Fundamentalism

[Texan_in_DC]

catholicapologetics.net/apolo_49.htm

There have been Protestant molestations also. Any one in power is capable of abusing that power, be they Priest, Pastor, Rabbi, teacher, doctor or The President of the United States. The above site list some molestations by Protestant ministers. I have no idea why the media covers the priest molestations more then the Protestant ones.

The church is made up of humans, with human failings. You have to take that into account.

Also, you seem to be throwing everything and the Kitchen sink at us. Could you start a seperate thread on each of these issues?

In the pre christian greek societies this was a norm, women were only used to produce more children.

Also in College I was a manager in Security for a water park, everyday let me repeat everyday we would catch grown men watching boys in the locker rooms showering, or using the facilities.

One day I caught a man who was one of the group leaders for The Boys Club, misbehaving.

Places like the Boys Club, YMCA, water parks… attract men who have this illness, it is apart of our society.

I believe dateline has a special series on this just a few weeks ago, they caught doctors, lawyers, even a naked Rabi.

It has always been here, and always will. As a parent you have to know where your kids are, at all times.

This is not a Catholic problem this is a society problem.

Please also note that in our Lords Prayer we say forgive us of our tresspassees as we forgive others who tresspass against us. we are saying forgive us of our sins as we forgive others who sin against us.

Again forgive us of our sins AS WE forgive others who sin against us, this is why we should not judge others.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

jim1130:

My wife, a Catholic, left me (“irreconcilable difference”) and, devastated, I sought solace and support with the parish priest, and that comprised of one indifferent meeting. I spoke with the sister associated with the parish. She was little help either, although more compassionate than the priest. Both, in a way, said “Divorce is part of American life anymore” with an accompanying sigh… I just want you to reconsider because life truly is a marathon and the simplicity of Fundamentalism prepares you only for the sprint, not the long course. Good luck.

Thanks for that.

My last two experiences with attending a Catholic Mass. Second last one was a funeral. The priest spoke about, “where does the dead person go”? He said that if Cl— (deseased persons name), died with a mortal sin on her soul, she went to hell. He elaborated, that if she missed mass on Sunday, did not go to confession by Thursday when she died, she was in hell. I just about left right there.

I do believe in Hell and I believe many people will be there. However I do not believe that the Bible teaches that if one misses Mass and fails to go to a “catholic” confession prior to their death and after missing their Sunday Mass, they go to hell. I saw it and see it as a scare tactic to keep people going to mass. Keep people filling the donation plate (not sounding sarcastic, but my belief). Just like having a “prayer said” when you pay money. JUst like my priest said, when he wanted $1500 for the annullment. He was “tipped” for the wedding ceremony.

My last visit, I came late as I would not miss my church service so I got there for my nephews 1st communion. (I went to please family…I really could not stand it). However I got there right in time for an associate to ask for a “special offering” for the priest’s retirement…or something)…the basket was passed around again (end of service). I could not wait to leave.

My mother’s Parish’s sister church was just closed down. It upset allot of Catholics in my mother’s community. It was closed because attendance was too low.

Does God’s church close because of attendance. I will honestly tell you this. My church does not issue “tax receipts”. This based on certain regulations required. Plus they often threaten to “pull your tax exepmt” status now and again (I have news paper articles…the government that is). Anyway, our offerings when looked at per individual…are high compared to catholic churches I am familiar with (I review the tax return on line) etc… My point being, my born again brothers and sisters love to give. My pastor would continue his Sunday school hour and his two Sunday services, his wednesday night services and everything else…even if 1 person showed. That is the power of independance. Allot of good it did the Catholic parishiners who did attend that church.

My experience in my church now…I have never felt so much love and worship for god. Nothing I ever experienced in a catholic mass. I just remember “sshhhhhhh”.

But I thank you for sharing.

I truly do not believe “catholics” who believe they were “born again” at infant baptism" or as an adult by “water baptism” really understand, because they really have not been “born again”. I think I shall start a thread on that.

Thanks again.

 

[jim1130]

malachi_a_serva

It certainly is unfortunate that your experiences in the Catholic Church were negative. I think most of us on this thread can attest to have had less than pleasing experiences on occasion with priests and parishes, but the Mass is God-Worship and the Eucharist is the Real Presence. Do not allow yourself to lose focus on that.

