Fundamentalist Nephew

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Hello!

I’ve been a Catholic for a year and a half. My nephew Koty has gotten involved in a wildly emotional Protestant church - with an attendance of many young people. Koty is 18. He is posting all kinds of stuff on Facebook about how Santa Claus is an idol, saying that people in organized religion are robots – you probably catch my drift.

I’m going to see Koty at our big family get-together for Christmas, and I’m not sure how to address his “conversion” experience. This church has a Bible College (I think that anyone can attend and it only lasts a few months, etc.) Koty has also been ordained a minster in this church. I think he has been brainwashed – all zeal and no common sense. He came from a turbulent, unstable family situation.

How do I talk to him when I see him? I feel like telling him that I’m going be leaving cookies and milk out for Santa on Christmas Eve. LOL That church is teaching my nephew some weird stuff.

Advice requested! Help!

Thanks!
 
The first thing I would say to you, aithorette is welcome home to Rome, and to the CAL forums. You say you are a new Catholic, but the affiliation listed for you is “Protestant”. You might want to change it. Just go into your profile and edit it. If you are not sure how I think you can click on the “Profile” tab above and “Your Profile” on the dropdown menu.

Now, getting to the point. As you can see, I am a convert myself. Easter of 2005. I was greatly influenced in my formidable years by the Independent Fundamental Baptists, so I kind of know the difficulty you are facing. In addition, I have a convert friend who converted before me whose mother is still a fundamentalist, and has accused him of having a demon. Very sad situation. Before he converted he could still talk to her about God stuff even though he wasn’t a fundamentalist, but now he’s on his way to the flames (in her eyes). What is strange is that she seems to be able to talk to me about God stuff even though she knows I too am a convert. It’s just that I speak to her in “Protestantese”. When she says “saved” I know what she means and I respond accordingly, of course clarifying “established a relationship with Jesus” vs. “saved”.

Your approach should definitely be one of charity and to treat him with dignity and respect, in spite of the fact that he may be rabidly anti-Catholic. You know the old expression, “Kill 'em with kindness.” One way to approach him would be to just sidestep any conversation about God unless it is generic in nature. Don’t let his negativity dominate the conversation. Keep reminding him gently that God’s creation is good; that yes, there are some very ungodly sentiments in our seemingly Godless society, but that there is also hope in Christ Jesus. Keep the conversation on Jesus and let him know that you consider Him to be the foundation of your faith.

If your Catholic affiliation comes up, I’m sure he will immediately bombard you with a million questions like a machine-gun. He needs to also realize that God’s truth is not based upon our emotions. His truth is truth, regardless of how it makes us feel.

He is obviously quite young to be ordained as a minister. Guess it kind of says something about the wisdom of some groups, huh? I am a Bible College Graduate myself, and in my 50th year of life right now. To top it off I am a Leukemia survivor, so I know what it is to be humbled by God, and I know what a true miracle is. I was washed out in the ocean at 10 yrs. old, lived through a house fire not much longer after that, I have attempted suicide, survived the most aggressive form of Leukemia having lost half a lung to a fungus that kills 80% of patients, then in December of last year I had pneumonia so bad that my good lung collapsed, and my health is now deteriorating as I have COPD and on oxygen. However, through it all I have matured spiritually enough to know that it’s life’s experience that matures us; that teaches us God’s lessons. I don’t say that to toot my own horn, but as a reflection on God’s wonderful grace and mercy, and the perspective that suffering teaches us some good things in life. An 18 year old is not likely to have learned these kinds of lessons, which I believe to be vital to effective shepherding.

Sorry to ramble on so about it, but it’s just amazing to me. If you get far enough you might encourage him to study Church history objectively. One famous convert once said, “To study history is to cease being Protestant.”

Anyway, I wish you God’s blessings as you face this challenge. And again, welcome. 👍

P.S. When you say “his conversion experience” do you mean he was Catholic and left, or just conversion to the Christian faith in general?
 
aithorette said:
Hello!

I’ve been a Catholic for a year and a half. My nephew Koty has gotten involved in a wildly emotional Protestant church - with an attendance of many young people. Koty is 18. He is posting all kinds of stuff on Facebook about how Santa Claus is an idol, saying that people in organized religion are robots – you probably catch my drift.

I’m going to see Koty at our big family get-together for Christmas, and I’m not sure how to address his “conversion” experience. This church has a Bible College (I think that anyone can attend and it only lasts a few months, etc.) Koty has also been ordained a minster in this church. I think he has been brainwashed – all zeal and no common sense. He came from a turbulent, unstable family situation.

How do I talk to him when I see him? I feel like telling him that I’m going be leaving cookies and milk out for Santa on Christmas Eve. LOL That church is teaching my nephew some weird stuff.

Advice requested! Help!

