Future sins forgiven?

[thessalonian]

Something else is bothering me this morning. Some Evengelical Christianse that past, present, and FUTURE sins are forgiven when a new Christian repents and puts his trust in Jesus. You would apply the following to future sins as well as past and present.

Heb.8

1. [12] For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
   and I will remember their sins no more."
   Heb.10
2. [17] then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more.”

But if God forgets our FUTURE sins how can he chastise us for them?

Heb 12
[4] In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
[5] And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? – “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
[6] For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
[7] It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

If they are forgiven before we commit them then how can God punish us for them when they are forgotten?

Blessings

 

[Magicsilence]

We are defintely not forgiven for future sins!

Heb.8

1. [12] For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
   and I will remember their sins no more."

To remember an act has to have been committed, therefore it cant apply to the future.

 

[Tom]

Yeah, but doesn’t it sound great? I mean, no wonder the Protestors invented this, to paraphrase ML, sin and sin with all your might, you’re already forgiven. Who wouldn’t want that? Too bad it isn’t true… LOL

 

[petra]

thessalonian:

Something else is bothering me this morning. Some Evengelical Christianse that past, present, and FUTURE sins are forgiven when a new Christian repents and puts his trust in Jesus. You would apply the following to future sins as well as past and present.

I think the problem is Evangelicals tend to see forgiveness as exclusively a result of legal status: grace imputed. They fail to see that grace is also applied (infused).

A distinction should be made between temporal consequences and eternal consequences. Evangelicals pray daily for forgiveness of their sins, but this is understood to restore closeness and fellowship with God rather than restore salvation. Catholics do the same thing when praying for forgiveness for venial sins. So your question is really about forgiveness of eternal consequences of sin (damnation).

In a way, the eternal consequences of future sins are forgiven if we remain in a state of grace. Venial sins have temporal consequences, but venial sins are already forgiven with regard to eternal consquences. So in that regard we could say that past, present, and future sins are forgiven. But mortal sins are another matter.

But rather than assert that some future sins are forgiven (venial) and others are not (mortal), it may be more accurate to say that all future sins are forgiven as long as we remain in a state of grace. What disqualifies mortal sins from advance forgiveness are their specific characteristic of rejecting God and our salvation. Therefore Christ’s atonement can no longer be applied.

 

[mkw]

I am not nearly as smart and as well read as most in this forum. but, how can FUTURE sins be forgiven when they have NOT even been commited yet?

 

[Fidelis]

petra:

I think the problem is Evangelicals tend to see forgiveness as exclusively a result of legal status: grace imputed. They fail to see that grace is also applied (infused).

A distinction should be made between temporal consequences and eternal consequences. Evangelicals pray daily for forgiveness of their sins, but this is understood to restore closeness and fellowship with God rather than restore salvation. Catholics do the same thing when praying for forgiveness for venial sins. So your question is really about forgiveness of eternal consequences of sin (damnation).

In a way, the eternal consequences of future sins are forgiven if we remain in a state of grace. Venial sins have temporal consequences, but venial sins are already forgiven with regard to eternal consquences. So in that regard we could say that past, present, and future sins are forgiven. But mortal sins are another matter.

But rather than assert that some future sins are forgiven (venial) and others are not (mortal), it may be more accurate to say that all future sins are forgiven as long as we remain in a state of grace. What disqualifies mortal sins from advance forgiveness are their specific characteristic of rejecting God and our salvation. Therefore Christ’s atonement can no longer be applied.

This is further complicated by the fact that most Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do not diferrentiate between venial and mortal sins. “A sin is a sin,” they say.

This view is refuted by Scripture, as we see in 1 Jn 5:16-17:

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

“Deadly sin” is mortal; “sin that is not deadly” is venial.

 

[petra]

Fidelis:

This is further complicated by the fact that most Evangelicals and Fundamentalists do not diferrentiate between venial and mortal sins. “A sin is a sin,” they say.

This view is refuted by Scripture, as we see in 1 Jn 5:16-17:

“Deadly sin” is mortal; “sin that is not deadly” is venial.

Very good point.

There is a measure of truth to their incomplete understanding of sin. The reason Evangelicals say that sin is sin is because apart from Christ, even a single venial sin (although they don’t call it that) is enough to separate us from God forever. There are 2 ways to be saved: live the Old Covenant perfectly (which only Jesus has done, and which qualified Him to be the perfect sacrificial lamb) or partake in the Covenant of Grace. (Even Old Testament people were saved by grace–they trusted in the forthcoming atonement of the Messiah.) So in this regard, no sin is too small and insignificant to create eternal separation from God. Evangelicals understand this correctly.

But what they do not understand is that we can choose to walk out from under the Covenant of Grace. This may be a deliberate choice to reject Christianity or it may be a serious enough sin that a person tramples and blasphemes the energetic efforts of the Holy Spirit to keep us from committing serious sin. In so doing, people step out from under Grace and are in mortal sin.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

thessalonian:

Something else is bothering me this morning. Some Evengelical Christianse that past, present, and FUTURE sins are forgiven when a new Christian repents and puts his trust in Jesus. You would apply the following to future sins as well as past and present.

Heb.8

1. [12] For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
   and I will remember their sins no more."
   Heb.10
2. [17] then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more.”

But if God forgets our FUTURE sins how can he chastise us for them?