One thing to remember about collections: In the Catholic Church, collections go to a variety of programs throughout the ArchDiocese/Diocese, not just the lone Church you attend. And, yes, each week there seem to be collections for different causes (Catholic Charities, Missions Home and Abroad, Retirement Funds for Priests and Nuns, etc.). My personal feeling is that you are being a little overly senstitive to these additional requests for funds from the Catholic Church. I do not contribute to each and every additional fund asked of me by my Church.

In comparison, for an independent church, such as the one you currently attend, money donated to that church stays directly in that church. It is not placed in a pot and shared with other churches throughout your area. It goes directly back into the pot (now, there may be charities associated, I don’t know, but the money generated typically stays within the direct and unimpeded pastor’s control)

What I want to say next may truly upset you and it is not my intent to present an idea that places you on the defensive (which this will); unfortunately, from my experiences, I believe it is a reality and an accurate representation so I am not willing to retreat from my stance and I offer this to you with a sincere and genuine concern.

Having worked on a major public university for many many years, I had more than my fair share of direct and personal experiences with fundamentalists and their beliefs (they thrive on college campuses). My conclusion is not scientifically proven, but here is my opinion: Fundamentalist sects prey on spiritually and/or emotionally weak and insecure individuals (the reason they thrive on college campuses is because of the large number of very impressionable youths who, without the guidance and guardianship of their parents, are easy pickings for the persuasive and convincing theological sales pitches of the dynamic and passionate fundamentalist speaker).

That may hurt, but I think it is an accurate representation of the fundamentalist agenda. Don’t you think that such efforts were applied to me? Do you not think that the immediate sincerity they exhibited was truly anything but genuine?

Hurt and stung by the divorce, feeling abandoned by the Catholic Church, you were probably in a fragile state. The fundamentalist offers immediate compansionship with a close-knit network of people and supposedly clear easy doctrine at the expense of Catholic doctrine. What I mean by the latter is that as they preach their doctrine, they bad-mouth the Catholic doctrine. They elevate their belief system by trampling the Catholics. You participate with your brethren in this tight circle where you feed off one another and reinforce one another with misrepresented information and out-of-context doctrine. In the process, you reaffirm your own sense of worth and value while claiming that the Catholics are evil and bed led by a devil.

In addition, from my personal experiences, your fundamentalist friends will not allow you the opportunity to have friends, true friends, outside your fundamentalist clique. Try to nurture relationships outside your church clique and see what develops. Typically, your church friends will try to occupy your time so that you have little or no time for outside friends. Your life will center around the fundamentalist church and the people attending.

By your own admission, you have presented information that says Jesus did not drink wine and that the wine was actually grapefruit juice. Sadly, it is this type of misinformation that can be easily bought by the fragile person. This is their man-made doctrine (and it is ironic that they condemn Catholics for alleged man-made doctrines) Try to have a beer or glass of wine in their presence and see how they react. You believe Catholics are judgemental? I can assure you that their retribution is particularly harsh. If you choose not to drink do so for your right reasons, not because you are led to believe alcohol is inherently evil by those who obviously mislead you with inaccurate information (and if you do not believe anyone on this Web site that Jesus drank wine then I encourage you to visit the local synagogue in your area and speak with the Rabbi about the role of wine in Jewish customs and practices).

(con’t)

 

[jim1130]

malachi_a_serva (con’t)

Now that you have selected this fundamentalist church, I hope that you understand should you ever choose to leave you will receive more pressure and applied guilt than you can ever imagine. Stand up before them to say “I am returning to the Catholic Church” and London during World War II never received a blitzkrieg equal to that which you will endure. You will not be contacted by one person at a time, but by several. It may even border on harassment. They will gang-up on you, lecture to you about the error or your ways, attempt persuasive sales pitches to work on your emotions, to manipulate your spiritual weakness. You can walk away from the Catholic Church and people may try to convince you to stay, but try to walk away from the fundamentalist church and see the type of resposne you will receive. You can argue that they genuinely care, but the reality is that they don’t. You may not believe this, but it shows that the fundamentalist church is not God-centered as much as me-centered.

Or, you know what, these “friends” may simple vanish from your world, brushing the dust of you from their sandals, so to speak. People that you thought were your friends will no longer be your friends. Maybe you will contact them, but they will not return calls. You may be ostracized worse then lepers. Applying passive-aggressive guilt may be their strongest weapon.

