87]

I wonder how it would turn out if all the time and effort (and money) spent on potential exit plans was spent instead on preparing for and working on the actual marriage.

 

[Xantippe]

I wonder how it would turn out if all the time and effort (and money) spent on potential exit plans was spent instead on preparing for and working on the actual marriage.

Oooooh!

That is an excellent point.

Here’s a reading list for the OP:

Marriage books:

–Boundaries in Marriage
–The Five Love Languages
–The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work
–How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids

Other:

–Don’t Shoot the Dog!

dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=dtb116

I would also suggest rereading them periodically. I find that I get something different out of good books when I reread them at a different stage in my life.

 

[Walking_Home]

And when it comes to Catholic marriage, I suspect that even if no prenup agreement is made, the mere attitude that “divorce just happens sometimes” may make the marriage invalid.

So, do you personally think divorce is just something that happens, like a hurricane, and can never be predicted or prevented? Actually, even a hurricane gives some warning before it hits a particular town. So do tornadoes. Maybe earthquakes are a better analogy.

Anyway, I can certainly think of cases where people marry expecting to eventually divorce; that is the whole concept of “starter marriages”.

Some “shotgun” marriages also fall under this. I recall one CAF poster who converted from a very secular lifestyle, who readily admitted to marrying her first husband only because she was pregnant at the time, and marrying only for the benefit of the baby, but not even committing to sexual fidelity, and fully expecting to divorce when the child was old enough for school and she wouldn’t need a man to help care for the child.

I can also recall some Catholic posters seeing no problem with the idea of shotgun marriages because (1) there is a chance it could work out, and that would be best for the baby and (2) even if it doesn’t, there’s a slam-dunk case for annulment, and both spouses could walk away knowing they can eventually get an annulment and remarry, and at least the baby will have started life out in an intact home for their first few years.

Now I personally think this attitude completely ignores the negative impact of divorce on a child. But even if there was no such issue, I think such a marriage would clearly be invalid.

There’s also a big difference between recognizing the possibility of divorce and recognizing the possibility that your wife is, from the outset, scheming to ruin you financially though a divorce. That’s the kind of frankly misogynistic attitude that I often get from the MGTOW folks. They have a very deep suspicion of women in general, though some will claim that women weren’t always out to get men, but that the “evil man hating feminists” have corrupted the vast majority of women over the last 50-60 years or so into seeing men as the enemy.

Some do state they might be willing to change their stance for a “traditional” woman who (1) believes in wifely submission and would never consider divorce or (2) are powerless to initiate divorce proceedings even if she wanted, because she has no ability to support herself and no education beyond the minimum necessary to care for her husband and kids.

Hence the quasi-fetish some MGTOW have for “mail order brides” from a more traditional society, who they imagine will fulfill their fantasies to have a woman fawning over them and obeying their every word , and not actually require any sacrifice into the relationship themselves. Some also consider they might, when financially stable,** consider marrying a very young woman, as in late teens or early twenties, specifically because they will have power and authority over them**.

---

In my research into the “redpill/manosphere”-- I came across the phrase “old enough to bleed, old enough to breed”/ " if it bleeds, it breeds". Whatever the age a girl starts menstruating – she is ready for sex and childbearing. Frankly I’m thinking there is a current of “closet” pedos running through the manosphere.

There is a lot of “grumbling” toward the age of consent laws.

 

[Bataar]

I wonder how it would turn out if all the time and effort (and money) spent on potential exit plans was spent instead on preparing for and working on the actual marriage.

You can do all the right things, read all the right books but if your spouse wants a divorce, and won’t compromise, it won’t make a difference.

 

[pnewton]

You don’t have to go into the marriage suspicious at all, but it seems to make sense to recognize a very realistic possibility. I’d bet most Catholic marriages that end in divorce started out with neither person believing it would happen to them.

This makes divorce sound like a natural disaster, or some illness. It is 100% choice on the part of two people. If the two choose to stay married for life, then they will not divorce.

 

[pnewton]

There’s also a big difference between recognizing the possibility of divorce and recognizing the possibility that your wife is, from the outset, scheming to ruin you financially though a divorce. That’s the kind of frankly misogynistic attitude that I often get from the MGTOW folks.

I am getting the impression that it is not only misogynism, but also the antithesis of maniliess, entering marriage to get, rather than to give.

 

[pensmama87]

You can do all the right things, read all the right books but if your spouse wants a divorce, and won’t compromise, it won’t make a difference.

I will readily admit that there are situations that are just awful (and people that are just awful.)

That said, I have a hard time accepting this as some kind of general rule. If you expect dysfunction, you’re going to get dysfunction. If you expect that you can choose a good spouse, that you can work through problems, and you and your intended agree that working through problems is the best plan, then chances are good you will succeed, even though you will still go through hard times. I think almost everyone - at one point or another - will think, “Who is this person that I married and what the heck was wrong with me for agreeing to marry him/her?” But what you do after that matters. If you’re primed to think, “Oh boy, this is the beginning of the end,” then…that’s what you’re going to get. If you start out by remembering that there are hard times and marriage requires work, I think your chances at success are greater.

The reality, too, that might be missing in your post (again, with the caveat that some people are just awful) is that a lot of times, in my experience, the person who finally says, “Stop, no more, I’m done, I’m leaving,” has been the person who’s been making an effort for some time with zero response from the other.

Discernment in choosing a spouse is also important.

I don’t want to lay blame at the foot of anyone who faces an unwanted divorce, but the divorced people I know in real life readily admit that, whatever their ex’s faults, they made bad decisions too - either in choosing to marry that person despite obvious problems, in how they approached conflict, or both.

 

[Xantippe]

I will readily admit that there are situations that are just awful (and people that are just awful.)

That said, I have a hard time accepting this as some kind of general rule. If you expect dysfunction, you’re going to get dysfunction. If you expect that you can choose a good spouse, that you can work through problems, and you and your intended agree that working through problems is the best plan, then chances are good you will succeed, even though you will still go through hard times.** I think almost everyone - at one point or another - will think, “Who is this person that I married and what the heck was wrong with me for agreeing to marry him/her?” But what you do after that matters. If you’re primed to think, “Oh boy, this is the beginning of the end,” then…that’s what you’re going to get. If you start out by remembering that there are hard times and marriage requires work, I think your chances at success are greater.**

The reality, too, that might be missing in your post (again, with the caveat that some people are just awful) is that a lot of times, in my experience, the person who finally says, “Stop, no more, I’m done, I’m leaving,” has been the person who’s been making an effort for some time with zero response from the other.

Discernment in choosing a spouse is also important.

I don’t want to lay blame at the foot of anyone who faces an unwanted divorce, but the divorced people I know in real life readily admit that, whatever their ex’s faults, they made bad decisions too - either in choosing to marry that person despite obvious problems, in how they approached conflict, or both.

Right.

The more I hear about other people’s marriages (for example on CAF), the less impressed I am by the “divorce out of the blue” theory. See, for example this couple:

captainawkward.com/2017/05/15/963-my-husbands-extreme-environmental-beliefs-are-a-problem-how-can-i-get-him-to-give-up-this-obsession/

WARNING: BAD LANGUAGE

That lady has been putting up with 15 years of depression, perpetual school, unemployment, underemployment, and weird controlling environmental obsessions from her husband–and it sounds like they are totally secular people and don’t even have any kids.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

In my research into the “redpill/manosphere”-- I came across the phrase “old enough to bleed, old enough to breed”/ " if it bleeds, it breeds". Whatever the age a girl starts menstruating – she is ready for sex and childbearing. Frankly I’m thinking there is a current of “closet” pedos running through the manosphere.

