Fundamentalist Pastor fired in Scandal

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Newsy said:
You can go to another parish, without losing your salvation or the Eucharist.🤷 I’m just saying…
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Still the same Bishop. And no, technically you have to get permission to do so.

-Chris
 
cmforte said:
In Catholicism, a priest is forced upon the laity by a Bishop with little or no (name removed by moderator)ut from them. Say the parishioners at St. so-and-so Archdiocese knew that an incoming priest was a convicted pedophile and so they told the Bishop they didn’t want him? The Bishop doesn’t have to listen to them, and, historically, doesn’t.

In “independent” churches, when that happens, the “parishioners” usually just up and go to another church, with no feeling of losing salvation, guilt or disenfranchisement. You can’t in Catholicism.

-Chris
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CM.
First, this thread is not about the clergy abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. This thread is about an ongoing history of abuse from ONE fundamentalist college in Indiana. That’s why its in the NCR forum. I want our Protestant brethren to chime in on this because this affects how people view PROTESTANTS, not necessariy Catholics.
Second, your view of how these IFB churches work is not accurate. Many HAVE that fear of losing salvation and disenfranchisement. For the victims of abuse its even worse. They feel they have nowhere to turn because all the people in the circle they live in prioritize the MAN over whatever complaint the victim has.
 
cmforte said:
This sounds like rhetoric. There are many other ways to alert another parish or dioces that a possible incoming priest was involved in a sex scandal than just through “computer networking”. We had ways to communicate before computers!! Was there no life before the internet?
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I give no rhetoric. I was answering your question. If you did not really mean it, or want an answer, then it was by definition, a rhetorical question.
 
There is no central clearing house for independent clergy. I knew of one who was defrocked by his church for having sex with female church members. He then started another “church” which consisted of 35 women and one man. While I was president of council, his son was engaged to a relative of one of our church families. For some reason, they wanted to use our sanctuary for their ceremony. My memory may be faulty, but it seems that they had an eye on inheritance from their grandparents, who are members. We have a simple rule, if you use our sanctuary, we request that you use sacred music (I once attended a wedding where the couple used “Afternoon Delight”). The groom said to us, “What are you going to do if we don’t?” The answer was very simple, we weren’t going to allow them to use the sanctuary. A word to the grandparents was all it took. They married in the sanctuary and we haven’t seen them since. Good riddance. May God have mercy on their souls.
 
JustaServant said:
First, this thread is not about the clergy abuse scandals in the Catholic Church.
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Unfortunately, the attacks on the Catholic Church and the priesthood will never cease in this world.
Second, your view of how these IFB churches work is not accurate. Many HAVE that fear of losing salvation and disenfranchisement. For the victims of abuse its even worse. They feel they have nowhere to turn because all the people in the circle they live in prioritize the MAN over whatever complaint the victim has.
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I looked up this Church and found it to be an independent, KVJ-only, Baptist. While I think it is exceptional for salvation to be tied to a church among Baptist, this particular church might well be such a place, at least based on my experience as a Baptist.
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
There is no central clearing house for independent clergy.
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And that is how predators easily infiltrate.
When I pastored years ago I made the suggestion that people the church hires to work with children have a criminal background check.
They looked at me like I had two heads.
 
pnewton said:
I looked up this Church and found it to be an independent, KVJ-only, Baptist. While I think it is exceptional for salvation to be tied to a church among Baptist, this particular church might well be such a place, at least based on my experience as a Baptist.
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Just because they teach OSAS doesn’t mean people believe it, especially the victims. To walk away is to walk away from Christ.
When I became Catholic, these same people who taught OSAS suddnely questioned my salvation.
 
JustaServant said:
Just because they teach OSAS doesn’t mean people believe it, especially the victims. To walk away is to walk away from Christ.
When I became Catholic, these same people who taught OSAS suddnely questioned my salvation.
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Funny how that works, isn’t it? Not all Baptist adhere to OSAS, but it seems most do. All the independent, ultra fundamentalist ones I knew did though.
 
JustaServant said:
CM.
First, this thread is not about the clergy abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. This thread is about an ongoing history of abuse from ONE fundamentalist college in Indiana. That’s why its in the NCR forum. I want our Protestant brethren to chime in on this because this affects how people view PROTESTANTS, not necessariy Catholics.
Second, your view of how these IFB churches work is not accurate. Many HAVE that fear of losing salvation and disenfranchisement. For the victims of abuse its even worse. They feel they have nowhere to turn because all the people in the circle they live in prioritize the MAN over whatever complaint the victim has.
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Also so you know the legal age of consent is 16 in my state of Indiana. The girl was 17.
 
JillianRose said:
Also so you know the legal age of consent is 16 in my state of Indiana. The girl was 17.
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There are conflicting stories on this, probably having to do with the date of the cellphone picture, that this started when the child was 16 (that much is admitted(.
Besides which, he took her across state lines for sex, that is why the FBI is involved. Different states have different laws for “consent”

I also highly doubt any parent would dismiss a 54 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl with the answer, “well, she’s of legal consent.” What he did is called child molestation, period.