Remember, that fundamentalism is a 20th century made-in-America movement. They can try to pitch it and sell it to you as the authentic church of Christ, but they are wrong. It is a shame that you bought what they are selling.

I think that some of those on this site have already shown you your naiveté. Do not mislead yourself into thinking that you are witnessing for Christ or are being persecuted in the name of Jesus when you confront Catholics on this site. As cold and harash as this sounds, you will only show to them your foolishness and true absence of understanding.

No doubt you will share all of this with your fundamentalist “friends” (it is your way of witnessing to them that you are fighting the heathens of Rome and showing them the error of their ways), but it truly is a sad and futile exercise. People on this site probably feel more sorry for you then you can imagine, but do not expect them to show immense patience.

Don’t embarrass yourself by trying future posts because the spirituality, knowledge, and breadth of understanding demonstrated to you already by many people on this thread will make you look foolish. If you choose to stay with the fundamentalist church then spare yourself the embarrassment and do not post on this site if your motive is to educate us on how misinformed we are. It will not work.

In fact, people on this site have already shown you the error of your ways, but since God assigned allof us free will it is your decision whether oyu stay with the fundamentelist church or return to the Catholic Church.

Good luck on your journeys.

 

[SolaChristo]

jim1130:

malachi_a_serva (con’t)

Now that you have selected this fundamentalist church, I hope that you understand should you ever choose to leave you will receive more pressure and applied guilt than you can ever imagine. Stand up before them to say “I am returning to the Catholic Church” and London during World War II never received a blitzkrieg equal to that which you will endure. You will not be contacted by one person at a time, but by several. It may even border on harassment. They will gang-up on you, lecture to you about the error or your ways, attempt persuasive sales pitches to work on your emotions, to manipulate your spiritual weakness. You can walk away from the Catholic Church and people may try to convince you to stay, but try to walk away from the fundamentalist church and see the type of resposne you will receive. You can argue that they genuinely care, but the reality is that they don’t. You may not believe this, but it shows that the fundamentalist church is not God-centered as much as me-centered.

Or, you know what, these “friends” may simple vanish from your world, brushing the dust of you from their sandals, so to speak. People that you thought were your friends will no longer be your friends. Maybe you will contact them, but they will not return calls. You may be ostracized worse then lepers. Applying passive-aggressive guilt may be their strongest weapon.

Remember, that fundamentalism is a 20th century made-in-America movement. They can try to pitch it and sell it to you as the authentic church of Christ, but they are wrong. It is a shame that you bought what they are selling.

I think that some of those on this site have already shown you your naiveté. Do not mislead yourself into thinking that you are witnessing for Christ or are being persecuted in the name of Jesus when you confront Catholics on this site. As cold and harash as this sounds, you will only show to them your foolishness and true absence of understanding.

No doubt you will share all of this with your fundamentalist “friends” (it is your way of witnessing to them that you are fighting the heathens of Rome and showing them the error of their ways), but it truly is a sad and futile exercise. People on this site probably feel more sorry for you then you can imagine, but do not expect them to show immense patience.

Don’t embarrass yourself by trying future posts because the spirituality, knowledge, and breadth of understanding demonstrated to you already by many people on this thread will make you look foolish. If you choose to stay with the fundamentalist church then spare yourself the embarrassment and do not post on this site if your motive is to educate us on how misinformed we are. It will not work.

In fact, people on this site have already shown you the error of your ways, but since God assigned allof us free will it is your decision whether oyu stay with the fundamentelist church or return to the Catholic Church.

Good luck on your journeys.

I wish we could discuss your comments on nuetral grounds but since we cant I will say this to Malachi.
You have left the RCC. The folks on this board dont want to know about your individual journey, they dont care. Untill you are strong in the Lord I suggest you dont return to this site but find brothers and sisters in the Lord. People that have been hurt sometimes lash out, not meaning to against others. God has a plan and a purpose for your life. Seek Him and you will find that plan that purpose and He will lead you to it. No one here is open to new ideas they want to defend their own ideas (me included).
Peace — do as Jesus says when you tell people about your Lord and how He has changed your life if they are unreceptive dont argue with them wipe the dust off your feet and move on. Perhaps it is time for you to move on.