Thanks!
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It sounds like your nephew is involved with a cult. There are different degrees of ‘fundamentalist’, and it sounds like he’s involved in an extreme one. From what you are writing here he might need counseling. Extreme fanatical religious groups such as what you describe prey on people like this. He definately should NOT be in a pulpit of any sort. I would not provoke him with jokes, ridicule only drives him deeper into the cult. You might be better off talking about things personal, helping him find some answers. The problem is, people like this are looking for answers, and looking into things spiritual is definately a step in the right direction…but what kind of ‘spirit’ it is feeding is the problem. He will be burned…and hopefully he will not turn his back on ALL religion as a result. I have seen that.
Again, DO NOT ridicule him. Just get across to him these two principles about his new found religion:
  1. Is your religion based on what you are ‘for’, or what you are ‘against’?
  2. Has your religion made your world bigger, or smaller?
    He’ll give you a pat answer, but I can guarentee those questions will remain with him,
    I know it did me.
 
Great answers above. I don’t have a lot to add.
A Christmas family gathering is probably not the best place to get into a big theological discussion, but it certainly could be a place to begin an ongoing dialogue that can be followed up on in later meetings, e-mails etc.

As he is relatively new in his church and i’m sure quite emotional about it, it may very well come up.
Don’t shy away from it, unless you find yourself becoming too emotional (angry) yourself. Pray ahead of time for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Let him take the lead and you can respond to his views and or attacks by offering an alternative and biblically based view. Don’t argue which is right, simply offer that there is more than one viewpoint.
If he brings up misinformation about the catholic church (highly likely) simply explain where his information is incorrect and offer to provide him with correct source info (from actual magisterial documents).
As Genesius says above, kill him with kindness". Charity, clear answers, not getting drawn into an argument and demonstrating a peaceful confident calm and conviction will go a long way toward helping your nephew.

One other thing, there is likely to be a lot of “non-biblical” stuff (like Santa Claus). I’d stay away from too much argumentation on this. You might mention the connection to St Nickolaus and then agree that there is much distortion…etc…
Where the two of you agree on things, say so…In fact look for points of agreement. It will help undercut his view of others as “robots”.

Above all, while keeping it civil and loving, offer to continue the conversation at a more appropriate time and place where you and he can really delve into and seek truth together…As an “ordained minister”, he should jump at the chance. Just don’t do it on facebook. 😃

Peace
James
 
Wow! The responses that I got are remarkably helpful!!! Thank you all. I will be answering you individually a little later when I have some time.

Can anyone recommend a church history book that an 18-year-old fundamentalist might find helpful?

Thanks again, everyone.
 
aithorette said:
Wow! The responses that I got are remarkably helpful!!! Thank you all. I will be answering you individually a little later when I have some time.

Can anyone recommend a church history book that an 18-year-old fundamentalist might find helpful?

Thanks again, everyone.
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You are welcome. I don’t have a book recommendation but look forward to what others offer.
I’d be careful about offering him church history books right away. Coming from his current position he’d likely not accept anything “catholic” anyway. He’d just say it’s what the “pope” wants you to think, but it’s not true.

The first things that will likely need to be addressed are his views, and mis-views of Church teaching and the bible. Only after he begins to see that what he has been taught about catholicism is badly flawed will he be receptive to reading church history from a truly catholic standpoint.
Of course I could be wrong here. This is just my assimption based on past experience and on what you have described thus far.

Peace
James
 
Catholic Answers has a Catholic Answers to Fundamentalist Questions. This may help as you are a fairly new convert and he is fairly new and zealous that you and him not get into it. I think the best answer is to focus on what you can agree on over the Holidays - that it is the birth of our Lord, Christ who died for our sins. Then give him the book and tell him after the holidays would be a better time to revisit the conversation. No one wants unpleasantness during the holidays.
 
aithorette said:
Can anyone recommend a church history book that an 18-year-old fundamentalist might find helpful?
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Eusebius. But he’s one of those hellenized church father types. Hate to sound cynical, but this kid doesn’t sound like he’d bother to read anything you give him. Give it to yourself as a Christmas gift and read it cover to cover.

Also, I don’t think arguing with him is the way to go. People like that typically have the attitude that whatever comes out of the mouth of a nonmember is automatically suspicious. Something I have found a little more effective is to brush up on this organization’s teachings and master the usual Catholic responses and work them into everyday conversations.

Here’s what I mean: Did you notice I called his religion an organization? That was meant to be a subtle slam in reference to his remark about organized religion. Stuff like that.

If you are quick on you feet, you may be able to get him to say “But it’s not an organization!”, and then you can bring down the axe and say, “Well then it’s not the Church that Christ founded, is it? Because Christ’s Church had a hierarchy with bishops, elders, and deacons, and at least according to 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus, they had real authority in themselves - it was nothing like your group.”

And if he says, “But those bishops, elders, and deacons only enforced the Bible as the sole authority”, then ask him what Bishop Timothy did between 1 and 2 Timothy. If he says that scripture is God-breathed and the sole authority yada yada, then remind him that the verse he has in mind is from 2 Timothy. Gotcha!

Finally, if he creates a family uproar over Santa Claus the bloodthirsty pagan god of children and presents (and Coca-Cola), then say this: “I have nine words for you: Two Kings Five Or Get Out Of My House.”
 
