Future of Private Revelations?

[commenter]

I have always regarded approved private revelations as helpful. They are like the music in Church, they don’t (or shouldn’t) teach new doctrine, but they sometimes increase enthusiasm, and encourage people to focus on public revelation and the public liturgy with increased devotion.

When I was in grammar school, around 1960, we had thorough training in public revelation, so we could study private revelation a little, especially Fatima, in the larger context of Catholicism. My experience with teens and young adults nowadays suggests they have far less knowledge of public revelation than young Catholics years ago.

I have also seen videos of highly credible people such as Bishop Sheen in the 1950s, solidly endorsing Fatima. But I also know in the 1950s Catholics in general were far more obedient to the Magisterium, and to public revelation, than they are now. The majority of supporters of private revelation, including Fatima, are obedient now. A highly vocal minority is not.

When the Church approved Fatima in 1930, I suspect they believed the revelation was “complete”. I doubt they envisioned future disclosures which may or may not be through Sr. Lucia, let alone the endless interpretations and speculations, especially from people who then evaluate the Magisterium, and criticize pope and bishops.

So I suggest the Church will be much more cautious in the future about private revelations: in times of rampant ignorance of public revelation they will concentrate almost exclusively on public revelation. If anything the Church will continue attention to devotions as Divine Mercy, where St. Faustina was dead for a few decades, and the total revelation is about private conversion, not about social/political trends. The Church (I predict) will never again approve a private revelation where the visionaries are still living, or where there is any potential for criticizing the hierarchy.

 

[M-Dent]

You may be correct about this issue. Or at least correct that the promotion of Private Revelation by the Church may have more pitfalls at the present time.

I do find your comparison of Private Revelation to the Hymns of the Liturgy a suitable one. But as we are warned with concupiscence and ignorance of humanity- a gift from Heaven to feed the faith can be twisted to a curse from Hell if exploited. The snake helped confuse the first humans – and they were sinless, at the time!

 

[Memaw]

I have always regarded approved private revelations as helpful. They are like the music in Church, they don’t (or shouldn’t) teach new doctrine, but they sometimes increase enthusiasm, and encourage people to focus on public revelation and the public liturgy with increased devotion.

When I was in grammar school, around 1960, we had thorough training in public revelation, so we could study private revelation a little, especially Fatima, in the larger context of Catholicism. My experience with teens and young adults nowadays suggests they have far less knowledge of public revelation than young Catholics years ago.

I have also seen videos of highly credible people such as Bishop Sheen in the 1950s, solidly endorsing Fatima. But I also know in the 1950s Catholics in general were far more obedient to the Magisterium, and to public revelation, than they are now. The majority of supporters of private revelation, including Fatima, are obedient now. A highly vocal minority is not.

When the Church approved Fatima in 1930, I suspect they believed the revelation was “complete”. I doubt they envisioned future disclosures which may or may not be through Sr. Lucia, let alone the endless interpretations and speculations, especially from people who then evaluate the Magisterium, and criticize pope and bishops.

So I suggest the Church will be much more cautious in the future about private revelations: in times of rampant ignorance of public revelation they will concentrate almost exclusively on public revelation. If anything the Church will continue attention to devotions as Divine Mercy, where St. Faustina was dead for a few decades, and the total revelation is about private conversion, not about social/political trends. The Church (I predict) will never again approve a private revelation where the visionaries are still living, or where there is any potential for criticizing the hierarchy.

There is always"“potential”" for criticizing the hierarchy!! The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, not those that criticize Her or disagree with Her!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[joeybaggz]

When the Church approved Fatima in 1930, I suspect they believed the revelation was “complete”.

Your use of the word “approve”. How do you understand church approval?

It is my understanding that when a revelation, private or otherwise, arises, the Church charges the local bishop to investigate the matter and relay his findings to Rome. Rome then examines it and releases its finding of “approval.” . But what is being said is that upon investigation, it is found that in the instance under examination, there is nothing contrary to the deposit of faith, and people are therefore allowed to have devotion, observe, etc. Approval is not the Church stating that what has been found is true and it becomes a tenet of the faith. One is free to have devotion or not…

Fatima has been given “approval” from Rome. I can believe it, or not, it is my choice. Only when something is declared an infallible teaching either by all the bishops of the church speaking in one voice on a matter of faith or morals, or the Bishop of Rome in his capacity as supreme teacher, declaring the matter “from the Chair of Peter” (ex cathedra) must something be believed by all the faithful. That has happened only once in 1950 - the doctrine of the Assumption.