 

[St.Eric]

I do care about Malachi’s journey. I would say if none of us did, no one would have taken the time to respond as we have to the original post. I for one have “been there done that” with the fundamentalists and saw the error of it all. that’s what led me to the true church of Christ- the Catholic church. I too want Malachi to “come home” to the fullness of the truth. I wish this for everyone, even brother Sola. ANYONE who seriously studies the history of Christianity and the teachings of the Catholic church will only be led to one conclusion: The Catholic Church is the living body of Christ on this earth. It is the one True Church that Christ himself Built on Peter and it will endure until the end of time.

 

[jim1130]

St.Eric:

I do care about Malachi’s journey. I would say if none of us did, no one would have taken the time to respond as we have to the original post. I for one have “been there done that” with the fundamentalists and saw the error of it all. that’s what led me to the true church of Christ- the Catholic church. I too want Malachi to “come home” to the fullness of the truth. I wish this for everyone, even brother Sola. ANYONE who seriously studies the history of Christianity and the teachings of the Catholic church will only be led to one conclusion: The Catholic Church is the living body of Christ on this earth. It is the one True Church that Christ himself Built on Peter and it will endure until the end of time.

I hoped that I did not come across as rude or indifferent in my lenghty post to Malachi. That was not my intention and I would hate it if that was how it was presented. If so then my presentation needs considerable work. I was trying to share hard information in as constructive way as possible. I know that in the fundamentalist world the harder the Catholic pushes for return to the Catholic Church the more the fundamentalists push that person away from the CC. It is almost cultish, and a decompression tank is needed for all those who leave fundamentalism to return to the CC.

I think that fundamentalism is a hard journey and it really is up to the individual person to come to the realization that the “truth” fundamentalism presents is not accurate. We have already seen how they have deceived Malachi with the wine issue, and I would hazard to guess they encouraged him to cut-and-paste as if to say “Ah-ha, gotcha, Catholics!” Something as simple as opening Malachi’s eyes to the inaccuracy of the fundamentalist position on wine should reveal to Malachi a suspicion that if the fundamentalists are incorrect in that assertion then how many more claims are false.

 

[St.Eric]

jim1130:

I hoped that I did not come across as rude or indifferent in my lenghty post to Malachi. That was not my intention and I would hate it if that was how it was presented. If so then my presentation needs considerable work. I was trying to share hard information in as constructive way as possible. I know that in the fundamentalist world the harder the Catholic pushes for return to the Catholic Church the more the fundamentalists push that person away from the CC. It is almost cultish, and a decompression tank is needed for all those who leave fundamentalism to return to the CC.

I think that fundamentalism is a hard journey and it really is up to the individual person to come to the realization that the “truth” fundamentalism presents is not accurate. We have already seen how they have deceived Malachi with the wine issue, and I would hazard to guess they encouraged him to cut-and-paste as if to say “Ah-ha, gotcha, Catholics!” Something as simple as opening Malachi’s eyes to the inaccuracy of the fundamentalist position on wine should reveal to Malachi a suspicion that if the fundamentalists are incorrect in that assertion then how many more claims are false.

I don’t think you were harsh at all Jim. I enjoyed your previous post! I was responding to SolaChristo and his response to Malachi. I agree with your insights Jim about this whole issue. My experineces as a fundamentalist ring true to your words. ALl I can say is I am glad I came home to Rome!

 

[jim1130]

St.Eric:

I don’t think you were harsh at all Jim. I enjoyed your previous post! I was responding to SolaChristo and his response to Malachi. I agree with your insights Jim about this whole issue. My experineces as a fundamentalist ring true to your words. ALl I can say is I am glad I came home to Rome!

Thank you for reaffirming. I really prayed before I wrote (even thought of what I wanted to say last night when I read initial posts yesterday) so that I would NOT be all thumbs in my thoughts and on the keyboard. I really feel for Malachi and know that once among them it will be difficult to escape.

 

[SolaChristo]

imroc:

Funny thing is that you have found comfort in another protestant’s words that are plain and simply empty. Neither you or Sola answered any of our questions, but you continually ask your brother questions. You’ve gone down the one way where it’s all take and no give. You believe you give by “winning souls” but when have you really comitted to Jesus’ second command, thus returning the first command? You can run around the questions all week, but your not doing yourself any good. We’re not asking for much, but if you want this to be a dialogue, you’ll have to answer…and not only to us.