While I’m sure some of that kind of talk is indeed coming from pedophiles, I can think of a lot of other subcultures that encourage very young marriage, at least for females, and I think much of it is not about finding them sexy, but due to the idea that God, or Nature, or whatever, NEVER meant for women to be independent adults. They were just meant to be semi-men who are designed merely to serve men and only valuable in that capacity, but who do not have the same inherent worth or dignity.

Now, few men will admit to actually wanting to subjugate women just because, so they have to justify it by painting themselves as victims who are just defending themselves from those evil feminists who were never meant to have any power, because all women are essentially immature manipulative nymphettes who would naturally run wild gratifying their selfish whims if given a chance, and needing the strong hand of a man to keep them in their place. They also tend to blame “feminists” for all of the social ills.

I actually find the rape apologia engaged by some of this demographic, worse than the ephebophilia, as most of the “old enough to bleed, old enough to breed” types will insist that such young women are fully capable of consenting to sex, and that statutory rape laws are just another way for feminists to oppress menfolk and unfairly shield the nymphettes from the consequences of their own lusts.

I am getting the impression that it is not only misogynism, but also the antithesis of maniliess, entering marriage to get, rather than to give.

Probably not a coincidence that many of the MGOTW types aren’t actually surrounded by women who want to drag them to the altar anyway. I sense some sour grapes as well.

 

[Brassring]

Another possibility is to put the assets into a revocable trust, with you as a beneficiary. In most states, assets placed into a trust prior to marriage are not subject to community property. When you have children, you can add them as beneficiaries of the trust.

You won’t need your fiancé’s permission or signature to put assets into a trust.

 

[AdamP88]

You don’t have to go into the marriage suspicious at all, but it seems to make sense to recognize a very realistic possibility. I’d bet most Catholic marriages that end in divorce started out with neither person believing it would happen to them.

That’s very vague though. There’s a difference between Catholics who believe in marriage as an indissoluble union and those that don’t.

 

[AdamP88]

While I’m sure some of that kind of talk is indeed coming from pedophiles, I can think of a lot of other subcultures that encourage very young marriage, at least for females, and I think much of it is not about finding them sexy, but due to the idea that God, or Nature, or whatever, NEVER meant for women to be independent adults. They were just meant to be semi-men who are designed merely to serve men and only valuable in that capacity, but who do not have the same inherent worth or dignity.

Now, few men will admit to actually wanting to subjugate women just because, so they have to justify it by painting themselves as victims who are just defending themselves from those evil feminists who were never meant to have any power, because all women are essentially immature manipulative nymphettes who would naturally run wild gratifying their selfish whims if given a chance, and needing the strong hand of a man to keep them in their place. They also tend to blame “feminists” for all of the social ills.

I actually find the rape apologia engaged by some of this demographic, worse than the ephebophilia, as most of the “old enough to bleed, old enough to breed” types will insist that such young women are fully capable of consenting to sex, and that statutory rape laws are just another way for feminists to oppress menfolk and unfairly shield the nymphettes from the consequences of their own lusts.

Probably not a coincidence that many of the MGOTW types aren’t actually surrounded by women who want to drag them to the altar anyway. I sense some sour grapes as well.

Yes…the manosphere/MGTOW movement are nuts. And misogynistic and deluded.
I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Viki63]

This makes divorce sound like a natural disaster, or some illness. It is 100% choice on the part of two people. If the two choose to stay married for life, then they will not divorce.

Sometimes there is no choice, as in the case of domestic abuse/violence. People do not always see the warning signs before the wedding.

.

 

[AdamP88]

I am, actually, although I am certainly happy my husband married me and I hope for my children to marry and have good marriages. But I don’t want to derail the thread. I think it’s perfectly reasonable for the OP to want to secure property to future generations–that’s been done for a long time–but agree that a prenup isn’t the only or even best way to do it. (Just don’t leave your hypothetical wife in Mrs. Bennett’s position, eh?)

I don’t see the appeal for a woman. I can see if for a guy, especially the ones consistently rejected by women, but why would woman go along with their view of women.