Shalom

 

[TK421]

Private revelation is sometimes frowned upon because it touches on subjects some contemporary Catholics prefer to avoid, such as the existence & population of hell (Fatima) or Purgatory (St Padre Pio).

We already have approved private revelation by the authority of certain bishops, such as Our Lady of Soufanieh. The woman who saw the apparitions & experiences olive oil secreting from her skin is still fairly young and has a Facebook page. They occurred in Syria. I don’t think private revelation is going to disappear because of widespread poor catechisis. In the times of the later Roman Empire, the Arian heresy was so rampant it consisted of 1/3rd of all those identified as Christians, and that isn’t to say of all the violent in-fighting, power struggles, ignorance, and poor catechisis that existed among the Catholic Church and the strong mixing of Christian and pagan doctrines among undereducated laity. And this happening all the while the entire Roman world was under threat of being exterminated by the Huns or Visigoths or anybody else that was looking for plunder & glory. We always like to think we are living in the most benighted of times, but widespread ignorance, spiritual assaults, and temporal assaults on all fronts is nothing new. Life goes on and the sky doesn’t fall.

 

[commenter]

Private revelation is sometimes frowned upon because it touches on subjects some contemporary Catholics prefer to avoid, such as the existence & population of hell (Fatima) or Purgatory (St Padre Pio).
… I don’t think private revelation is going to disappear because of widespread poor catechisis. In the times of the later Roman Empire,… .

• The Magisterium was much more accepted by Catholics in 1917 than in 2017.
• The levels of catechesis is hard to compare; Catholics today get more education overall, but also get more false information from Catholic sources. Preaching likely was more doctrinal then than now.
• Catholics today get far more false information from secular sources, mainly the media, than in 1917. Much of it is described more or less as spiritual.

In 1917, and the decades up to the 1950s, the Church could more safely endorse approved private revelations. If a class is attentive to the teacher, already solid on the basics of a subject, without a lot of distraction going on, the teacher may fruitfully explore some tangential or possibly related topics, that are open for inquiry, not so crucial but interesting.

In 2017? It’s not that private revelation is regarded as “bad” but maybe something we no longer have the luxury to do; like the teacher who has students not at all docile, who have not learned the core public revelation, who are subject to enormous distractions, and who lack the ability to discern public revelation, from approved private revelation, from unapproved private revelation, from something they heard on a talk show on CNN.

There are times when the class is really far behind, the teacher will make a decision to focus **only **on the **core **material, passing up some interesting stuff on the side. It’s not that it’s bad, just that struggling students can only focus on the basics now.

 

[TK421]

I think it is Matthew Kelly of Dynamic Catholic that broke apart the kind of difference it would make in the Church if just an additional 2 people per parish became highly motivated. The differences would ultimately be quite huge. You don’t need any boosters to reach out to the masses; it just needs to effect a core group of believers and the impact will be tremendous.

Besides, the most common problem in the Church is apathy, not superstition or aggressively pursuing false revelation. The worst that will happen from approved private revelation is people ignoring it.

Prior to the World Wars, the Church was in a uniquely comfortable position. The Counter Reformation and the long list of magnificent saints & writings it produced was solidly imbedded in Church history, the Ottoman which plagued Europe for centuries was sick and fading, and the faith was beginning to spread across all continents more rapidly while still having a robust base of believers in Europe and the Americas. Then the World Wars happened, followed by a rise of secular liberalism. The average Westerner is not as well catechized today compared to the turn of the 20th century, but that would be true for almost any time period in the Church. The vast majority of its history is more similar to today, though every era has its own unique trials. Catechisis wasn’t good in the Roman period or the Dark Ages. It got much better in the High Middle Ages, but then internal sin and corruption had reached such a point that a German governor decided to dispatch 1,500 prostitutes during the Council of Constance. Protestantism & war was to spread less than a century later. During all of these periods, there was a consistent stream of private revelation.

 

[commenter]

Private revelation is sometimes frowned upon because it touches on subjects some contemporary Catholics prefer to avoid, such as the existence & population of hell (Fatima) or Purgatory (St Padre Pio).

Many people are more inclined to read up on private revelations than to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I don’t think you would have much trouble finding people interested in reading about the population of the places you mentioned, but how many do you know read the Catechism regularly?

 

[commenter]

Besides, the most common problem in the Church is apathy, not superstition or aggressively pursuing false revelation. The worst that will happen from approved private revelation is people ignoring it.

