Fungus on Dallas host

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There was blessed Eucharist in Dallas that turned red. The bishop in the diocese authorized and investigation. I think the testing was done at local university. Does anyone know much about how the chain of custody of the host works in those cases? It turned out to be a fungus. I thought this bishop handled the situation really well. The host derserved all the respect that a blessed host deserves. But the turning red was a natural phenomena created by a fungus.

Some other cases aren’t really handled so well. Anyone have anymore info about the proper chain of custody in these situations?
 
robertmidwest said:
There was blessed Eucharist in Dallas that turned red. The bishop in the diocese authorized and investigation. I think the testing was done at local university. Does anyone know much about how the chain of custody of the host works in those cases? It turned out to be a fungus. I thought this bishop handled the situation really well. The host derserved all the respect that a blessed host deserves. But the turning red was a natural phenomena created by a fungus.

Some other cases aren’t really handled so well. Anyone have anymore info about the proper chain of custody in these situations?
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Interesting question. Canon law deals with the proper handling of the host. Perhaps a good person to ask would be this scholar:

canonlawmadeeasy.com/
 
chero23 said:
Huh!!! I’m from Dallas and never heard of this.
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It seems odd to me. Normally, the Body and Blood of Christ must always be consumed in its entirety, period.

I would think it *possible *that if the Eucharistic species had to be diluted with water because there was some reason to believe it had inadvertently become too contaminated to be consumed as is normally required (because the red stuff might be poisonous), then the species would not subsist and it would not be the Blessed Sacrament any more. Yes, I’d think you’d want a bishop’s permission to do that. Even then, what remained ought to have been reverently disposed of in a sacrarium after it was rendered unrecognizable, no longer having the appearance of bread.

Still, I suppose it might be permissible afterwards to swab the sacrarium to see what the red color was from, particularly since it would be so important to prevent a repeat. If you know it is a fungus, you can clean the inside of the tabernacle to remove any spores that might remain and perhaps set up a way to keep the interior of the tabernacle dehumidified, but if you don’t know what it is, how do you prevent it from happening again?
 
Um, maybe I’m reading too much into this, but I took the OP as suggesting that the red appearance was at first possibly presumed to be a Eucharistic miracle. If it was initially assumed to be a fungal contamination (as often happens with bread!) I doubt any Bishop would be “investigating” anything, let alone a team of scientists at a university! The OP’s main question concerned a chain of custody, not so much what is to be done with spoiled Hosts. Are my assumptions correct robertmidwest or am I way off into left field here?
 
I found the story.
The Rev. John Echert reported to archdiocese officials that it turned “blood red” after being placed in a cup filled with water. In addition, it did not fully dissolve over several weeks.
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So good reason for investigation.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Um, maybe I’m reading too much into this, but I took the OP as suggesting that the red appearance was at first possibly presumed to be a Eucharistic miracle. If it was initially assumed to be a fungal contamination (as often happens with bread!) I doubt any Bishop would be “investigating” anything, let alone a team of scientists at a university! The OP’s main question concerned a chain of custody, not so much what is to be done with spoiled Hosts. Are my assumptions correct robertmidwest or am I way off into left field here?
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No you are correct.

I am wondering if anyone know of the protocol for handling investigating a miracle. I would think there would be have to an absolute unbroken chain of custody for any portion of the host tested? For respect for the Eucharist and for respect for scientific process.

I mean for example… if there was more than one lab involved one lab couldn’t just stick the host in a Fed Ex box and ship it to another lab could they? Even if there was a tracking number I don’t think that would be acceptable.
 
robertmidwest said:
No you are correct.

I am wondering if anyone know of the protocol for handling investigating a miracle. I would think there would be have to an absolute unbroken chain of custody for any portion of the host tested? For respect for the Eucharist and for respect for scientific process.

I mean for example… if there was more than one lab involved one lab couldn’t just stick the host in a Fed Ex box and ship it to another lab could they? Even if there was a tracking number I don’t think that would be acceptable.
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I did not know that if the Blessed Sacrament is present that there ever IS a scientific process on the Eucharistic species. I would think not. 🤷

If the Blessed Sacrament were to be flown to some remote location, such as to bring to the sick, a pyx or the equivalent would be used and a person would always be with that pyx or the “portable tabernacle.” Unless in a secure tabernacle in a church, chapel, or oratory, someone must be there. The Eucharistic species must always be protected from any kind of profanation.
 
