Fundamentalists and the 5 Senses

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“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”- Mark 7:7

“And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” -Mark 7:9

“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” -Mark 7:13

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” -Colossians 2:8

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9.

“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 2:21.

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9.

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” John 3:7,8

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” -2nd Corinthians 5:17

1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ…”

John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

004:005 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us…” :bible1:
I congratulate you sir on having an excellent concordance. However, it is disingenuous of you to cherry pick verses to try and bend the scriptures to fit your dogma. But of course that is one of the Protestants most infamous “traditions of man”. This type of Bible reading reminds me very much of the eunuch who was reading the scriptures when Philip asked him “do you know what you are reading?” The eunuch replied" How can I know unless someone teach me?"
Protestantism is full of traditions of men but most are blind to it. From the style of biblical interpretation to the “order of service” to the “altar call”. The altar call by the way is a distinctly American Protestant tradition. It was started in the early 19th century in New England by an evangelist named Charles Finney. Now this tradition is beginning to change and many Protestants are beginning to drop the altar call from their services. There they go again changing their traditions of men.
I would urge you to learn to read the Bible “in context” and that often means reading chapters or sometimes books instead of just verses. Then you can learn the true “sense” of the gospel. And don’t forget that we live in a physical world. We should always worship our God with our whole being.
Peace be with you my brother.
 
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”- Mark 7:7
These are the Traditions of Jesus. Also, for you to deny that you donnot have traditions is hypoctical.
“And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” -Mark 7:9
We accept the commadments of God and express them through the Traditions begun by Christ.
“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” -Mark 7:13
No traditon in the Catholic Church contradicts God’s commandment.
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” -Colossians 2:8
All are traditions that are taken and fashioned by Christ.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.
I fully agree. The difference is how we interpret this passage.
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9.
This is one of the Traditions of the Catholic Church.
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 2:21.
Every day, man, everyday.
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9.
So true. The difference is in how we do it, you and I.
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” John 3:7,8
I was born again when I was baptised.
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” -2nd Corinthians 5:17
A constant mission of every devout Catholic.
1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ…”
I receive the Blood of Christ nearly every day at mass. Do you?
John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
AMEN!
Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
AMEN!
004:005 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
I don’t think that your faith and my faith are any stronger or weaker. I have consistant faith.
Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us…” :bible1:
Absolutely. Our works do not save us. Only Christ’s sacrifice.

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Read John chapter 6… Jesus didn’t try calling those guys back when they ditched him after the “bread of life” discourse; I don’t know if it would work any better for you or me. 😉
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
 
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that** there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god**. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
I have never heard this. Could you provide some documentation to back it up?

If this is true, how do you reconcile it with the NT Scriptures in which people around Jesus say, How can he give us his flesh and blood to eat? They seemed surprised and off-put by it, rather than saying, this is just like the pagans are doing.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
Their reason for leaving was because “this was a hard saying”. Not because ir was just more of the same old stuff.
Peace be with you
 
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
I too will have to ask you to substantiate this, because I have never heard or read anything like this before, so thank you in advance for providing some source material for your assertions.

I don’t think this is accurate for two reasons. The first is, as best I understand it, the followers were put off because they were Jewish, and drinking blood was absolutely UNFATHOMABLE to a Jew (still is actually). This statement was in direct contradiction to the Law. How could the Messiah be telling them to drink blood ?!?!?!?!

As far as the pagan religions…which ones ? I (again) have never heard of this. Without some accurate, academic, primary source documentation I will have to reject this assertion flat out. I do know that many of the pagans in Rome accused the early Christians of cannibalism because of their celebration of the Eucharist. This tells me that this was NOT “more of the same” and neither Scripture nor secular history supports this.
 
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
jewish people had an abhorence to blood. so jesus’ speech must have seemed as horrible to them as if someone here advocated pornography as a way to god.

jesus, of course, could have corrected his disciples. in fact, when you consider what a radical statement he was making for his culture, you can’t help but wonder how he couldn’t have explained the symbology. yet, he didn’t. that in itself tells you that something very profound was occuring.

i don’t doubt that there were pagans who had some sort of rituals that were similar to certain christian beliefs. i know that some pagans believed in a god that rose from the dead. this sort of foreshadowing of christianity probably assisted the pagans in accepting christ. i see nothing wrong with god using such means to bring people closer to him. but the disciples did not leave because he was teaching pagan rituals. they left because jesus had said something that was abhorrent to their faith.
 
jewish people had an abhorence to blood. so jesus’ speech must have seemed as horrible to them as if someone here advocated pornography as a way to god.

jesus, of course, could have corrected his disciples. in fact, when you consider what a radical statement he was making for his culture, you can’t help but wonder how he couldn’t have explained the symbology. yet, he didn’t. that in itself tells you that something very profound was occuring.

i don’t doubt that there were pagans who had some sort of rituals that were similar to certain christian beliefs. i know that some pagans believed in a god that rose from the dead. this sort of foreshadowing of christianity probably assisted the pagans in accepting christ. i see nothing wrong with god using such means to bring people closer to him. but the disciples did not leave because he was teaching pagan rituals. they left because jesus had said something that was abhorrent to their faith.
I read this in the book “The Apples of Appolo, Pagan and Christian Mysteries of the Eucharist”.
 