Some priests left, or were suspended from active ministry in the Catholic Church, because of their interpretations and actions in response to ******approved ******private revelations. Sometimes interpretations of private revelations disagrees with the Magisterium, or with rival interpretations of the same private revelation by other individuals.
Those who oppose the Vatican often end up opposing each other. Most people do not oppose the Vatican over private revelations, but those who do, seem to be less rare nowadays.

But I agree with you on the apathy part being the most common problem.

 

[psalm90]

To me, the issue of private revelations is the tendency of people to seek acclaim for them, to spread their message to the world – to turn private revelation into general revelation (as closely as possible).

As I understand it, private revelation is intended primarily for the one(s) who receive it.

And you see what else develops when the news about it spreads – there rises up a whole cottage industry of painted scenes on plates, statues, etc. and pilgrimages. There is an entire self-serving aspect of the private revelation.

Personally, I wish the energy was expended by Catholics in becoming more knowledgeable about scripture, the catechism, and apologetics and in performing spiritual and corporal works of mercy. I think that’s our spiritual day job.
1 Co 14:1- says “Make love your aim and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts especially that you might* prophesy.*" Now, St Paul defines in v3 what prophesy is: ….he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation, but he who prophesies edifies [builds up] the Church.” v. 12 “strive to excel in building up the Church.” and finally v.24 “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, his is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.”

In the general intercessions at Mass, I never hear a prayer for spiritual gifts, especially for the gift of prophesy.

 

[Memaw]

To me, the issue of private revelations is the tendency of people to seek acclaim for them, to spread their message to the world – to turn private revelation into general revelation (as closely as possible).

As I understand it, private revelation is intended primarily for the one(s) who receive it.

And you see what else develops when the news about it spreads – there rises up a whole cottage industry of painted scenes on plates, statues, etc. and pilgrimages. There is an entire self-serving aspect of the private revelation.

Personally, I wish the energy was expended by Catholics in becoming more knowledgeable about scripture, the catechism, and apologetics and in performing spiritual and corporal works of mercy. I think that’s our spiritual day job.
1 Co 14:1- says “Make love your aim and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts especially that you might* prophesy.*" Now, St Paul defines in v3 what prophesy is: ….he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation, but he who prophesies edifies [builds up] the Church.” v. 12 “strive to excel in building up the Church.” and finally v.24 “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, his is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.”

In the general intercessions at Mass, I never hear a prayer for spiritual gifts, especially for the gift of prophesy.

Approved Private Revelation has very definite place within Catholic teaching. Just read what the Popes have said about them, especially Fatima and Divine Mercy!! Why would God send His Mother to us if HE wasn’t serious about it??? The problem is, so much false interpretations of them confuse those who haven’t studied the true facts. Private Revelations have brought us many beautiful devotions, such as the Sacred Heart, the Rosary, Divine Mercy etc. But we must be careful not to chase after the unapproved ones that many go against Church teaching or contradict it, as well as the false interpretations. God Bless, Memaw

 

[commenter]

Approved Private Revelation has very definite place within Catholic teaching. Just read what the Popes have said about them, especially Fatima and Divine Mercy!! Why would God send His Mother to us if HE wasn’t serious about it??? The problem is, so much false interpretations of them confuse those who haven’t studied the true facts. Private Revelations have brought us many beautiful devotions, such as the Sacred Heart, the Rosary, Divine Mercy etc. But we must be careful not to chase after the unapproved ones that many go against Church teaching or contradict it, as well as the false interpretations. God Bless, Memaw

The fact that something good can, at times, be abused does not eliminate the good that normally flows through private revelation.

I am just suggesting that in 2017 we need to be far more cautious due to widespread ignorance of public revelation, and massive spiritual confusion in general. That is unfortunately the reality.

 

[commenter]

Approved Private Revelation has very definite place within Catholic teaching. Just read what the Popes have said about them, especially Fatima and Divine Mercy!! Why would God send His Mother to us if HE wasn’t serious about it??? The problem is, so much false interpretations of them confuse those who haven’t studied the true facts. Private Revelations have brought us many beautiful devotions, such as the Sacred Heart, the Rosary, Divine Mercy etc. But we must be careful not to chase after the unapproved ones that many go against Church teaching or contradict it, as well as the false interpretations. God Bless, Memaw

The fact that something good can, at times, be abused does not eliminate the good that normally flows through private revelation!

I am just suggesting that in 2017 we need to be far more cautious due to widespread ignorance of public revelation, and massive spiritual confusion in general. That is unfortunately the reality. I received a facebook post from what seemed a reliable source, lumping together approved marian apparitions, with those that were unapproved, with those that were condemned. We have to recognize many filters of common sense are not working at present.