Stop hatin’

 

[imroc]

tomaskovarik:

Hi, me Tomas again.
I was talking about that person who was unkind to the originator of this threat. Maybe I should have used the “quote” button instead of the “reply” button? (I am also new to this).
Anyway, sometimes things sound differently when written (one cannot see your face as he/she reads your lines) and so that person’s reply (which I found unkind) may not have been intended that way.
If someone strays from the church and does many bad things and then (led by the Holy Spirit) turns around, that person should be applauded and welcome, pretty much as Jesus likened this to the lost sheep.
This site, by the way, appears to be incredibly helpful (want to hear my story?) and I am very happy that I found it, thanx to you all guys!!!

I am probably the most guilty of coming across the wrong way when typing… … it’s probably my passionate love for others expressed through a keyboard. I apologize to all for what I have done and what I have yet to do.

 

[imroc]

Sola, if you were to actually READ all ov my posts you would not find any hatred. You little one-liner is the problem with alot of fundamentalist posters. You come here, make a claim or a simple remark, don’t back it up, expect US to back up everything (which we do) and go on to another comment. Your comments have no substance. All you have done is replied with no solid word. It’s all about, “leave this site”, “leave the Church behind”, etc. Why? You want to come to a catholic site and then you talk about neutral ground? Did you expect solid catholics who know scripture and faith with the utmost sincerity to fold to a simple statement that has no historical, scriptural (within context!) and practical meaning? Please forgive me, but that is plain ridiculous.

I get the feeling that you are somewhat anti-catholic. I don’t know how deeply, but it’s obvious. I also get the feeling that you really cannot debate any issue with enough confidence, but almost feel like your on fire when you see some of these blunt comments. We do not sugar coat a thing. Bring up ANY scandal that has occured in the Church and you will get the TRUTH. We will admit to abused indulgences, inquisitions and such. Sure some of the clergy has covered up some things, but as a whole, the Church does NOT cover it up.

 

[deb1]

malachi_a_serva:

Thanks for that.

My last two experiences with attending a Catholic Mass. Second last one was a funeral. The priest spoke about, “where does the dead person go”? He said that if Cl— (deseased persons name), died with a mortal sin on her soul, she went to hell. He elaborated, that if she missed mass on Sunday, did not go to confession by Thursday when she died, she was in hell. I just about left right there.

I do believe in Hell and I believe many people will be there. However I do not believe that the Bible teaches that if one misses Mass and fails to go to a “catholic” confession prior to their death and after missing their Sunday Mass, they go to hell. I saw it and see it as a scare tactic to keep people going to mass. Keep people filling the donation plate (not sounding sarcastic, but my belief). Just like having a “prayer said” when you pay money. JUst like my priest said, when he wanted $1500 for the annullment. He was “tipped” for the wedding ceremony.

My last visit, I came late as I would not miss my church service so I got there for my nephews 1st communion. (I went to please family…I really could not stand it). However I got there right in time for an associate to ask for a “special offering” for the priest’s retirement…or something)…the basket was passed around again (end of service). I could not wait to leave.

My mother’s Parish’s sister church was just closed down. It upset allot of Catholics in my mother’s community. It was closed because attendance was too low.

Does God’s church close because of attendance. I will honestly tell you this. My church does not issue “tax receipts”. This based on certain regulations required. Plus they often threaten to “pull your tax exepmt” status now and again (I have news paper articles…the government that is). Anyway, our offerings when looked at per individual…are high compared to catholic churches I am familiar with (I review the tax return on line) etc… My point being, my born again brothers and sisters love to give. My pastor would continue his Sunday school hour and his two Sunday services, his wednesday night services and everything else…even if 1 person showed. That is the power of independance. Allot of good it did the Catholic parishiners who did attend that church.

My experience in my church now…I have never felt so much love and worship for god. Nothing I ever experienced in a catholic mass. I just remember “sshhhhhhh”.

But I thank you for sharing.

I truly do not believe “catholics” who believe they were “born again” at infant baptism" or as an adult by “water baptism” really understand, because they really have not been “born again”. I think I shall start a thread on that.

Thanks again.