Heb 12
[4] In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
[5] And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? – “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
[6] For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
[7] It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

If they are forgiven before we commit them then how can God punish us for them when they are forgotten?

Blessings

All sins can be forgiven - even those which are still (from our time-limited POV) uncommitted. But we cannot be forgiven unless we reject our sins; unless we turn away from them by the grace of God.​

But that is no reason whatever to commit them - one cannot at one and the same time intend to sin, and repent of doing so. To do that, would not only be to presume on God’s mercy - it would also be completely illogical.

God has not granted us His grace so that we might vomit on it - we receive it to avoid sin by living holily, not in order to waste it, but that we might more and more be renewed by Christ, and reject evil-doing. It is a means of avoiding sin - not of indulging in sin.

God does chastise us - it’s a fact. And does so, that we may lose all taste for disobedience. To disobey the God who is “of purer eyes than to behold evil” (Habakkuk 3.13) is to trample on the Blood of Christ and to risk “the wrath of the Lamb” (Revelation 6). God is righteous, Most Holy, and a God Who “hates iniquity”. “God is not mocked” (Galatians 6) - and we forget that at our peril.

If we sin in the belief that we can repent later - we may well find that our punishment will be, to lack the opportunity for repentance. The danger of the idea that we can allow ourselves to sin now, to repent later, can hardly be exaggerated. Those who live like devils, cannot assume they will die the deaths of saints.

Does God Incarnate die for our sins - so that we may be free to commit sin ? ##

 

[Todd_Easton]

My :twocents: …

The idea that all our future sins were forgiven when we accepted Christ as Lord, nullifies 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness,” which makes God’s forgiveness conditioned on our confessing our sins, something we can only do after we have actually commited the sins.

 

[thessalonian]

I know you guys are out there lurking on this thread. It’'s the only way you can hold your eternal security and OSAS views together. Otherwise they don’t make sense and I hear this on Protestant radio all the time. John Macarthur believes it. So does Hank Hanagraph. I am quite certain you can find it in James White’s books, and Eric Svedson. It’s very common. I just googled for it and got 3800 hits. So defend it.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Since no one has said it (I think), then I’ll say it. Jesus died for our sins.

If that were so, and we believe it to be so, then we shouldn’t have to worry in any way about committing sins ever, because they forgiven at the cross.

But, we are also taught to confess our sins and to approach the heavenly throne for forgiveness – which is considered one-and-the-same in the Catholic Church.

We must always be humbled by the mercy and love of God, His providence and justice, and His justice.

 

[UKFaithGirl]

But that is no reason whatever to commit them - one cannot at one and the same time intend to sin, and repent of doing so. To do that, would not only be to presume on God’s mercy - it would also be completely illogical.

One can know they will at some point in the future sin, (including mortally), and be forgiven for them by knowing that all our sins, past, present and future are forgiven, (Colossians 2:13 Paul wrote, “He forgave us all our sins”. The Greek word he used means each and every sin. That means past present and future.

gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/forgiven-for-all-sins-or-just-past-sins/

 

[UKFaithGirl]

So in this regard, no sin is too small and insignificant to create eternal separation from God. Evangelicals understand this correctly.

Actually, in Colossians 2:13 Paul wrote, “He forgave us all our sins”. The Greek word he used means each and every sin. That means past present and future.

 

[davidv]

Actually, in Colossians 2:13 Paul wrote, “He forgave us all our sins”. The Greek word he used means each and every sin. That means past present and future.

Is the future forgiveness dependent on a future repentance?

 

[UKFaithGirl]

Is the future forgiveness dependent on a future repentance?

No, because it doesn’t say that. It says they are already forgiven. Also, not everyone is 100% repentant every time they confess a sin in the future.

 

[davidv]

No, because it doesn’t say that. It says they are already forgiven. Also, not everyone is 100% repentant every time they confess a sin in the future.

How can God forgive you if you don’t repent? What does repentance mean to you.

 

[UKFaithGirl]

How can God forgive you if you don’t repent? What does repentance mean to you.

In Colossians 2:13 Paul wrote, “He forgave us all our sins”.
John says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. This means to confess THAT WE ARE SINNERS, not to literally confess every single sin.
And how do I know my interpretation is correct? I don’t, but is God going to damn people to Hell for the human error of incorrect interpretation?

 

[davidv]

In Colossians 2:13 Paul wrote, “He forgave us all our sins”.
John says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. This means to confess THAT WE ARE SINNERS, not to literally confess every single sin.
And how do I know my interpretation is correct? I don’t, but is God going to damn people to Hell for the human error of incorrect interpretation?

I choose to believe the interpretation made by Christ’s Church. See the Catechism of the Church on forgiveness.

 

[UKFaithGirl]

I choose to believe the interpretation made by Christ’s Church. See the Catechism of the Church on forgiveness.

Again, it’s down to interpretation, (of that verse), and whether we are damned to Hell for the human error of misinterpretation.

 

[UKFaithGirl]

Anyway, in regard to the sacrament of confession, yes, we are advised to confess our sins to God and repent and ask God for forgiveness, but it does not affect our salvation, it is just a good thing to do. The Bible says all our sins are forgiven and the verse about forgiveness is down to people’s interpretation of it, (one of us is wrong, yet that is forgiven).