EasterJoy said:
I did not know that if the Blessed Sacrament is present that there ever IS a scientific process on the Eucharistic species. I would think not. 🤷
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I am not quite sure what you mean here. If there is a consecrated host that is normal color one day and red the next there probably several explanations for how that happened. Two of those possibilities are 1) God provided a miracle changing the species from bread to something else and 2) it is the still under the appearance of bread, just moldy now. We can use science to determine if the host still bread or not. To have valid results we would need a scientific process i.e. chain of custody, independent testing, peer review, etc.
EasterJoy said:
The Eucharistic species must always be protected from any kind of profanation.
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I agree. No matter the appearance the host is still the body and blood of Christ and shoude be protected and treated with reverance. I argue that one lab shipping a portion of consecrated host via Fed Ex is disrespectful (at least) and degrades the credibility of the “evidence”. It doesn’t look like the Dallas or Minneapolis cases were handled this way, but take a look a similar case from Buenos Aires. There is “documentation” available in the form a book for sale about this case. While reviewing the material I was shock to see one lab shipped the test sample via Fed Ex to another lab.
 
robertmidwest said:
I am not quite sure what you mean here. If there is a consecrated host that is normal color one day and red the next there probably several explanations for how that happened. Two of those possibilities are 1) God provided a miracle changing the species from bread to something else and 2) it is the still under the appearance of bread, just moldy now. We can use science to determine if the host still bread or not. To have valid results we would need a scientific process i.e. chain of custody, independent testing, peer review, etc.

I agree. No matter the appearance the host is still the body and blood of Christ and shoude be protected and treated with reverance. I argue that one lab shipping a portion of consecrated host via Fed Ex is disrespectful (at least) and degrades the credibility of the “evidence”. It doesn’t look like the Dallas or Minneapolis cases were handled this way, but take a look a similar case from Buenos Aires. There is “documentation” available in the form a book for sale about this case. While reviewing the material I was shock to see one lab shipped the test sample via Fed Ex to another lab.
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No, I mean to say that as long as the Eucharistic species subsist, it is forbidden to conduct experiments or transport for any reasons other than serious pastoral reasons, such as bringing the Eucharist to the homebound, to those who are stranded far from a priest and from the Mass, or from one church or chapel’s tabernacle to that of another for that sort of serious pastoral reasons.

If the vial was a sort of “relic,” something that was not the Eucharist but was for the purposes of science connected physically with the Eucharist, then I would think it would be transported and otherwise treated as another object blessed by use, such as holy water or a chalice. I’m just guessing about that, though. I’ve never read any rules on that.
 
EasterJoy said:
No, I mean to say that as long as the Eucharistic species subsist, it is forbidden to conduct experiments…
If the vial…
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Please reread the articles I linked. Are saying the bishops that authorized labs to analyze the host were breaking canon law?

I never used the word vial in this thead. What case are you talking about?
 
robertmidwest said:
I am not quite sure what you mean here. If there is a consecrated host that is normal color one day and red the next there probably several explanations for how that happened. Two of those possibilities are 1) God provided a miracle changing the species from bread to something else and 2) it is the still under the appearance of bread, just moldy now. We can use science to determine if the host still bread or not. To have valid results we would need a scientific process i.e. chain of custody, independent testing, peer review, etc.

I agree. No matter the appearance the host is still the body and blood of Christ and shoude be protected and treated with reverance. I argue that one lab shipping a portion of consecrated host via Fed Ex is disrespectful (at least) and degrades the credibility of the “evidence”. It doesn’t look like the Dallas or Minneapolis cases were handled this way, but take a look a similar case from Buenos Aires. There is “documentation” available in the form a book for sale about this case. While reviewing the material I was shock to see one lab shipped the test sample via Fed Ex to another lab.
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What book is that? Do you have an excerpt we can read online?
 
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