Fundraiser at what expense? Really, a rodeo?

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athansor said:
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It’s the treatment of the calves that always caused me the biggest problem. Even back when I was participating, I found the calf roping event was hard to watch. The calf is roped around the neck by a rider on horseback, then the horse stops and the calf is jerked down. The rider dismounts and picks the calf up and throws it back to the ground (the calf has to struggle back to it’s feet before the rider gets there so it can be thrown down again). Then the calf’s legs are tied and the rider waits for a number of seconds to make sure it can’t get loose. The calf then is released and is allowed to stagger off. Perhaps it’s because of the fact that they are so young (it’s kind of like watching kittens get kicked) or perhaps because you know that, unlike the bulls, they aren’t valuable to the stock contractor and will likely be gone pretty soon, but to me it was the event that first made me question rodeo. Calf roping is an event where the animal suffering is very real and in your face, and it is hard to find the entertainment value in it for me.
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Do you know if there are any rodeos that now omit this? My daughter says that we don’t think it is wrong to hurt a calf because we eat cows - but if someone did this to a dog they would be hauled off to jail.
 
4elise said:
Do you know if there are any rodeos that now omit this? My daughter says that we don’t think it is wrong to hurt a calf because we eat cows - but if someone did this to a dog they would be hauled off to jail.
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I dunno-- IMHO calf roping is a tradition. it started out of necessity to brand and doctor calves–they aren’t exactly pets, it is still done for this purpose in many parts of the country, and many times, means life or death to a sick or injured calf. all the calf ropers I know aren’t out to hurt a calf, it’s not the intention. I don’t think a great part of american (and prior, vaqueros and such) heritage should be lost to please animal rights activists… 🤷
 
just_me said:
I dunno-- IMHO calf roping is a tradition. it started out of necessity to brand and doctor calves–they aren’t exactly pets, it is still done for this purpose in many parts of the country, and many times, means life or death to a sick or injured calf. all the calf ropers I know aren’t out to hurt a calf, it’s not the intention. I don’t think a great part of american (and prior, vaqueros and such) heritage should be lost to please animal rights activists… 🤷
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some traditions are good - others - when the light is shone on them - cause many of us to question if they are appropriate GIVEN the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the needless suffering of animals.

the calves that are roped at a rodeo aren’t being done to give medication or brand them - and even if it is done at a rodeo - should this then be done at a fundraiser for a church, given the teaching of the church? is there a contradiction? I think so.
 
4elise said:
some traditions are good - others - when the light is shone on them - cause many of us to question if they are appropriate GIVEN the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the needless suffering of animals.

the calves that are roped at a rodeo aren’t being done to give medication or brand them - and even if it is done at a rodeo - should this then be done at a fundraiser for a church, given the teaching of the church? is there a contradiction? I think so.
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oooooooooooh boy.

I do see your point. kinda. but I can’t agree.
having been around rodeo and ranches, as soon as the loop is taken off the calf, he hops up, shakes off and trots away. I know MANY very good Christian and Catholic ropers who are good, God fearing, church going people who also chose a rewarding way of life.

and no, they are not doctoring at a rodeo or back yard roping but seriously, don’t you think ropers need to learn and practice? think that when they shove a 10X Stetson on their head they can automatically climb on a horse and go rope a sick steer, first try?

I’m thinking it’s a gray area as far as “needless suffering” goes, because the calves don’t suffer any more than a fish that is caught and released or an animal in a live trap that is released or a bird that is tagged and released… suppose all that is cruel too? how about fly tape and mouse traps? wouldn’t they cause “needless suffering” in your opinion?

For the record, I’ve tried to learn to rope on many occasions. unfortunately, I stink at it. if I could throw one better, darn straight I’d be out roping. And I consider myself a pretty darn serious Catholic. 🤷
 
just_me said:
oooooooooooh boy.

I

I’m thinking it’s a gray area as far as “needless suffering” goes, because the calves don’t suffer any more than a fish that is caught and released or an animal in a live trap that is released or a bird that is tagged and released… suppose all that is cruel too? how about fly tape and mouse traps? wouldn’t they cause “needless suffering” in your opinion?

