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SIA
Guest
I don’t know. I thought that maybe some of you would.
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SIA
Guest
I didn’t say anything that wasn’t so. Why should I have not posted it?
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dzheremi
Guest
I’m sorry if it came out that way. I do not feel that I have any superiority complex. I did not become a Catholic to bully non-Catholics. I’m only trying to figure out what point you’re trying to make, since I’m still not getting it.
If I thought I was superior to you, I probably wouldn’t be admitting my ignorance.
Seriously, how is what the Catholic Church asserts about itself different than what any other church asserts about itself, with regard to this issue? I have just read in another thread that you are Anglican. What does the Anglican Church say about itself? Does it say “We have part of the truth, but not all of it”?
Is it the fact that the Catholic Church openly delcares itself to have the fullness of truth that bothers you? I could see how that could be construed as arrogance, but let me ask you: If you were sure that you had the fullness of truth, why would you hesitate in letting both people who are within your church and outside of it know about that? I remember growing up as a Presbyterian, we did not hesitate to preach our form of the Gospel to others, including Catholics, as we thought it to be the basis of the truth of our church and our faith. Is that also arrogance?
If I thought I was superior to you, I probably wouldn’t be admitting my ignorance.
Seriously, how is what the Catholic Church asserts about itself different than what any other church asserts about itself, with regard to this issue? I have just read in another thread that you are Anglican. What does the Anglican Church say about itself? Does it say “We have part of the truth, but not all of it”?
Is it the fact that the Catholic Church openly delcares itself to have the fullness of truth that bothers you? I could see how that could be construed as arrogance, but let me ask you: If you were sure that you had the fullness of truth, why would you hesitate in letting both people who are within your church and outside of it know about that? I remember growing up as a Presbyterian, we did not hesitate to preach our form of the Gospel to others, including Catholics, as we thought it to be the basis of the truth of our church and our faith. Is that also arrogance?
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SIA
Guest
There isn’t a form of the Gospel. There is only the one true Gospel. There is only one true Church and it has nothing to do with what man has made. It has to do with Christ and his foundation. We Anglicans believe that we are part of the fullness of faith along with Catholics, Lutherans and others who share in the fullness of Jesus’ truth. There are members of the one true Church scattered about in many many denominations.I’m sorry if it came out that way. I do not feel that I have any superiority complex. I did not become a Catholic to bully non-Catholics. I’m only trying to figure out what point you’re trying to make, since I’m still not getting it.
If I thought I was superior to you, I probably wouldn’t be admitting my ignorance.
Seriously, how is what the Catholic Church asserts about itself different than what any other church asserts about itself, with regard to this issue? I have just read in another thread that you are Anglican. What does the Anglican Church say about itself? Does it say “We have part of the truth, but not all of it”?
Is it the fact that the Catholic Church openly delcares itself to have the fullness of truth that bothers you? I could see how that could be construed as arrogance, but let me ask you: If you were sure that you had the fullness of truth, why would you hesitate in letting both people who are within your church and outside of it know about that? I remember growing up as a Presbyterian, we did not hesitate to preach our form of the Gospel to others, including Catholics, as we thought it to be the basis of the truth of our church and our faith. Is that also arrogance?
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dzheremi
Guest
Perhaps I used the wrong term here. I meant to refer to how Catholic and Protestant Bibles are canonically different. This is not a slander, but an absolute fact. Anyone who has compared the NAB to the NIV (which I grew up using as a Presbyterian) or another Protestant version can tell you that. Here is a thread about the differences between Catholic and Protestant bibles: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=289085
I do not mean to degrade your faith by pointing this out. The canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewaheedo Church is much wider than either yours or ours, and I would likewise not degrade them for that.
These differences mirror differences in our approach to the text, no matter what canon we use. This is another aspect of what divides us, whether we’re talking Protestant/Catholic, Orthodox/Catholic, Protest Denomination 1/Protestant Denomination 2, etc. These differences are entirely man-made, since we can all (hopefully) agree that it wasn’t God who created the many different denominations we see today!
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Jesus is the Word of God; John the Baptist (Yahya in Quran) is the Word of God. Both Jesus and John the Baptist were fullness of Truth, perfect men; that is why they both were selected by God Allah as Messengers Prophets of the Jews, in my opinion.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.
P.S.
One should not rest satisfied with partial Truth; when fullness of Truth is attainable.
Thanks
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Genesis315
Guest
Per the OP:
I would respond: Can someone be saved who says to God, “In your infinite wisdom you have revealed many truths in your love for us, because you desire all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Your Son also instructed His Church to teach all these things to all nations unto the end of the earth. But Father, I don’t think most of it really matters–sure, you’re the God of perfect wisdom, but it really doesn’t make a difference exactly what you revealed for us, it really isn’t for our ultimate good.”
Do you think one can be saved who places such faith in their own wisdom over the wisdom of the eternal Father?
The fullness of Truth is salvific because God has revealed it all for that purpose because He loves us and desires our ultimate good.
I would respond: Can someone be saved who says to God, “In your infinite wisdom you have revealed many truths in your love for us, because you desire all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Your Son also instructed His Church to teach all these things to all nations unto the end of the earth. But Father, I don’t think most of it really matters–sure, you’re the God of perfect wisdom, but it really doesn’t make a difference exactly what you revealed for us, it really isn’t for our ultimate good.”
Do you think one can be saved who places such faith in their own wisdom over the wisdom of the eternal Father?
The fullness of Truth is salvific because God has revealed it all for that purpose because He loves us and desires our ultimate good.
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underdog
Guest
Do you believe that Christians who reject the claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church do not know God through Christ?
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underdog
Guest
It is so funny that the Roman Catholic Church claims the fullness of truth about an infinite being. We know God is infinite with many mysteries that the Catholic Church waivers and changes with the seasons. Heck, the CCC already states that they do not understand many things, such as infants who die without baptism, salvation for Muslims and Jews, etc.I’m sorry if it came out that way. I do not feel that I have any superiority complex. I did not become a Catholic to bully non-Catholics. I’m only trying to figure out what point you’re trying to make, since I’m still not getting it.
If I thought I was superior to you, I probably wouldn’t be admitting my ignorance.
Seriously, how is what the Catholic Church asserts about itself different than what any other church asserts about itself, with regard to this issue? I have just read in another thread that you are Anglican. What does the Anglican Church say about itself? Does it say “We have part of the truth, but not all of it”?
Is it the fact that the Catholic Church openly delcares itself to have the fullness of truth that bothers you? I could see how that could be construed as arrogance, but let me ask you: If you were sure that you had the fullness of truth, why would you hesitate in letting both people who are within your church and outside of it know about that? I remember growing up as a Presbyterian, we did not hesitate to preach our form of the Gospel to others, including Catholics, as we thought it to be the basis of the truth of our church and our faith. Is that also arrogance?
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withwind
Guest
You are confused. Here is the thread that you created and people answered to your question.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=293271
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
It’s biblical.
John 16
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but they are too much for you now. 13 But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth.
1 Tim 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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dzheremi
Guest
How does any of this answer my question? Wow, you guys are bad at this.
Also, with people like you the Church is “damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t”. If the Church claimed to understand all of the things you mention above (which it can’t, of course), you would claim it as more evidence of arrogance and pridefulness, but since it doesn’t, you bash the Church anyway for its admission that it can’t know everything.
I guess the only conclusion any serious person can draw is that it sure is a good thing that the Church does not exist to placate fussy brats like you.
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underdog
Guest
The Church describled in the Bible is not exclusively the Roman Catholic Church. It is funny how Roman Catholics try to talk about the Church who Christ died for being the Roman Catholic Church. Do you see the differrence? The church is made up of individuals who are united to the person of Jesus Christ, and it’s quite universal.
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underdog
Guest
God the Holy Spirit is the One who leads God’s people to all truth. The Roman Catholic Church is not God the Holy Spirit. Nor is the Roman Catholic Church the same as the church described in the Bible. Some in the Roman Catholic Church can be part of the universal church.
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dzheremi
Guest
You are mixed up in the extreme, sir. Jesus Christ did not die for a Church, he founded one, and it is holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Jesus Christ died for all of humanity…that is truly universal.
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underdog
Guest
Okay, let’s see how your belief compares to the Scriptures…
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” - Matthew 1:21
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” - Mark 10:45
John 10
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep….
22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, [1] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
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dzheremi
Guest
Um…everything you just posted is consistent with what I posted. 
And most of it does not deal with the issue at hand, but with the fact that Jesus came for all of humanity, which is precisely what I wrote. You’re the one claiming that He died for a specific church. I claim he founded one, and that is to be found in Matthew 16:18, where Jesus tells Peter that He will build His Church upon him. Catholics take Peter to be the first Pope of our Church, based on the authority of Jesus’ declaration.
If you’re going to go “sola scriptura” on me, at least be clear about the relationship of the scriptures you choose to privately interpret to what it is we’re actually talking about, please
And most of it does not deal with the issue at hand, but with the fact that Jesus came for all of humanity, which is precisely what I wrote. You’re the one claiming that He died for a specific church. I claim he founded one, and that is to be found in Matthew 16:18, where Jesus tells Peter that He will build His Church upon him. Catholics take Peter to be the first Pope of our Church, based on the authority of Jesus’ declaration.
If you’re going to go “sola scriptura” on me, at least be clear about the relationship of the scriptures you choose to privately interpret to what it is we’re actually talking about, please
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underdog
Guest
Please read the biblical text again. It is quite exclusive in nature.Um…everything you just posted is consistent with what I posted.
And most of it does not deal with the issue at hand, but with the fact that Jesus came for all of humanity, which is precisely what I wrote. You’re the one claiming that He died for a specific church. I claim he founded one, and that is to be found in Matthew 16:18, where Jesus tells Peter that He will build His Church upon him. Catholics take Peter to be the first Pope of our Church, based on the authority of Jesus’ declaration.
If you’re going to go “sola scriptura” on me, at least be clear about the relationship of the scriptures you choose to privately interpret to what it is we’re actually talking about, please
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” - Matthew 1:21
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” - Mark 10:45
John 10
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep….
22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, [1] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
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