Wow! Malachi. It sounds as though you have had the bad luck to come across the world’ s worst priests. Your experience is one reason why we have to remember that we are all ambassador’s for Christ. People judge Christianity by how its members act and even though it isn’t fair, the day that we decide to vent and release our emotions might be the very day that a nonChristian decides to judge our religion.

I do wonder if part of your experience might not be one of perception. I have several relatives who, much to my shame, are highly prejudice. Many times I have tried to get them to realize that they are stereotyping certain ethnic groups. But the response that I get is that “Every (fill in the blank of an ethnic group) that I know acts like that” The problem is that they are so biased that they only register those acts which fufill their expectations. I think that the same is happening to you. You have a certain perception about Catholics and you are only going to see those that fit your perception. Anything else you ignore.

As far as giving money. I don’t see passing a collection basket around as bad, or asking for money for a specific cause. I did have problems when I attended a fundamentalist church at the pressure that I was under to tithe 10%. Tithing was talked about a lot. We had speakers who spoke about how we should trust God for our needs and not worry about paying bills. God would provide. Because my hubby and I were having so much financial trouble, we spoke to the pastor. He assured us that no one would throw us out of the church for not tithing, but then he went on to give us a long lecture about having more trust in God. During that lecture he also informed us that the tithe should come out of our money before we bought food or paid bills and that although we were welcome to give extra funds to the poor, all 10% had to be given to the church. Several times during the year, we were also asked to give money for missions. THis was supposed to be beyond the 10% tithe. I have never had the pressure to tithe in a Catholic Church that I felt in a fundamentalist church.

 

[deb1]

malachi_a_serva:

My experience in my church now…I have never felt so much love and worship for god. Nothing I ever experienced in a catholic mass. I just remember “sshhhhhhh”.

.

Even during Protestant services you are not supposed to talk during the sermon. There is suppose to be order and it would be chaos if every one spoke up.

Perhaps you are speaking about the moments before mass. Yes, it is a quiet time. People are supposed to be preparing themselves to receive Christ. They are getting their minds, hearts and souls prepared through prayer. That is why when you enter a Catholic church you see people kneeling. I have explained to my daughters that is why we must not be loud. Why disturb someone during prayer? Surely as a child you noticed that the people around you were deep in prayer.

Even typing this, the idea that one day I will be able to partake of the Eucharist fills me with such joy that I want to cry. It is so sad that you have willingly given that up.

 

[deb1]

SolaChristo:

Stop hatin’

Actually considering the difference in views among fundamentalists and Cathlics, I think that both sides are doing well. Malachi does not seem shy, so I am certain that he would speak up if we were hurting his feelings.

As far as stop hatin’…I don’t hate or even dislike anyone on this thread. Malachi and you are probably both very nice sincere Christians. I just think that you are both wrong on some major issues. As this is a forum that allows debate and different beliefs you are going to get some strong opinions. That seems to be all that is happening here.

Malachi if you are female I apologize ahead of time for using masculine pronouns to describe you. I can’t tell anyone’s gender by their writing.

 

[Thinkin_Leavin]

deb1:

Wow! Malachi. It sounds as though you have had the bad luck to come across the world’ s worst priests. Your experience is one reason why we have to remember that we are all ambassador’s for Christ. People judge Christianity by how its members act and even though it isn’t fair, the day that we decide to vent and release our emotions might be the very day that a nonChristian decides to judge our religion.

I do wonder if part of your experience might not be one of perception. I have several relatives who, much to my shame, are highly prejudice. Many times I have tried to get them to realize that they are stereotyping certain ethnic groups. But the response that I get is that “Every (fill in the blank of an ethnic group) that I know acts like that” The problem is that they are so biased that they only register those acts which fufill their expectations. I think that the same is happening to you. You have a certain perception about Catholics and you are only going to see those that fit your perception. Anything else you ignore.

As far as giving money. I don’t see passing a collection basket around as bad, or asking for money for a specific cause. I did have problems when I attended a fundamentalist church at the pressure that I was under to tithe 10%. Tithing was talked about a lot. We had speakers who spoke about how we should trust God for our needs and not worry about paying bills. God would provide. Because my hubby and I were having so much financial trouble, we spoke to the pastor. He assured us that no one would throw us out of the church for not tithing, but then he went on to give us a long lecture about having more trust in God. During that lecture he also informed us that the tithe should come out of our money before we bought food or paid bills and that although we were welcome to give extra funds to the poor, all 10% had to be given to the church. Several times during the year, we were also asked to give money for missions. THis was supposed to be beyond the 10% tithe. I have never had the pressure to tithe in a Catholic Church that I felt in a fundamentalist church.

Well here I go giving this a try. I have been contemplating leaving the church for some time. I have been reading the various posts and threads and as a Catholic, I think to myself, “come on guys” (meaning everyone not just the guys).

Does noone want to fess up that we have serious problems and issues amungst us and in our parishes?

I too have catholic friends who do not put Christ first. Live like a Catholic only on Sunday and only for that one hour. They are the same ones that ridicule me and presure me the rest of the week to act and do things that everyone else does.
One priest I had (we have went through a bunch) lectured on if we are not giving 10% of our income, we are not giving what we should be.

The last little while I have been wanting more. I have received my sacraments. I find everytime I go to mass to be repetitious. I find lineing up for communion, looking at my friends all dressed up as if they were going to a club as not very God honouring. Just struggling with the whole thing.

I do believe the church was founded by Jesus but am leaning toward the church having moved away (THIS AFTER READING AND READING MY BIBLE AND BEING IN PRAYER).

 

[malachi_a_serva]

jim1130:

I hoped that I did not come across as rude or indifferent in my lenghty post to Malachi. That was not my intention and I would hate it if that was how it was presented. If so then my presentation needs considerable work. I was trying to share hard information in as constructive way as possible. I know .

We have already seen how they have deceived Malachi with the wine issue, and I would hazard to guess they encouraged him to cut-and-paste as if to say “Ah-ha, gotcha, Catholics!”

That last part is totally ridiculous. My church tells me to do nothing. They do not even preach the wine issue; it is just a position I know they agree with. No one has offended me. I really have “offended myself”…in seeing all the time I have been in front of my computer lately…enough to make me sick.

Talk about a cult….these message boards are almost that in itself. Addicting and time consuming. Time away from family, the church, our God honoring sharing of the gospel. All to debate this and that which the bible says not to do. So I will not do it anymore. I do appreciate all the feedback I have received. I truly believe I am not the one deceived and could go on and on with quoting many a scripture as well.

I do know…I have been there and done that and the experience I had was real and factual. Catholics are not persecuted “by the world”….why? Because they are of the world. And that is why I believe that none that profess to be “born again” at infant baptism were indeed born again.

Ponder that point. Catholics are not disliked by “the world”. Fundamentalist are…the Jesus freaks. I bet Catholics watch “Desperate Housewives”…and stuff like that. My point being is Catholics do things that are not God honoring. Do fundamentalists?…well none I know of.

Romans 12:2: “….Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

1 Cor. 10:31: “Whether therefore ye eat/ or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God”

Coll 3:17: “…Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus…”

Someone mentioned about refraining from wine but Baptists eat allot….in my congregation I am one of the “bigger” individuals……use to be a catholic. I see my brothers and sisters their all having everything they do in subjection to the word of God.

Thank you everyone for responding I do not believe this board or the time spent on it is God honoring to continue. Am I afraid of converting back….no.

Am I being pressured from my church…no. Comments like that really indicate how a good fundamental independent church is misrepresented. Is it a hard life?…yes being a true Christian is a hard life.

I wish all those who are truly “In Christ” a blessed season. All who aren’t, the prayer of salvation.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thinkin’ Leavin,

I left over 34 years ago. I’ve been “home” now going on 6 years. Leavin’ was a BIG mistake. Read My Story here. I wouldn’t do it again for anything.

Y’know…I have to kinda laugh at all the “horror stories” that I read in this thread.

One guy wants to knock the Catholic Church because we take up a special collection to do something good for somebody…as if they don’t take up a collection in his church to pay the bills. What I bet he doesn’t tell us is that his pastor has his own business outside of church. A common practice.

A parish is closed because there aren’t enough people there to support it…but people move away, and cities change. Being upset about that is understandable, but nothing to knock someone else’s church about.

Priests fail to be charitable…for whatever reasons and people fail to do the things that are commanded by Our Lord, but what I have discovered is that if I do what I KNOW I’m supposed to be doing as a Catholic, that I have found that things work out.

When I’m at Mass, I sometimes see people who aren’t dressed the way I think they should be, but ya know what…that isn’t my job right then. My life is focused on that altar and that miracle that is taking place up there, that I have the grace and blessing to be able to take part in.

What’s really important? My heart and my soul, and without those being right before Him then it wouldn’t matter if everyone else around me was walkin’-on-water-saints because I wouldn’t be one of 'em and might even be on my way to hell.

No…I’m not a “Jesus & me” type, but I recognized (the HARD way) that my faith is about me being faithful to Him, and about doing for Him in the least of the brethren (Matthew 25:31-46) whatever I can.

Fundamentalism? Nah, not interested. I been there and several other kinds of n-C religions and they were no better or worse than anybody else. In fact some of them were pretty mean and some where outright immoral hypocrites, but that doesn’t mean they all are. Some of them on here are not very nice to us Catholics just because they think they know what we believe and wanna argue about it. Y’know what? There is NO RULE anywhere that says that we have to answer 'em when they get like that. So just don’t…

1st Peter 3:14: But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
15: but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16: and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17: For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.

Fundamentalism has too many doctrines wrong for me to get interested, and worse still they ignore the fact that those doctrines weren’t even beleved by the early church. So why lose sleep over it? Be faithful to what we believe and let the Holy Spirit do HIS job.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[imroc]

malachi_a_serva:

Talk about a cult….these message boards are almost that in itself. Addicting and time consuming.

…Catholics are not persecuted “by the world”….why? Because they are of the world…Ponder that point…Catholics are not disliked by “the world”…Fundamentalist are…the Jesus freaks. …

I’d say that you’ve finally expressed some true feelings and have quit beating around the bush. While I seriously have tried not to insult or even steer you away even further, I find comments like this extremely typical of fundamentalist behavior. Cult? You claim that this message board takes away from time spent in church, family etc. But yet, you still keep typing. According to that crude statement I’m a “multi-involved cultist” since I belong to flyfishing, lab (dog), Notre Dame sports and faith boards that I frequent on a regular basis. Yet I still attend Mass and go to regular adult ed/Bible study classes…actually I just returned from Mass not long ago. Then you say that the Church isn’t persecuted by the world? Either you are one blinded individual or your just plain ignorant of Church allegations. You’ve brought some good points to the table, even though you constantly avoid our questions by bringing up other topics. But this comment is by far your most ignorant and childish act. My aim isn’t to chastise you, but I can’t think of any other way to get you rattled. But like you said, this board is taking up some family time right now and I have to get going. I’ll get into this further, later. Love,

imroc

 

[deb1]

Thinkin' Leavin:

Well here I go giving this a try. I have been contemplating leaving the church for some time. I have been reading the various posts and threads and as a Catholic, I think to myself, “come on guys” (meaning everyone not just the guys).

Does noone want to fess up that we have serious problems and issues amungst us and in our parishes?

I too have catholic friends who do not put Christ first. Live like a Catholic only on Sunday and only for that one hour. They are the same ones that ridicule me and presure me the rest of the week to act and do things that everyone else does.
One priest I had (we have went through a bunch) lectured on if we are not giving 10% of our income, we are not giving what we should be.

The last little while I have been wanting more. I have received my sacraments. I find everytime I go to mass to be repetitious. I find lineing up for communion, looking at my friends all dressed up as if they were going to a club as not very God honouring. Just struggling with the whole thing.

I do believe the church was founded by Jesus but am leaning toward the church having moved away (THIS AFTER READING AND READING MY BIBLE AND BEING IN PRAYER).

In all churches you will find those that don’t follow the tenants or act as they should. This doesn’t make the church bad. I have been in Baptist most of my life so I have seen both the good and the bad. Yet, I don’t judge the Baptist church by the bad apples. I do have problems with some of their theology which is why, of course, I am no longer Baptist.

As far as wanting more…This had been my observation of Catholics and some Protestants. In some Protestant churches, they spoon feed you the bible and religion. They surrond you with lots of events, bible studies and meetings. It is as though you were a child that couldn’t be trusted not to get lost. In the Catholic church, it seems to me, that you are treated as an adult and are expected to take more control of your own spiritual being.

Actually if you are looking for Catholics who take their faith seriously then this is the forum to come to. Most people here seem a little more orthodox then the average American Catholic.