Future "American Catholic Church"

[adventistnomore]

PLEASE SEND THEM A FLOOD OF POLITE E-MAILS, BEGGING THEM TO RETURN TO THE CHURCH. WE NEED THEIR ACTIVISM TO SERVE CHRIST! IF YOU READ THIS, SEND THEM AN E-MAIL RIGHT NOW. HERE’S MINE:

Dear Sir or Madam,

As a candidate to be recieved into the Catholic Church, I love the faithful tradition and Biblically-centered doctrine of the Catholic Church. I pray that the day never comes when the people will demand “their rights” rather than a clarification of God’s will, such as the flows from the Bible, Tradition, and teaching magisterium of the Church. I do not mean to offend you, but your website deeply concerns me. As the Holy Father John Paul II said, the only right we have is to know and obey the truth of God. Please, I beg of you, realize the inestimable treasures of the Catholic Church, and in humility embrace the order established by Christ Himelf, lest, as Korah (Num. 16), you be reproved. I pray, tearfully, that you will never abandon the Church, but will support the present Holy Father as He continues to faithfully guide the Church upon the unshakeable ground of truth.

But if you cannot in the last, then i invite you to join the Protestant world: where democracy rules the day. Each of us must make the decision. I will pray for yours.

Respectfully,
Hugo…

 

[kmktexas]

These guys are a slicker version of the VOF crowd and use a lot of the same arguments. Not only are they advocating the “democratic” election of Bishops, they want to take authority away from pastors as well. Their parish “constitution” document calls on parish coucils to demand “transparency” from thier priests even to the point of revealing personal conversations.

They reference Canon Law. However, I don’t think that they believe that anyone will actually look up the references. At least in regard to the finance accountability, the Canon Law sections they recommend using as amunition actually say the opposite of what they represent them to say.

We have a mini version of this type of thing going on in our parish. The parish council and finance committee wanted to have the decision making authority and have the pastor serve as advisor instead of the other way around. They had been pretty successful with our old pastor but when he was replaced, our new priest wasn’t buying it.

We need to pray for these people but we also need to support our priests and Bishops who are being assailed by these claims. They need courage and our prayers.

 

[Eden]

This is all I need to know about them to completely write them off:

The Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church (ARCC) was founded in 1980 by lay and clerical Catholics in the wake of Vatican condemnations of such theologians as Edward Schillebeeckx, Jacques Pohier, and Hans Küng. The Association seeks to put into practice the statement of the 1971 Synod of Bishops:
While the Church is bound to give witness to justice, she recognizes that anyone who ventures to speak to people about justice must first be just in their eyes. Hence we must undertake an examination of the modes of acting and of the possessions and life-style found within the Church itself. Within the Church, rights must be preserved.

 

[AuntMartha]

Oh, there is one page where they want to have Bishops hold “town meetings”. Can you imagine that? I can just picture obnoxious women, standing up and demanding that they be allowed to become priests. And then some “gay acticvists” whining about wanting to be “married.” And others saying, “We shouldn’t comment on anyone’s behavior at all. That’s judgemental. We should just go along and let each person’s conscience be their guide.” Yeah, like that will work.

 

[nianka]

StBasiltheGreat:

Catholic doctrine ( which has changed over the years) seems for many just a way of feeling superior to others: “I obey the rules, THEY don’t, God loves me, not them.” Pharasaism.

Two of the spiritual works of Mercy are **Instructing the ignorant ** and Admonishing sinners.
Of course, those being admonished forget Psalms 140:5:
“Let the just man strike me: it is a kindness; let him rebuke me: it is oil for the head, which my head will not refuse, but I will always pray under their corrections.”
I doubt many people in these forums consider themselves better than other people. :bigyikes: In fact, I’m willing to bet that they (and I) are harder and more critical of themselves than of others. :banghead:
We have the “right” to correct sinners and the “right” to instruct the ignorant (and the beligerantly stupid).
IMHO :twocents: , the people of the ARCC are merely old hippies desperately trying to relive the glory days of campus sit-ins and wreaking general havoc among the “establishment”. And they’re still at it. They haven’t grown up at all, just grown old.
Pray for them? Sure! Blast their ridiculous club? :tsktsk: Absolutely!
nianka

 

[nianka]

JKirkLVNV:

Actually, the laity at one time DID elect their bishops…even the bishops of Rome.

And do you know why? Because at that time the voters were exquisitely qualified to vote. They were thoroughly grounded in the truth and trained to the nth degree. People weren’t allowed to receive communion unless they proved they knew their religion. People were not just willy-nilly received into the faith. They had to prove themselves! The fact that most Catholics these days don’t know the difference between a mortal and a venial sin, can’t, for example, recite the Corporal Works of Mercy or the Fruits of the Holy Spirit makes it abundantly clear that that they should never be allowed to vote for a bishop.
Just a little more crabbiness from little old crabby me.
nianka

 

[Christus_Rex]

Rand Al'Thor:

I’ve got one “right” and it’s all these people need:

All Catholics have the right to leave the Church and join the Episcopal Church if they don’t like what the Catholic Church teaches.

all right, I’ve got another one:

All Catholics have the right to know that the Church is not a democracy.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Libero]

With your posts in mind, the ARCC does offer an alternatvie (albeit one i do not agree with) to how to boost church attendance figures and the popularity of the church in places such as the US and Europe - a theorem that could be applied to the developed countries of the world that ‘no longer need religion’. There is obviously a problem with the church and the large drop in its attendance figures, so what can be done to ENSURE the future of the American Catholic Church?