Jeri Massi has published a more comprehensive list of abuse from HAC and 1stBCH on her website:
jeriwho.net/lillypad2/?p=11811
 
JillianRose said:
Also so you know the legal age of consent is 16 in my state of Indiana. The girl was 17.
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Looked this up Jillian,
Apparently a minor in Indiana is under 21. An adult is over 18. A Juvenile is under 18. Age of consent is 16. So, if the girl had been around the block and seduced half the basketball team, it does not justify one iota what he did. Not you justifying, but the administrators of HAC.
He was the PASTOR, Chancellor, Administrator, and old enough to be her grandfather… He was “counseling” her and I believe he knew exactly what he was doing and knew exactly what the “age of consent” was in Indiana as well as in neighboring states.
“Underage” and “age of consent” are two different things.
 
JustaServant said:
Looked this up Jillian,
Apparently a minor in Indiana is under 21. An adult is over 18. A Juvenile is under 18. Age of consent is 16. So, if the girl had been around the block and seduced half the basketball team, it does not justify one iota what he did. Not you justifying, but the administrators of HAC.
He was the PASTOR, Chancellor, Administrator, and old enough to be her grandfather… He was “counseling” her and I believe he knew exactly what he was doing and knew exactly what the “age of consent” was in Indiana as well as in neighboring states.
“Underage” and “age of consent” are two different things.
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I was just telling you how messed up Indiana was. The church handled it right. We need to stop putting Pastors and Priests, ect on pedestals and take more precautions. We need more Women ministering to Women. They can do that without taking on a pastoral position in the Church. VIRTUS training of the Catholic Church is a joke. You watch a video and they act like that mean you are officially not a predator. There needs to be YEARLY background checks and other precautions. I don’t know about other churches I just know how my Church is run.
 
JillianRose said:
I was just telling you how messed up Indiana was. The church handled it right. We need to stop putting Pastors and Priests, ect on pedestals and take more precautions. We need more Women ministering to Women. They can do that without taking on a pastoral position in the Church. VIRTUS training of the Catholic Church is a joke. You watch a video and they act like that mean you are officially not a predator. There needs to be YEARLY background checks and other precautions. I don’t know about other churches I just know how my Church is run.
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Yeah, that sent my head spinning. A minor in Indiana is under 21. An adult is over 18. A Juvenile is under 18. Age of consent is 16.:confused:
Obviously I’m not the only one confused at that. 🤷
In many churches in which the leadership have thier heads on straight, the pastor’s wife consels the girls or women. If the pastor does there is always a woman (hopefully the wife) or another witness there too for legal protection.
Schaap was “counseling” a teen-aged girl, who reportedly was a victim of molestation before.
That’s actually typical of these radical IFB churches.
 
I think it is sick that they have gone into blame the victim mode.:tsktsk:
 
maltmom said:
I think it is sick that they have gone into blame the victim mode.:tsktsk:
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Oh it gets even worse.
Some are starting to blame the wife.
I guess Jack wasn’t uh…completely satisfied.
So naturally he starts a romance with a teeny-bopper.

I am soooooo grateful to God I abandoned this crazy movement called fundamentalism. When I think of the damage that ***could ***have been done to my family years ago, I could kick myself in the behind.
 
manualman said:
I’d amend that to all HUMANS have their set of scandals. The reality of the situation is that sexual predators are rampant in our society. This is why clergy, coaches, teachers, counselors and even family members use their positions of authority to coerce sex when they can force an opportunity.

The media keeps playing this story as isolated individual events, but has so far refused to face up to the fact that something in our CULTURE is producing this tsunami of predators. Perhaps because they don’t want to face up to the reality that disconnecting sex from marriage and procreation has opened a total Pandora’s box the like of which western civilization hasn’t seen on this scale in a long time (and has forgotten how to deal with).
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Someday the society at large will realize that what Catholics have been saying all along is the Truth and hopefully at that time many of the distanced and fallen people will come running for the Sacraments and to receive Christ in Holy Communion as He calls ALL His children to do.
 
SaintPatrick333 said:
Someday the society at large will realize that what Catholics have been saying all along is the Truth and hopefully at that time many of the distanced and fallen people will come running for the Sacraments and to receive Christ in Holy Communion as He calls ALL His children to do.
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Amen.
The one thing I remember as a fundamentalist was an emptyness I could not admit to anyone around me. Only coming back to the Catholic Church and recieving the Eucharist was that emptyness filled.
When you remove the Eucharist from a person’s life they will forever search for something to replace it.
 
Apparently there are statistics which suggest that people involved with various non Catholic denoms are involved in just as many scandals of all varieties as are Catholics…sadly for all varieties of Christians. 😊
 
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