I read this in the book “The Apples of Appolo, Pagan and Christian Mysteries of the Eucharist”.
Thank you for providing your source. Much appreciated, but do you have any primary sources or anything else to corroborate this ?

I don’t have enough knowledge in paganism to refute this claim, but I will say that I am ALWAYS skeptical of this sort of information. I’ll work on validating this.

Just because someone writes something doesn’t make it true, but I will admit that just because I doubt something, that doesn’t make it false either.
 
do you realize that at the time that Jesus was teach about the Lord,s Supper that there were pagan religions that were claiming that they were eating and drinking the real flesh and blood of their god. This is why those guys left following Jesus. they thought it was just more of the same old stuff. Remenber they were looking for something new, a new leader, a messiah.
Jesus was addressing only Jews.

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I read this in the book “The Apples of Appolo, Pagan and Christian Mysteries of the Eucharist”.
(Caveat: I have not read this book in its entirety) Based on the excerpts from the book on the following page csp.org/chrestomathy/apples_apollo.html it seems that the thrust of this book is to show that everyone involved in religious ritual of any sort, including Christian ones, around the Mediterranean and elsewhere was eating fly agaric, a psychoactive mushroom, and that Jesus was basically presenting Himself as the ultimate 'shroom in the Eucharist. Not sure I buy that premise (note that I do not disagree with seeing Christianity as one of the mystery religions of the time, I just doubt the hallucenogenic drug focus that appears to be the main theme of the book). The book seems somewhat similar to a book from the 70s, “The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross: A Study of the Nature and Origins of Christianity within the Fertility Cults of the Ancient Near East,” by John Marcus Allegro that portrayed Jesus as the personification of this hallucenogenic mushroom.

amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340128755/freecomputersoft/

The wikipedia entry for theophagy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophagy lists Frazer’s “Golden Bough” as a primary source for the widespread practice of this sort of ritual, but unless I am very mistaken, The Golden Bough and many other books contemporary to it have not stood up to further and more recent scholarship. I have read Walter Burkert’s “Greek Religion” and don’t recall any mention of human sacrifice in the Eleusian mysteries or of the Greeks believing they were practicing literal theophagy in the way that the Catholic Church teaches it. I suppose it’s possible, but the concept of literally sacrificing and consuming one’s God is not something that seems a common theme in what I have read.

In searching around a bit, it seems that other pages mentioning a pagan theophagy (literally, “god-eating”) are comparing it to the Tauroctony in Mithraism. Here’s a link to a page on Mithraism from someone whose scholarship I personally trust, who disagrees with that (and note that he is a Neopagan who is disagreeing that Christianity borrowed from Mithraism, and says, in fact, that any borrowing was likely the other way around): ceisiwrserith.com/mith/whatmithisnt.htm

"Mithraism had a ritual meal. This is true. Mithraic temples were set up for this very purpose, and we are told by both Tertullian and Justin Martyr that Mithraists had ritual meals of bread and wine (or bread and water) (Clauss, pp. 108 - 109). As Clauss writes, however, “In the case of these analogies, there can be no question of imitation in either direction. The offering of bread and wine is known in virtually all ancient cultures, and the meal as a means of binding the faithful together and uniting them to the deity was a feature common to many religions” (p. 109).

In some lists, such as that given by Acharya S., this meal is referred to as a “Eucharist,” or “Lord’s Supper.” This choice of words is clearly meant to assert a connection with Christianity simply by applying similar words. Those words are, however, highly inappropriate, since they possess meanings that we don’t find in Mithraism. “Eucharist” comes from a Greek word meaning, “grateful, thankful.” There is no evidence of such an attitude in the Mithraic ritual meal. Its modern meaning implies some sort of presence of a deity in the food and drink consumed; again there is no evidence of this in Mithraism. In fact, since the meal of Mithras and Sol, which is surely the prototype of the Mithraic cult meal, has as its main element the meat of the bull, the cult meal could not have had the meaning of eating the god. “Lord’s Supper” is equally loaded, since it implies a similarity with the Last Supper of Christianity. But the first supper eaten after an ascension which did not involve death is a very different thing from a last supper eaten before death."

These may or may not be the only groups upon which the assertion about pagan theophagy is based.
 
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