Funeral yesterday

[andrewstx]

Yesterday I attended the funeral of friends daughter. It was held at a mortuary directly across the street from St Joseph’s church…

We started with a rosary, and then St. Js pastor came across the street. He was wearing a black shirt, no collar. And a purple stole. It seemed he went out of way to “protestantise”.Just in case there was a protestant present.

Is this is how funerals are done now?

 

[Gorgias]

Yesterday I attended the funeral of friends daughter. It was held at a mortuary directly across the street from St Joseph’s church…

We started with a rosary, and then St. Js pastor came across the street. He was wearing a black shirt, no collar. And a purple stole. It seemed he went out of way to “protestantise”.Just in case there was a protestant present.

Is this is how funerals are done now?

It’s possible that what you attended was a “funeral liturgy outside of Mass.” Not a “Protestantized liturgy”, or one that was meant to not offend non-Catholics.

In such a liturgy, there’s the Liturgy of the Word (readings, psalm, Gospel), a homily, intercessions, the Lord’s Prayer, and perhaps the Commendation. The proper vestments for such a liturgy do not include a chasuble.

It’s not about “not offending non-Catholic Christians”… it’s about celebrating a liturgy that isn’t a Mass.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

There could be dozens of reasons this funeral was done this way, not the least of which might be the wishes of the deceased.

It’s not how funerals are done now; it’s how that one was done.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Are you sure it was the priest/pastor and not a deacon?

 

[corsair]

I am always amazed at how the modern funeral Mass is conducted. It seems to vary from Diocese to Diocese.

 

[andrewstx]

I have a lot of Protestant friends and relatives. And I have been to several of their funerals.
They say no prayers for the departed soul.

…and they often condemn a Catholic soul to hell for not being “saved”.

 

[Neofight]

I am always amazed at how the modern funeral Mass is conducted. It seems to vary from Diocese to Diocese.

I was not a Mass…it was a liturgy.

 

[pianistclare]

I am always amazed at how the modern funeral Mass is conducted. It seems to vary from Diocese to Diocese.

No, it does not.
This was NOT a funeral Mass.

A person DIED. People are grieving. And we worry about how the presider is clothed.
Incredible.
The deceased may have rejected the faith, but the family has not. These are pastoral decisions which are made in concert with the family and the priest. I find it comforting that the priest did not turn these people away in their time of sorrow.
May the young woman rest in peace.

 

[Sarcelle]

I have a lot of Protestant friends and relatives. And I have been to several of their funerals.
They say no prayers for the departed soul.

…and they often condemn a Catholic soul to hell for not being “saved”.

I must be lucky. My Protestant family members and friends do not do that.

Seriously, they say that to your face?

 

[andrewstx]

I must be lucky. My Protestant family members and friends do not do that.

Seriously, they say that to your face?

Mostly in their sermons. Many southern preachers use funerals as an reason to proseletyze.

 

[zab]

I am always amazed at how the modern funeral Mass is conducted. It seems to vary from Diocese to Diocese.

What is there to be confused about? Obviously, no funeral Mass was offered.

 

[MorEphrem]

A person DIED. People are grieving. And we worry about how the presider is clothed.
Incredible.

Yes, yes we do. The commendation and accompaniment of the soul by prayers is the greatest consolation we can receive as well as give to the departed. The way the primary mediator of this accompaniment is vested is important since vestments are not simply for those who see them, but do have an efficacy in themselves (cf. vesting prayers, e.g. the alb: Make me white, O Lord, and cleanse my heart; that being made white in the Blood of the Lamb I may deserve an eternal reward). We grieve momentarily for a bodily death; eternal death (i.e. damnation) causes eternal grief, so yes, the most reverent and sincere funerary prayers should be offered by a priest on behalf of the departed.

The OP did not claim it was a mass. However, wearing a tab shirt without a collar and a stole is never an acceptable way for a Catholic priest to dress in normal circumstances.

Is this the way funerals are done now? Sadly, that is the way that funeral was done. In my experience I also know of a diocese that permits seminarians to do the funerary prayers. Unfortunately, in my experience, it seems like this weakening of the primary role of the priest as mediator is a protestantization in itself.

 

[zab]

Yes, yes we do. The commendation and accompaniment of the soul by prayers is the greatest consolation we can receive as well as give to the departed. The way the primary mediator of this accompaniment is vested is

important since vestments are not simply for those who see them, but do have an efficacy in themselves (cf. vesting prayers, e.g. the alb: Make me white, O Lord, and cleanse my heart; that being made white in the Blood of the Lamb I may deserve an eternal reward). We grieve momentarily for a bodily death; eternal death (i.e. damnation) causes eternal grief, so yes, the most reverent and sincere funerary prayers should be offered by a priest on behalf of the departed.

The OP did not claim it was a mass. However, wearing a tab shirt without a collar and a stole is never an acceptable way for a Catholic priest to dress in normal circumstances.

