Funny question: What is a Catholic?

[stayathomemommy]

What i mean is, as adults are we Catholic simply because we were baptized in the Catholic Church or because we were Baptized AND Confirmed, OR because we are ACTIVELY living our faith?

A family member was baptized Catholic but didnt want to get Confirmed and as an adult does not practice any faith. Is she still a Catholic? i dont think she considers herself one.

In reguards to her future marriage does she need to follow Catholic marital law? even if she doesnt know what that is? as family discerning whether we can attend can we concider her as a non-catholic?

thanks for your thoughts.

 

[kib]

My priest once told me that every validly baptized person is Catholic, whether they acknowledge it or not.

However, I have a bad habit of saying people aren’t Catholic if they reject church teachings etc. It’s definitely something I need to change about myself.

 

[Havard]

She’s a Catholic, and she should get married in the Church.

 

[Bob4BVM]

She is Catholic.

Moreover, the whole world is Catholic, most just do not know it yet.
They will find out when they get the Heaven, if by God’s grace.

 

[VivienneJ]

What i mean is, as adults are we Catholic simply because we were baptized in the Catholic Church Yes, baptism is the ‘thing that does it’ making us Catholic (this is why parents have to attend preparation classes, so that they can understand this process) or because we were Baptized AND Confirmed Confirmation is an important sacrament, it marks the time when we accept our own responsibility for the promises made on our behalf at Baptism, not accepting this responsibility does not remove or change what happened at Baptism, OR because we are ACTIVELY living our faith? Actively living our faith is what should proceed from Baptism and Confirmation - that’s where a lot of us fall down, but we are still Catholic.

A family member was baptized Catholic but didnt want to get Confirmed and as an adult does not practice any faith. Is she still a Catholic? She is still a Catholic. i dont think she considers herself one. She could only consider herself no longer to be Catholic if she had formally had her Baptismal record endorsed to show that she has repudiated her Catholic faith. (I seem to think that can be done through a Bishop? I’m sure someone with better knowledge of this process will comment.)

In reguards to her future marriage does she need to follow Catholic marital law? As her Baptism has made her Catholic, yes, she needs to follow Catholic marital law because she is Catholic, even if she does not regard herself as one. even if she doesnt know what that is? As I understand it, the potential seriousness of this is that not following the Catholic marital law gives almost sure grounds for a Decree of Nullity being granted somewhere in the future of this marriage. I’m open to correction here, but if she does not want to get married in the Catholic church, she should still get permission by getting a ‘defect of form’. as family discerning whether we can attend can we concider her as a non-catholic? Again, she is Catholic, no matter what she considers herself and that is how you have to regard her.

thanks for your thoughts.

Hope this helps in the decisions you have to make.

 

[Lutheranteach]

I have the same question: My wife is Catholic but was married to me in a Lutheran Church…never convalidated. She attends mass and fully participates even though she should probably not. Our son goes toa Catholic grade school, but purely for the reason that the public schools are so lacking in discipline and the secular private schools cost $16,000-$18,000 per year for grade school as compared to $3,500 for the local Catholic school at the corner of our street. Our little man, baptized in the Lutheran church, is a second grader this year. I am not really onboard with him taking part in confession and receiving first communion. A) I think they imply a promise that we plan to raise him with solely a Catholic point of view, and I don’t. I want him to explore various Christian faiths and will encourage him to do so. B) I really don’t think 8 year olds have the understanding to take part in those events in the most meaningful of ways. (Protestants usually have first communion and are confirmed at the same time around age 14). C) Does taking part in fist confession and fist communion make our son solely Catholic? If so, I’m not onboard. I fully want him to do all the prep work as it were because I think it is worthwhile and offers some wonderful teachable moments regardless of denomination.

 

[1ke]

What i mean is, as adults are we Catholic simply because we were baptized in the Catholic Church or because we were Baptized AND Confirmed, OR because we are ACTIVELY living our faith?