 

[Memaw]

The fact that something good can, at times, be abused does not eliminate the good that normally flows through private revelation!

I am just suggesting that in 2017 we need to be far more cautious due to widespread ignorance of public revelation, and massive spiritual confusion in general. That is unfortunately the reality. I received a facebook post from what seemed a reliable source, lumping together approved marian apparitions, with those that were unapproved, with those that were condemned. We have to recognize many filters of common sense are not working at present.

I agree, but it is up to us Catholics to learn our Faith well enough so we can know the difference. And there are so many orthodox ways to do that. Catholic Answers for ONE and also EWTN Catholic Cable network and also radio.The CCC and so many wonderful books on the market put out by those two sources. God Bless, Memaw

 

[rinnie]

Private revelation is sometimes frowned upon because it touches on subjects some contemporary Catholics prefer to avoid, such as the existence & population of hell (Fatima) or Purgatory (St Padre Pio).

We already have approved private revelation by the authority of certain bishops, such as Our Lady of Soufanieh. The woman who saw the apparitions & experiences olive oil secreting from her skin is still fairly young and has a Facebook page. They occurred in Syria. I don’t think private revelation is going to disappear because of widespread poor catechisis. In the times of the later Roman Empire, the Arian heresy was so rampant it consisted of 1/3rd of all those identified as Christians, and that isn’t to say of all the violent in-fighting, power struggles, ignorance, and poor catechisis that existed among the Catholic Church and the strong mixing of Christian and pagan doctrines among undereducated laity. And this happening all the while the entire Roman world was under threat of being exterminated by the Huns or Visigoths or anybody else that was looking for plunder & glory. We always like to think we are living in the most benighted of times, but widespread ignorance, spiritual assaults, and temporal assaults on all fronts is nothing new. Life goes on and the sky doesn’t fall.

I don’t believe the Church declared Fatima a Divine Revelation. What did Jesus forget to tell us. Jesus told us everything we need to know before he died. The N.T. closed Divine Revelation.

With that said Fatima was a Apparition. There is a difference.

 

[rinnie]

Approved Private Revelation has very definite place within Catholic teaching. Just read what the Popes have said about them, especially Fatima and Divine Mercy!! Why would God send His Mother to us if HE wasn’t serious about it??? The problem is, so much false interpretations of them confuse those who haven’t studied the true facts. Private Revelations have brought us many beautiful devotions, such as the Sacred Heart, the Rosary, Divine Mercy etc. But we must be careful not to chase after the unapproved ones that many go against Church teaching or contradict it, as well as the false interpretations. God Bless, Memaw

The Blessed Mother did not reveal a Revelation. Jesus taught us to pray not the Blessed Mother (although I love her with all my heart).

 

[Memaw]

The Blessed Mother did not reveal a Revelation. Jesus taught us to pray not the Blessed Mother (although I love her with all my heart).

It IS called a private revelation!!! The Blessed Mother reveals only what God wills, in a private revelation. Until the Church finds it “Worthy of Belief” we are to be very cautious about putting to much trust in them. There have been probably thousands of unapproved ones and very few approved ones. So guess who may be up to old tricks!!! I don’t think anyone ever said the Blessed Mother “taught” us how to pray, she ASKS us to pray. “Pray the Rosary every day,” She said at Fatima. God Bless, Memaw

 

[commenter]

CCC:
“67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.”
Note the bolding is not in original, but by me. It may be that private revelations were much “safer” for the Church to promote in earlier periods of history - say, 1910 to 1960 - than today. When confusion is rampant, and anti-Magisterium skepticism common, it may be necessary to focus almost exclusively on public revelation, for **this **certain period of history.

I am interested in further guesses about the possible **future **of private revelation, at least in next few decades.

 

[rinnie]

CCC:
“67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.”
Note the bolding is not in original, but by me. It may be that private revelations were much “safer” for the Church to promote in earlier periods of history - say, 1910 to 1960 - than today. When confusion is rampant, and anti-Magisterium skepticism common, it may be necessary to focus almost exclusively on public revelation, for **this **certain period of history.

I am interested in further guesses about the possible **future **of private revelation, at least in next few decades.

This is more or less what I was trying to say. ITs not really a Revelation, as far as telling us something Christ has not told us. As it states it is not designed to improve a or complete the revelation of Christ. People get confused on what a private revelation truly is. I think the Church just needs to explain more not to us, we understand, but to others what it really is.
,
I believe with the way the world is we are going to get more warnings from God using his Mother and Saints. But I wish they would call them private warnings.

But I think we could all say we need to all pray more, and the world would be different, Nothing private about that.