Full metanoia

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

I was under the impression that a full metanoia was as one sees here, in the Roman case:

holycrossseminary.com/images/2005/prostration_of_the_minister.jpg

But apparently this is not the case. Does the kind of prostration one sees in the picture I linked to not exist in the non-latin churches? If so, what is its technical name?

 

[MorEphrem]

I honestly have no idea how the Latin prostration came to be in the form it exists today, but it is a deviation from the Eastern practice inherited from the Jews (which in turn, the Muslims inherited from Christians). Anyway, no, I know of no non-Latin Church that employs the use of lying down fully as a prostration (to be clear, the traditional Eastern practice is usually one signs themselves, gets on their kneels and then touches their forehead to the ground).

 

[Vico]

I was under the impression that a full metanoia was as one sees here, in the Roman case:

holycrossseminary.com/images/2005/prostration_of_the_minister.jpg

But apparently this is not the case. Does the kind of prostration one sees in the picture I linked to not exist in the non-latin churches? If so, what is its technical name?

Catholic Encyclopedia has: “The act of falling down, or prostration, was introduced in Rome when the Cæsars brought from the East the Oriental custom of worshipping the emperors in this manner as gods.”
Bergh, Frederick Thomas. “Genuflexion.” The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 6. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1909. 23 Mar. 2014
newadvent.org/cathen/06423a.htm

 

[MichaelinMD]

I was under the impression that a full metanoia was as one sees here, in the Roman case:

holycrossseminary.com/images/2005/prostration_of_the_minister.jpg

But apparently this is not the case. Does the kind of prostration one sees in the picture I linked to not exist in the non-latin churches? If so, what is its technical name?

I seriously doubt that a metanoia, being a change of heart/mind, a repentance, etc. could be captured on film. Now, a metania, on the other hand… . (Just clarifying for accuracy….)

 

[Basilian]

A small bow is a bending of the head at the neck.

A profound bow is a bending of the body at the waist.

A metania (метание) is a full bowing down of the body so that one’s face, hands, knees, and feet touch the floor, as in the Chinese kowtow or the Muslim sujūd/sajdah.

A prostration is a full contact of the whole face & body on the floor, lying down on the stomach as in Latin-rite and Byzantine-rite ordinations.

The picture you posted, ora_et_labora, is prostration, whether East or West. A metania is this:

3.bp.blogspot.com/-3TxYQ7N4AYA/UNs1XZy1FUI/AAAAAAAAJjs/jYst3vvrn7g/s1600/Sujud%20%28Sajdah%29%20Wallpapers%20%285%29.jpg

 

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

I seriously doubt that a metanoia, being a change of heart/mind, a repentance, etc. could be captured on film. Now, a metania, on the other hand… . (Just clarifying for accuracy….)

My bad

 

[MichaelinMD]

My bad

Nothin’ bad about it! Certainly an easy mistake to make.

But…a metania without the metanoia is probably an empty gesture.

In Christ,
MinM

 

[dzheremi]

or the Muslim sujūd/sajdah.

Uh…I take it you mean “Arabic”, not “Muslim”. We call it “sujud” in the Arabic-speaking churches, too…

the name of the Holy Trinity)Nasgud****We prostrate before/bow to

 

[Basilian]

Uh…I take it you mean “Arabic”, not “Muslim”. We call it “sujud” in the Arabic-speaking churches, too…

Coptic taraneem "Nasgud li-ism il-Thaluth" (We prostrate before/bow to the name of the Holy Trinity)

I apologize if I caused any offense, dzheremi. I was using the Islamic sujud as an example for Westerners. They are more familiar with it than the Christian word “metania”.

 

[dzheremi]

You’ve missed the point. “Sujud” is not a “Muslim” word in the first place (and sujud/prostration as a practice is certainly not Islamic to the exclusion of the religions that predated Muhammad; tell that to the Arabic-speaking Mizrahi Jews and many different kinds of Arabic-speaking Christians). It is an Arabic word. Muslims do not own the Arabic language.

 

[ronyodish]

Basilian,

As dzheremi says, the Arabic term sujud is used by Arabic-speaking Christians.

It comes from the Aramaic term sgada, which is used by Aramaic-speaking Christians.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Andonios]

I seriously doubt that a metanoia, being a change of heart/mind, a repentance, etc. could be captured on film. Now, a metania, on the other hand… . (Just clarifying for accuracy….)