For the record, I’ve tried to learn to rope on many occasions. unfortunately, I stink at it. if I could throw one better, darn straight I’d be out roping. And I consider myself a pretty darn serious Catholic. 🤷
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Well, for the record, personally I’m not ok with catch and release fishing, mouse traps, and the like, For me, there’s a difference between tranquilizing an animal to tag or treat them and then releasing them, and hooking a fish through the mouth, pulling the hook out, and releasing it for fun. So, that’s where the needless comes in.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, it’s been a while since I’ve been involved with rodeo. Most of the ropers I knew didn’t work on a ranch or care for sick calves. They just did rodeo, and roped calves either in practice or competition, but not to doctor them. In fact, the two ranchers I knew well didn’t ride anymore, they did most everything from a 4-wheeler or truck.

Now, you’re not likely to find me out protesting at a rodeo (I’m not much of a protester, but if I was, my protests would likely involve pro-life causes or protesting policies that cause humans to suffer). If I was going to spend some time protesting animal suffering, I’d focus on slaughterhouses, the treatment of veal calves, and factory poultry farms. Rodeo is pretty far down the list of things to get outraged over, but I no longer support them by attending or participating, just as I try to not support the meat or dairy industry.
 
athansor said:
Well, for the record, personally I’m not ok with catch and release fishing, mouse traps, and the like, For me, there’s a difference between tranquilizing an animal to tag or treat them and then releasing them, and hooking a fish through the mouth, pulling the hook out, and releasing it for fun. So, that’s where the needless comes in.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, it’s been a while since I’ve been involved with rodeo. Most of the ropers I knew didn’t work on a ranch or care for sick calves. They just did rodeo, and roped calves either in practice or competition, but not to doctor them. In fact, the two ranchers I knew well didn’t ride anymore, they did most everything from a 4-wheeler or truck.

Now, you’re not likely to find me out protesting at a rodeo (I’m not much of a protester, but if I was, my protests would likely involve pro-life causes or protesting policies that cause humans to suffer). If I was going to spend some time protesting animal suffering, I’d focus on slaughterhouses, the treatment of veal calves, and factory poultry farms. Rodeo is pretty far down the list of things to get outraged over, but I no longer support them by attending or participating, just as I try to not support the meat or dairy industry.
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I completely respect your choice not to attend those events. I just get mad when people push their beliefs on others when they want a sport, tradition, food choice, or other freedom shut down. there are obvious examples (abortion!) where we have a moral obligation to protest-- but the loss of a human life, to me, cannot be compared to temporary discomfort to an animal. (but don’t worry, I support the beef and dairy industry enough for the both of us. 😉 it’s what puts a roof over my family’s heads and allows us to donate what we can to the needy.)

I did most of my cattle work from the back of my little gelding when I was in Montana. we rode 4 wheelers and drove pickups when we could, out of convenience, but there are places you just can’t drive anything, especially when you gather from hundreds of acres of rough country in a day… it’s one of the wonderful things about Montana. 🙂 I just got moved to wisconsin and I haven’t seen too many people use horses. 😦 —but then again that’s probably a good thing to some people on this thread…
 
athansor said:
Well, for the record, personally I’m not ok with catch and release fishing, mouse traps, and the like, For me, there’s a difference between tranquilizing an animal to tag or treat them and then releasing them, and hooking a fish through the mouth, pulling the hook out, and releasing it for fun. So, that’s where the needless comes in.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, it’s been a while since I’ve been involved with rodeo. Most of the ropers I knew didn’t work on a ranch or care for sick calves. They just did rodeo, and roped calves either in practice or competition, but not to doctor them. In fact, the two ranchers I knew well didn’t ride anymore, they did most everything from a 4-wheeler or truck.

Now, you’re not likely to find me out protesting at a rodeo (I’m not much of a protester, but if I was, my protests would likely involve pro-life causes or protesting policies that cause humans to suffer). If I was going to spend some time protesting animal suffering, I’d focus on slaughterhouses, the treatment of veal calves, and factory poultry farms. Rodeo is pretty far down the list of things to get outraged over, but I no longer support them by attending or participating, just as I try to not support the meat or dairy industry.
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needless … and that is the point / Church fundraiser and needless suffering of animals - just don’t go together.
 
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