 

[byzmelkite]

StBasiltheGreat:

With all the judgement-passing in forums like these, who would want to become a Catholic? I think we better leave to God who is a real Christian & not presume to judge for Him.

Catholic doctrine ( which has changed over the years) seems for many just a way of feeling superior to others: “I obey the rules, THEY don’t, God loves me, not them.” Pharasaism.

As for “Leftists”, as i recall a camel will pass through the eye of the needle more easily than the rich man will enter heaven.

Whern we become more love than law, most of the church’s problems will be over, & people will flock in.

Well, you seem to be suggesting that “leftists” are poor or don’t care about money and non-leftists are rich and greedy (hmmmmm, what about the Kennedy’s and the Kerry’s?). How leftist of you . Actually, the idea “judge not” is one of the most abused and misunderstood teachings of Jesus. Jesus was saying that we are not to condemn, in the sense of passing judgment definitively on which individuals are going to hell and which are not. Jesus did not say we are not to judge behavior and call sin a sin.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Isidore_AK:

I particularly like this portion:

So the laity will elect Bishops, and the bishops will elect the Pope, for a period of ten years…sounds like these people need to make a good confession…

No. The leaders of the group need top be in the comming disiplinary purge. Time to prune the dead branches.

PF

 

[byzmelkite]

Libero:

With your posts in mind, the ARCC does offer an alternatvie (albeit one i do not agree with) to how to boost church attendance figures and the popularity of the church in places such as the US and Europe - a theorem that could be applied to the developed countries of the world that ‘no longer need religion’. There is obviously a problem with the church and the large drop in its attendance figures, so what can be done to ENSURE the future of the American Catholic Church?

I think that we should not be worried about boosting church numbers. Let God worry about that. Our job is to preach and live the truth. Pope Benedict XVI has already said that we are entering a period of time where the Church may get smaller in terms of numbers but more faithful. Massive Church growth is way overrated. I’ll take quality over quantity anyday.

 

[Lisa_N]

Mercy is right! Do you love the idea that anyone can follow their well informed conscious? Let’s see my well informed conscious says to molest children or bop my husband over the head because he left his shorts on the bathroom floor again.

All the emphasis on ‘rights’ is hilarious. Is there a little pride problem in the group?

BTW JKirk you are right, they all seem to be wines of the same basic vintage.

Lisa N

 

[AuntMartha]

Lisa N:

BTW JKirk you are right, they all seem to be wines of the same basic vintage.

Lisa N

The question is why? Why are these old geezers going against the grain? I had always thought older people were less wanting of change. Although that one hippie guy sort of gave it away. Who still wears a ponytail when they are well into their 60’s? Let go of it dude!

 

[Jakub]

I don’t know how much or if it has alot to do with influences on the Church, but have noticed many articles and links with various Episcopalian groups on the Archdiocese newspaper site, does anyone else have these articles/links on their parish/diocese sites ?

james

 

[Lisa_N]

Jakub:

I don’t know how much or if it has alot to do with influences on the Church, but have noticed many articles and links with various Episcopalian groups on the Archdiocese newspaper site, does anyone else have these articles/links on their parish/diocese sites ?

james

Not in our paper but when dissident Catholics come to town they invariably speak at the local Episcopal Cathedral. Just hosted Sr Joan Chittester and I believe James Carroll was here too.

Lisa N

 

[Edwin1961]

byzmelkite:

I think that we should not be worried about boosting church numbers. Let God worry about that. Our job is to preach and live the truth. Pope Benedict XVI has already said that we are entering a period of time where the Church may get smaller in terms of numbers but more faithful. Massive Church growth is way overrated. I’ll take quality over quantity anyday.

Jesus Christ IS Lord!
A Lordship is MUCH different than a pure Democracy.
We live in times where we, in America, do not know what it is like to have one ruler or King to guide the nation.
WIth that said, it appears that these ‘Catholics’ want to overthrow The King of Kings and Lord of Lords to be KING themselves!
If they leave, let them leave but WE will STILL pray for them.
I have heard it said this way:
“If they leave, were they Catholic after all?”

I.E. Catholic being in Full acceptance of what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[nianka]

The question is why? Why are these old geezers going against the grain? I had always thought older people were less wanting of change. Although that one hippie guy sort of gave it away. Who still wears a ponytail when they are well into their 60’s? Let go of it dude!
[/quote]

Check out post #25 for the answer.
nianka

 

[JKirkLVNV]

nianka:

And do you know why? Because at that time the voters were exquisitely qualified to vote. They were thoroughly grounded in the truth and trained to the nth degree. People weren’t allowed to receive communion unless they proved they knew their religion. People were not just willy-nilly received into the faith. They had to prove themselves! The fact that most Catholics these days don’t know the difference between a mortal and a venial sin, can’t, for example, recite the Corporal Works of Mercy or the Fruits of the Holy Spirit makes it abundantly clear that that they should never be allowed to vote for a bishop.
Just a little more crabbiness from little old crabby me.
nianka

I concur. The situation in the American Church would be far worse if our laity were allowed to vote for their bishops.