The poster used the proper term. Metania/Metanoia is pronounced the same, but spelled differently depending on whether one is spelling trans literally or audibly. Μετάνοια is the Greek spelling. The ‘οι’ combo is pronounced like a long ‘e’. The fact that the same word is used speaks greatly to the all-encompassing aspect of our prayer and repentance, utilizing both body and soul.It is also this all-encompassing understanding that brings about the Canon (20 from Council of Nicaea) regarding not making a μετάνοια on Sunday.

 

[MichaelinMD]

The poster used the proper term. Metania/Metanoia is pronounced the same, but spelled differently depending on whether one is spelling trans literally or audibly. Μετάνοια is the Greek spelling. The ‘οι’ combo is pronounced like a long ‘e’. The fact that the same word is used speaks greatly to the all-encompassing aspect of our prayer and repentance, utilizing both body and soul.It is also this all-encompassing understanding that brings about the Canon (20 from Council of Nicaea) regarding not making a μετάνοια on Sunday.

Christ is Risen!!

NOT in any of the Orthodox (Antiochian and OCA) or Byzantine Catholic churches I’ve ever been in.

The fact that metania comes from metanoia, is an interesting progression. A metanoia would, hopefully inspire and lead to the metania.

 

[Andonios]

Christ is Risen!!

NOT in any of the Orthodox (Antiochian and OCA) or Byzantine Catholic churches I’ve ever been in.

The fact that metania comes from metanoia, is an interesting progression. A metanoia would, hopefully inspire and lead to the metania.

Truly He is Risen. It doesn’t come from, it is the same word. Μετάνοια. The fact that non Greeks don’t pronounce the Greek word properly says nothing to the word/meaning itself

If you read Greek, or are good with Google translate you can see here: greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/lexica/triantafyllides/search.html?lq=%CE%9C%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%B1

Contextually, if one is fulfilling their canon (prayer rule), often times there will be a number of prostrations/μετάνοια prescribed of varying degrees (half bow w/ sign of the cross, full knee and forehead to the ground w/ sign of the cross, no bow with sign of the cross) all in conjunction with a supplicatory prayer of either the Jesus Prayer or one to the Theotokos or patron. In this context, or even before venerating relics where we give a large metania 3 times (to the knees and forehead on the ground) quickly, this is typically still referred to as a metania. When one settles on the ground like this for a length of time, sometimes this is referred to as a προσκύνησις which serves a different purpose. You’ll see this outside of the Pentecostarion when the Holy Gifts are being consecrated or during the Lenten Presanctified Liturgy services where the Body and Blood are actually processed.During the season of Pentecost, we refrain from this and simply hold a half metania a lot of the time as we would during any entrance or receiving a blessing from the Priest at the bema.

 

[MichaelinMD]

Truly He is Risen. It doesn’t come from, it is the same word. Μετάνοια. The fact that non Greeks don’t pronounce the Greek word properly says nothing to the word/meaning itself

If you read Greek, or are good with Google translate you can see here: greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/lexica/triantafyllides/search.html?lq=%CE%9C%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%B1

Contextually, if one is fulfilling their canon (prayer rule), often times there will be a number of prostrations/μετάνοια prescribed of varying degrees (half bow w/ sign of the cross, full knee and forehead to the ground w/ sign of the cross, no bow with sign of the cross) all in conjunction with a supplicatory prayer of either the Jesus Prayer or one to the Theotokos or patron. In this context, or even before venerating relics where we give a large metania 3 times (to the knees and forehead on the ground) quickly, this is typically still referred to as a metania. When one settles on the ground like this for a length of time, sometimes this is referred to as a προσκύνησις which serves a different purpose. You’ll see this outside of the Pentecostarion when the Holy Gifts are being consecrated or during the Lenten Presanctified Liturgy services where the Body and Blood are actually processed.During the season of Pentecost, we refrain from this and simply hold a half metania a lot of the time as we would during any entrance or receiving a blessing from the Priest at the bema.

Well, some of the folks I knew making the distinction were Greek and Greek Orthodox. Go figure . I personally neither speak nor read Greek. English, Hebrew, and a tiny, tiny bit of Russian are about all my remaining brain cell can handle.

Anyway, it seems we’re getting a little too nit-picky even for me What I know is that there is a changing of one’s heart/mind, a repentance–an act of the will and spirit. And there is also the physical act of a small bow. If they are the same word in Greek, so be it. One can have the repentance without making the bow. One can make the bow without having repented. One can do both…or neither. I try, usually unsuccessfully, to keep things, for myself at least if not for anyone else, simple.

In Christ,
MinM