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CWBetts
Guest
You have been deceived by anti-Catholic rhetoric
- Status
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graceandglory
Guest
The New Testament authors were referring to the Old Testament scripture when they wrote. You wouldn’t have your New Testament Scriptures as they are if an infallible Church did not deem them so.
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Teneas
Guest
Dude, wrong thread man. This isn’t about Catholics here, so stop bashing us on every single thread.
reads the thread name again Yep…thought it said Fundamentalism and Atheism.
Your colors shine through more and more.
The above quote was only so I could say it to who it was meant to be said to, without confusion.
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AntiTheist
Guest
That’s an excellent comparison. There is no evidence that a god of any kind exists, just as there is no evidence that a tooth fairy of any kind exists. The difference is the influence of the belief.
If there were a very large group of people who believed in the Tooth Fairy and wished to legislate on the basis of beliefs that derive from their belief in the Tooth Fairy, then I would certainly bother pointing out that there’s no evidence to believe in the Tooth Fairy either.
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AmateurPianist
Guest
Infallible implies following a repeatable process that is incapable of being incorrect (example pope speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals).
In the case of discerning the canon, it is not necessary that those who did it be following a repeatable process that is incapable of being incorrect. It is only necessary that their output is judged to be 100% correct.
And the verdict of history is that their output is 100% correct.
I accept the verdict of history. I do not care whether the men who put together the canon were following a repeatable process that is incapable of being incorrect or not.
Oh in real life, fallible humans all the time judge output as being 100% correct that is not created by an infallible process. So either real life does not make sense, or this case does make sense.
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jericho777
Guest
I have been set free only by the written infaiilibe word of God.
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teadough
Guest
Obviously you have no idea what I was even try to convey because that is not even remotely the point I was making.
Peace
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teadough
Guest
Obviously you have no idea what I was even try to convey because that is not even remotely the point I was making.
Peace
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teadough
Guest
Why bother? Is it some sort of rights you feel you are not getting? Why do you let something like the idea if God bother you so much? I don’t let Atheist and tooth fairy believers bother me.
It comes down to Acceptance. People talk about how they ‘respect’ others beliefs or lack of, but the truth of the matter is they don’t really have acceptance.
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CWBetts
Guest
Not as long as you deny that the Bible is a Catholic book.
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CWBetts
Guest
If the Church is fallible, how do you know they got the list of books right? The chaos of Protestantism came from one man changing the books.
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AmateurPianist
Guest
Now let us be accurate. The church is not a process. Therefore by definition the church is not capable of being incorrect unless everything said and done by the church is guaranteed to be incapable of being incorrect. That is now what you are claiming.
Now ‘The pope speaking ex-cathedra in a matter of faith and morals’ is a process and (like any other process) has the potential of being incapable of being incorrect.
Anyway, it is absolutely not necessary for a process that is incapable of being incorrect to be followed in order for me to know the output is correct. I will illustrate with a very simple example.
Here is a simple computer program I am writing
#include <stdio.h>
main() /* a simple program that prings Hello world */
{
printf("Hello world
");
}
Now if this computer program is executed on properly running hardware and an appropriate operating system, this computer program is guaranteed to be incapable of being incorrect. It will print “hello world” to whatever output device I direct it to.
But I do not claim myself to be incapable of being incorrect in writing programs, as anyone who has supported or fixed any of my programs has found out.
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graceandglory
Guest
Lovingly provided to you by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church at the Council of Hippo in 393, affirmed at the Council of Carthage in 397, and declared definitive at the Council of Florence in 1441. All before the printing press made bibles available to regular people to read for themselves, and back in a time when less than 10% of the world’s population could even read. ***
So glad you trusted the Catholic Church on that one.
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graceandglory
Guest
"To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant."
Cardinal Newman
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AntiTheist
Guest
No, it’s not the “idea of God” – it’s the fact that believers in gods try to legislate on the basis of their beliefs.Why bother? Is it some sort of rights you feel you are not getting? Why do you let something like the idea if God bother you so much? I don’t let Atheist and tooth fairy believers bother me.
It’s theists who are pushing to have pseudo-science taught in science classes, make everyone pray in public schools, and insist that a subset of the population shouldn’t be allowed to marry.
I prefer to live in a society where science is taught in science classrooms, where prayer is either something personal or practiced in private institutions, and where all people have equal rights (regardless of sexual orientation). Since it’s the religious who are against these things, I think it’s fair game to call them on the stuff they believe.
Now, if all religious people kept their beliefs to themselves and never tried to legislate or act on the basis of them, I would probably care as much as I do about the tooth fairy.
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CWBetts
Guest
No one is trying to FORCE people to pray in schools. However, it should not be banned either. It is the atheist minority that is trying to enforce their misbegotten beliefs (or lack thereof) on the Christian majority. No mention of God in the public square, suspend the concept of equal use of public facilities for those who realize there is something bigger than humanity out there. I agree with St. Thomas Aquinas–not only is belief resonable, non-belief is absurd.
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jericho777
Guest
The bible is the word of God because the Holy Spirit wrote it and stands apart from any decisions of all the fallible men in the Church .
Lovingly provided to you by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church at the Council of Hippo in 393, affirmed at the Council of Carthage in 397, and declared definitive at the Council of Florence in 1441. All before the printing press made bibles available to regular people to read for themselves, and back in a time when less than 10% of the world’s population could even read. ***
So glad you trusted the Catholic Church on that one.
So glad I put my trust in the only infallible God.
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Dokimas
Guest
I’m not going to argue with you about history. That’s not the big issue for me. I’ve made it plain why I’ll remain as I am. BTW, I’ve been doing some studying myself over the last 35 yrs.
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ALLGIRLS
Guest
So, you at least have to admit that the men at those aforementioned councils were all Catholics, right? And believed in all those “erroneous” Catholic doctrines that you reject? How then, can you trust that they got the canon of Scripture correct, if the Holy Spirit wasn’t guiding them properly in anything else?The bible is the word of God because the Holy Spirit wrote it and stands apart from any decisions of all the fallible men in the Church .
You seriously need to study history. The Bible didn’t fall out of the sky, Jesus didn’t pass Bibles out (definately not KJVs!) before He Ascended, and God wasn’t whispering in all the writers’ ears dictating what He wanted to say. There were also lots of other writings that at one time or other were considered Scripture by some that didn’t make it into the Canon, and a few that did make it that weren’t considered Scripture by everyone at all times. The Holy Spirit protects and inspires THE CHURCH, who then decides things like Doctrine and Canons. The Bible came from the Church, not the other way around.
In Christ,
Ellen
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Dokimas
Guest
Except for the pseudo-science of evolution, most if not all of modern day areas of science were started by believers in the Creator of the Universe.
Not to believe in the Creator takes far more faith than I can muster up. The ordered universe and solar system logicaly doesn’t happen by chance; it takes no faith to see that. It takes tons of faith to believe the big bang resulted in the U and the SS.
When God was kicked out of schools it was done so by those that espouse the religion of atheism. Make no mistake, you are a religious person.- Status