A Catholic is Catholic by virtue of their baptism. A convert is Catholic by virtue of their Profession of Faith and Confirmation.

A family member was baptized Catholic but didnt want to get Confirmed and as an adult does not practice any faith. Is she still a Catholic? i dont think she considers herself one.

Yes, she is still a Catholic. There is nothing that can make her “not” Catholic. Baptism is an indelible mark on our souls. We are incorporated into the Body of Christ. A person baptized into the Catholic Church is incorporated **fully **into the Body of Christ, (as opposed to those baptized into other Christian denominations, they are not fully incorporated, and are not bound under Catholic law) including being under the authority of Catholic Church law.

In reguards to her future marriage does she need to follow Catholic marital law?

Yes. The only way she would not have to marry according to the laws of the Chuch is if she formally defects from the Church-- this is a process whereby she must write to the bishop, state her reasons, and the bishop will consider whether or not to accept her defection. If he does, then she is no longer bound by Canon Law on marriage-- but she is still a Catholic and bound by all other Catholic canon laws. Of course she is already in serious spiritual jeopardy.

even if she doesnt know what that is?

Ignorance does not dismiss our obligations. Either she is culpable for her lack of knowledge (if she willfully chooses not to know) or her parents and family are culpable for failing to inform her.

as family discerning whether we can attend can we concider her as a non-catholic?

No. You cannot consider her as a non-Catholic.

Unless she formally defects through canon law procedures, she is making an invalid attempt at marriage.

 

[1ke]

I have the same question: My wife is Catholic but was married to me in a Lutheran Church…never convalidated. She attends mass and fully participates even though she should probably not.

You are correct that she should not be participating in the Sacraments until she convalidates your marriage. She could have married you in the Lutheran Church with permission for a mixed marriage and a dispensation from form and this would have fulfilled the Catholic marriage requirements. These are easily obtainable. Encourage her to approach her priest to do the paperwork. She is committing a sacrilege by receviing the Eucharist while in this situation.

Our son goes toa Catholic grade school, but purely for the reason that the public schools are so lacking in discipline and the secular private schools cost $16,000-$18,000 per year for grade school as compared to $3,500 for the local Catholic school at the corner of our street. Our little man, baptized in the Lutheran church, is a second grader this year. I am not really onboard with him taking part in confession and receiving first communion.

He is not a Catholic. He is a Lutheran. Therefore he **cannot **“take part” in Confession or First Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

He would need to be brought into full communion with the Catholic Church. This is a process that would need to be completed with the priest, and the details of how that occurs depends upon whether he is under or over the age of reason (7 to 8 years old). Under 7/8 the parents can make this committment/decision on behalf of the child, over 7/8 and the child makes the committment/decision. They go through RCIA (modified for children) for catechesis (which might not be necessary since your child is receiving religion in a Catholic school) and then make a profession of faith.

A) I think they imply a promise that we plan to raise him with solely a Catholic point of view, and I don’t. I want him to explore various Christian faiths and will encourage him to do so. B) I really don’t think 8 year olds have the understanding to take part in those events in the most meaningful of ways. (Protestants usually have first communion and are confirmed at the same time around age 14). C) Does taking part in fist confession and fist communion make our son solely Catholic? If so, I’m not onboard. I fully want him to do all the prep work as it were because I think it is worthwhile and offers some wonderful teachable moments regardless of denomination.

It doesn’t imply it, it would be an explicit committment. And he cannot “take part” without converting to the Catholic Church. I’m not sure why you would be under the impression that he could. Maybe the people at school are assuming he was baptized Catholic since your wife is Catholic?

Before receiving the Sacraments of Reconciliation or First Holy Communion the children will have to provide their baptismal certificates-- and obviously your child doesn’t have a Catholic baptismal certificate nor any sacramental records showing he’s been brought into the Catholic Church. Maybe the school hasn’t done the paperwork yet, which would certainly have pointed out to them your child isn’t Catholic.

I would hate for him to prepare at the school thinking he will receive and then be disappointed at the last minute that he will not. This is something you need to discuss with the school ASAP!

And since your son is 8, it would be *his *committment to make and he would be committing himself to the Catholic Church.

 

[Lutheranteach]

You are correct that she should not be participating in the Sacraments until she convalidates your marriage. She could have married you in the Lutheran Church with permission for a mixed marriage and a dispensation from form and this would have fulfilled the Catholic marriage requirements. These are easily obtainable. Encourage her to approach her priest to do the paperwork. She is committing a sacrilege by receviing the Eucharist while in this situation.

He is not a Catholic. He is a Lutheran. Therefore he **cannot **“take part” in Confession or First Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

He would need to be brought into full communion with the Catholic Church. This is a process that would need to be completed with the priest, and the details of how that occurs depends upon whether he is under or over the age of reason (7 to 8 years old). Under 7/8 the parents can make this committment/decision on behalf of the child, over 7/8 and the child makes the committment/decision. They go through RCIA (modified for children) for catechesis (which might not be necessary since your child is receiving religion in a Catholic school) and then make a profession of faith.

It doesn’t imply it, it would be an explicit committment. And he cannot “take part” without converting to the Catholic Church. I’m not sure why you would be under the impression that he could. Maybe the people at school are assuming he was baptized Catholic since your wife is Catholic?

Before receiving the Sacraments of Reconciliation or First Holy Communion the children will have to provide their baptismal certificates-- and obviously your child doesn’t have a Catholic baptismal certificate nor any sacramental records showing he’s been brought into the Catholic Church. Maybe the school hasn’t done the paperwork yet, which would certainly have pointed out to them your child isn’t Catholic.

I would hate for him to prepare at the school thinking he will receive and then be disappointed at the last minute that he will not. This is something you need to discuss with the school ASAP!

And since your son is 8, it would be *his *committment to make and he would be committing himself to the Catholic Church.

They have his records and are fully aware of where and when he was baptised and have said nothing about any additional work, education, etc. He has been in Catholic School since 1st grade. Glad I asked this question.

 

[1ke]

They have his records and are fully aware of where and when he was baptised and have said nothing about any additional work, education, etc. He has been in Catholic School since 1st grade. Glad I asked this question.

Wow, either someone at the school seriously dropped the ball, and I mean seriously, or they are somehow assuming or got the impression that by proceeding with sacramental preparation at the school you have decided to seek full communion with the Catholic Church for him (since at the time you began he was under the age of reason, the parents could do this on his behalf)-- a **BIG **assumption to make without an explicit statement from the parents.

Yes, it is a good thing you asked this question.

 

[babochka]

Although that is the typical Lutheran practice, it is not necessarily the same in other Protestant denominations. Many Anglicans practice infant communion, and other protestants have a wide variety of ages at which children are fully initiated into the community.

Elizabeth

 

[Bailey2]

This is what Jpjd attached to a thread I started last week. Thought it was great.

thericatholic.com/opinion/detail.html?sub_id=2632

 

[Irishmom2]

"I would hate for him to prepare at the school thinking he will receive and then be disappointed at the last minute that he will not. This is something you need to discuss with the school ASAP! "

Unless you have been told otherwise by your son’s school, your son would be making his first communion through the parish he would be attending and not through his school so this may not even be something the school is concerned with. You should check into this for sure. All children in Catholic school, whether they are Catholic or not will be instructed about first communion in school. It is just part of their religion class. But, if they are not baptized, and they are not members of a parish, they are not going to make their communion.

 

[1ke]

Unless you have been told otherwise by your son’s school, your son would be making his first communion through the parish he would be attending and not through his school so this may not even be something the school is concerned with.

Around here all the schools are attached to a parish, so they are preparing them for FHC at the parish. It’s one and the same thing.

I know there are some Catholic schools that are not directly attached to/affiliated with a parish, so in that case it would be different and I’m glad you pointed that out.

But, either way, the parents need to speak to the school just to make sure. Also, they need to make sure their son is clear on what will/won’t happen.

 

[Irishmom2]

My priest once told me that every validly baptized person is Catholic, whether they acknowledge it or not.

However, I have a bad habit of saying people aren’t Catholic if they reject church teachings etc. It’s definitely something I need to change about myself.

Yes, anyone baptized Catholic is Catholic whether they even go to mass or not.
But, if they do not go to mass and receive communion, they are not practicing Catholics.

 

[Mintaka]

A Lutheran baptism (if done in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, not with some weird wording) is a Christian baptism. Any Christian baptism is valid. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t need to do anything special to get on the road for the other Catholic sacraments.

If you don’t want the kid to become Catholic, however, you should tell the school.

I will say that I think it’s a mistake to “wait until the child is old enough and let him make his own choices”. You don’t do this with math, I’m pretty sure, even though it might seem more fair to wait until he’s old enough and let him choose whether he prefers long division or Vedic arithmetic methods. You tell him to wear clothes, you teach him English, you make him eat nutritious foods instead of an all-chocolate diet. Yet when it comes to religion, you’re willing to leave him hanging.

When he gets old enough, he will choose for himself. But until then, does he have to run around without any religious language or clothing to call his own? Is he always to remain a guest and never be a native anywhere, until he’s too old to have a childhood religion?

Children like certainty. Adults who won’t settle on one thing or another leave them nervous for life. Pick something and let him stick with it.

 

[Lutheranteach]

A Lutheran baptism (if done in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, not with some weird wording) is a Christian baptism. Any Christian baptism is valid. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t need to do anything special to get on the road for the other Catholic sacraments.

If you don’t want the kid to become Catholic, however, you should tell the school.

I will say that I think it’s a mistake to “wait until the child is old enough and let him make his own choices”. You don’t do this with math, I’m pretty sure, even though it might seem more fair to wait until he’s old enough and let him choose whether he prefers long division or Vedic arithmetic methods. You tell him to wear clothes, you teach him English, you make him eat nutritious foods instead of an all-chocolate diet. Yet when it comes to religion, you’re willing to leave him hanging.

When he gets old enough, he will choose for himself. But until then, does he have to run around without any religious language or clothing to call his own? Is he always to remain a guest and never be a native anywhere, until he’s too old to have a childhood religion?

Children like certainty. Adults who won’t settle on one thing or another leave them nervous for life. Pick something and let him stick with it.

No. we teach him the the overlap of our two faiths and we explain/explore the differences as they come up.

 

[1ke]

A Lutheran baptism (if done in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, not with some weird wording) is a Christian baptism. Any Christian baptism is valid. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t need to do anything special to get on the road for the other Catholic sacraments.

Yes, he would need to “do (something) special.” He would need to be brought into full communion with the Catholic Church.

To become a Catholic he would need to go through RCIA (with catechesis modified for children, sometimes improperly called RCIC), make a profession of faith, and receive the remaining Sacraments of Initiation. This would be done under the guidance of the parish priest/RCIA director. If the child were younger, then the parents could make the decision and bring him into full communion with the Catholic Church by an act of theirs if one or both of them were becoming Catholic (in this case his mother is already a Catholic).

 

[Bob4BVM]

No. we teach him the the overlap of our two faiths and we explain/explore the differences as they come up.

And when he asks why the differences, and which is the Truth ?

 

[Lutheranteach]

And when he asks why the differences, and which is the Truth ?

God’s Lutheran, everyone knows that. I kid, I kid. The truth, much to the horror, of the devouts of either side will have to be something his conscience leads him to. Honestly, I’m not sweating it because I see so many on both sides who don’t even seem all that well educated and versed on the 90% that is shared.