I might also add, let him know you are praying for him in general, and ask for his prayers. This can create a spiritual bond of trust between the two of you. I often do this with my friend’s rabid anti-Catholic mother. One time I told her that I immediately start praying when I hear of a situation where one needs prayer. For some reason it pleasantly shocked her, like a Catholic couldn’t possibly do something like that! 👍

It’s also appropriate because as you know he IS our brother in Christ. He is obviously seeking God’s face and truth, however misguided. 👍
 
aithorette said:
Hello!

I’ve been a Catholic for a year and a half. My nephew Koty has gotten involved in a wildly emotional Protestant church - with an attendance of many young people. Koty is 18. He is posting all kinds of stuff on Facebook about how Santa Claus is an idol, saying that people in organized religion are robots – you probably catch my drift.

I’m going to see Koty at our big family get-together for Christmas, and I’m not sure how to address his “conversion” experience. This church has a Bible College (I think that anyone can attend and it only lasts a few months, etc.) Koty has also been ordained a minster in this church. I think he has been brainwashed – all zeal and no common sense. He came from a turbulent, unstable family situation.

How do I talk to him when I see him? I feel like telling him that I’m going be leaving cookies and milk out for Santa on Christmas Eve. LOL That church is teaching my nephew some weird stuff.

Advice requested! Help!

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You COULD just ask him how he is doing and be friendly and not say anything about his new beliefs…
It is an option not mentioned. Or you could possibly get into an argument about religion at a family get together…
Just my opinion as always.
 
Rightlydivide said:
You COULD just ask him how he is doing and be friendly and not say anything about his new beliefs…
It is an option not mentioned. Or you could possibly get into an argument about religion at a family get together…
Just my opinion as always.
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Thank you for that wonderful response, Rightlydivide. Of course, you are correct. 👍
 
Apollos said:
see itthing.com/the-history-of-santa-claus
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Well…actually, there are more than one St. Nicholas’s in Church history. The one depicted in the article is probably the one that became corrupted into the modern jolly Santa. Also, there is another inconsistency in the article. Odin was actually a Scandinavian god…Norweigan to be exact. This is where the Vikings emerged from originally, and those gods were eventually adopted by the Germanic tribes.

So all in all, I would question some of the resources of that article. Sounds suspiciously like some of the programs about religion attempted by the History and Discovery channels where they get their facts all mixed up. :rolleyes:

Also, I would question whether Santa Claus is an “idol”. I guess that depends upon the individual, and since we can’t judge another’s heart we don’t know who is actually “worshiping” Santa Claus and who is just viewing him as a harmless fun fictional character. 😉
 
Genesius said:
…Also, I would question whether Santa Claus is an “idol”. I guess that depends upon the individual, and since we can’t judge another’s heart we don’t know who is actually “worshiping” Santa Claus and who is just viewing him as a harmless fun fictional character. 😉
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To the unclean, everything is unclean. Get me?
 
Apollos said:
To the unclean, everything is unclean. Get me?
Click to expand...
If by that you mean that someone who views the world in a negative decrepid sense only can only see everything as unclean, as opposed to one who recognizes that all of God’s creation is good, and sees the good potential in things in spite of the unclean, then yes, I got you. 👍

Kind of like recognizing that a fundamentalist can have something positive to say and seeing the good potential in that fundamentalist because of his charitable statement…😃
 
aithorette said:
Hello!

I’ve been a Catholic for a year and a half. My nephew Koty has gotten involved in a wildly emotional Protestant church - with an attendance of many young people. Koty is 18. He is posting all kinds of stuff on Facebook about how Santa Claus is an idol, saying that people in organized religion are robots – you probably catch my drift.

I’m going to see Koty at our big family get-together for Christmas, and I’m not sure how to address his “conversion” experience. This church has a Bible College (I think that anyone can attend and it only lasts a few months, etc.) Koty has also been ordained a minster in this church. I think he has been brainwashed – all zeal and no common sense. He came from a turbulent, unstable family situation.

How do I talk to him when I see him? I feel like telling him that I’m going be leaving cookies and milk out for Santa on Christmas Eve. LOL That church is teaching my nephew some weird stuff.

Advice requested! Help!

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I’m 18 myself, but im an Atheist-Catholic Convert so i can’t relate entirely to your nephew, but i thought i should throw in my opinion due to being the same age 😉

Fundamentalists are notoriously anti-Catholic, so be prepared to question after question after question about our Faith, and be prepared for the Big ones, “Mary” “Intercessions of Saints” “the Pope” “The Real Presence” and “Peter as the Rock”.

Approach these questions with humility and charity, and be respectful, even though you may feel like chewing him up, but remember charity, humility and respect his opinions.

Plus i personally don’t like the commercial Father Christmas, St. Nicholas sure, but the Father Christmas on the Coca-cola advert that magically comes down the chumney when everyone is asleep to deliver presents to Children, I think it takes some of the message from Christmas away, but that is only personal opinion.
 
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