Is this the way funerals are done now? Sadly, that is the way that funeral was done. **In my experience I also know of a diocese that permits seminarians to do the funerary prayers. Unfortunately, in my experience, it seems like this weakening of the primary role of the priest as mediator is a protestantization in itself./**QUOTE]

Should a priest be called to lead the funeral service against the expressed wishes of the deceased? I don’t think that would be done.

 

[MorEphrem]

Should a priest be called to lead the funeral service against the expressed wishes of the deceased? I don’t think that would be done.

What? It is the normative practice in this diocese to send the seminarian in place of the priest for the sake of time. Whether or not it is even permissible is another story (I don’t know how you misconstrued what I wrote to mean I think priests should be sent to lead funeral services in contradiction of someone’s will; clearly I’m not suggesting that).

 

[zab]

What? It is the normative practice in this diocese to send the seminarian in place of the priest for the sake of time. Whether or not it is even permissible is another story (I don’t know how you misconstrued what I wrote to mean I think priests should be sent to lead funeral services in contradiction of someone’s will; clearly I’m not suggesting that).

I meant to ask if you knew the whole situation -are you certain that the diocese sent seminarians in the place of priest for the sake of time, or could there be another reason?

 

[MorEphrem]

I meant to ask if you knew the whole situation -are you certain that the diocese sent seminarians in the place of priest for the sake of time, or could there be another reason?

I am absolutely certain; it’s ubiquitously known in the area and Rome has castigated the chancery before for granting similar “permissions.”

But on topic, Andrew is asking if this is how funerals are done normally within the realm of Catholicism. While I cannot speak to the entire [or even general] practice of the Catholic Church, at least in the Latin Church, nowadays you certainly will not always find (1) a priest (2) in proper choir dress as the officiant at all funerary services, as would be expected in Orthodoxy/the East.

 

[HelenRose]

Mostly in their sermons. Many southern preachers use funerals as an reason to proseletyze.

Whether it is a priest or a protestant minister, that really in an awful thing to do. It is just plain wrong to take advantage of a captive audience at such tragic moment in their lives.

 

[zab]

Yesterday I attended the funeral of friends daughter. It was held at a mortuary directly across the street from St Joseph’s church…

We started with a rosary, and then St. Js pastor came across the street. He was wearing a black shirt, no collar. And a purple stole. It seemed he went out of way to “protestantise”.Just in case there was a protestant present.

Is this is how funerals are done now?

You do not mention whether or not your friend’s daughter was a practicing Catholic. It is not clear to me whether you were attending a Rosary vigil or perhaps something like a celebration of life for an individual who was not allowed to have a Catholic funeral for whatever reason. Praying the rosary for the deceased is common among Catholics either at a vigil service the night before or the day of the funeral about 30 minutes before. While growing up in Missouri over 60 years ago, the Rosary was normally prayed at the mortuary the evening before the funeral and usually led by a priest. It still seemed to be that way in recent years while attending funerals of relatives. I have lived in the Pacific Northwest for the past three decades and have attended the same parish. For at least the last 25 years it has been the practice at our parish to pray the rosary in Church the day of the funeral, 30 minutes before the funeral begins. Now, a member of the Legion of Mary leads the rosary. But I have attended a few rosaries at the funeral home and in those cases it was either the deacon or the priest who led the rosary the night before the funeral. I know that there have been times when our Permanent Deacon led services at the funeral home or the grave yard for deceased individuals at the request of family members who knew that their friend or loved one would not be allowed to have a Catholic funeral for whatever reason. So to answer your question, the way Catholic funerals are done now is the same as they have always been done-in the church with a funeral Mass officiated by a priest dressed in full liturgical garb.

 

[Generic_Name]

Whether it is a priest or a protestant minister, that really in an awful thing to do. It is just plain wrong to take advantage of a captive audience at such tragic moment in their lives.

I can’t think of a more appropriate time to discuss the Four Last Things. Granted, some traditions have more aggressive tactics than others, but isn’t saving souls the main “business” of the Church?

Perhaps not in the Church of Nice.

 

[Generic_Name]

Yes, yes we do. The commendation and accompaniment of the soul by prayers is the greatest consolation we can receive as well as give to the departed. The way the primary mediator of this accompaniment is vested is important since vestments are not simply for those who see them, but do have an efficacy in themselves (cf. vesting prayers, e.g. the alb: Make me white, O Lord, and cleanse my heart; that being made white in the Blood of the Lamb I may deserve an eternal reward). We grieve momentarily for a bodily death; eternal death (i.e. damnation) causes eternal grief, so yes, the most reverent and sincere funerary prayers should be offered by a priest on behalf of the departed.

The OP did not claim it was a mass. However, wearing a tab shirt without a collar and a stole is never an acceptable way for a Catholic priest to dress in normal circumstances.

Is this the way funerals are done now? Sadly, that is the way that funeral was done. In my experience I also know of a diocese that permits seminarians to do the funerary prayers. Unfortunately, in my experience, it seems like this weakening of the primary role of the priest as mediator is a protestantization in itself.

Well put. :tiphat: