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Lance
Guest
IMO neither the Dems or Reps want to tackle the real problems with illegal immigration. This is all a tempest in a teapot. We will not see real reform until a terrorist brings in a dirty bomb or something like that. Washington is getting too much money from the illegals to make real reform. The illegals pay income tax and social security but don’t get many services from the feds. Most of the services they get like medical help, schools for their kids, food pantries, etc. come from local or state taxes and charities.
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Isidore_AK
Guest
What hispanic vote? Thats like saying that the GOP is risking the black vote…they all vote for the dem’s anyway, so whats to risk?
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wabrams
Guest
Are enough of them even elilgible to vote?
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Lance
Guest
GWB had a large Hispanic following in the last election.
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b_justb
Guest
Illegal immigrants can’t vote.
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anti_islam
Guest
The hispanic vote is insignifigant compared to the majority of the population. Also, Anyone who bears the Mexican flag during the recent riots should be tried for sedition. Where are the White Supremacy groups when you call.
God Bless
God Bless
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wabrams
Guest
I made a post earlier to that effect, though not as articulate as yours, but deleted it. Glad someone else thinks the same way.
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Lance
Guest
But the Hispanics who are here legally can and do. They are against the reforms and neither party wants to lose their vote, besides with the liberal laws about voter registration you can not be sure that the illegals are not voting.
Dead people have voted in Chicago for years, why not live illegals?
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Digitonomy
Guest
:tsktsk: Someone didn’t read the OP.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
No they can’t. Legal presence doesn’t mean citizenship. Only those who were either born here or naturalized can vote.
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Lance
Guest
Which is a large vote in Illinois and I would bet that it isd an even larger vote in California. We are nit picking. The Hispanics who are here legally and have become or are in the process of becoming citizens are a large actual and potential voting bloc that neither party is willing to give up.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I have heard a lot of speculation about what Hispanic voters like or do not like about this whole immigration bill and issue, and it strikes me most of the commentators haven’t got a clue, and tend to regard this as a monolithic voting bloc when it is not.
Down here (SoTex) the population is 90% Hispanic, and of those, 90% Mexican with the rest from Central and South America. There is also a sizeable Filipino population that does not like to be called (generally) Hispanic. Of those who are Mexican ancestry, at least 60% are 2nd & 3rd generation, and a a sizable number have families that have lived here since before Texas entered the Union. A majority are “Americanized” (whatever that means) consider themselves American before Mexican, although they value their language, culture and religion. English is often their first language although many still speak and read Spanish. Someone wishing to do business here would do well to understand both.
Those who speak only Spanish (or Central American dialects) are recent immigrants, the majority legal, or casual workers, mostly in agriculture but also construction and other jobs, who move back and forth across the border regularly. Of course the illegal traffic keeps the border patrol busy, but they are even more concerned about the drug traffic, of which this is a major corridor.
There is a wide range of opinion in all these groups about the entire immigration issue. I heard an acrimonious debate last night among adults who had grown up as migrants picking fruit all over this country, whose parents worked to get them education, and who now have good jobs and professions.
Point being politicians, pollsters or journalists who try to ascribe one point of view to Hispanics in this country are missing the boat, and cannot pretend to speak for all.
Down here (SoTex) the population is 90% Hispanic, and of those, 90% Mexican with the rest from Central and South America. There is also a sizeable Filipino population that does not like to be called (generally) Hispanic. Of those who are Mexican ancestry, at least 60% are 2nd & 3rd generation, and a a sizable number have families that have lived here since before Texas entered the Union. A majority are “Americanized” (whatever that means) consider themselves American before Mexican, although they value their language, culture and religion. English is often their first language although many still speak and read Spanish. Someone wishing to do business here would do well to understand both.
Those who speak only Spanish (or Central American dialects) are recent immigrants, the majority legal, or casual workers, mostly in agriculture but also construction and other jobs, who move back and forth across the border regularly. Of course the illegal traffic keeps the border patrol busy, but they are even more concerned about the drug traffic, of which this is a major corridor.
There is a wide range of opinion in all these groups about the entire immigration issue. I heard an acrimonious debate last night among adults who had grown up as migrants picking fruit all over this country, whose parents worked to get them education, and who now have good jobs and professions.
Point being politicians, pollsters or journalists who try to ascribe one point of view to Hispanics in this country are missing the boat, and cannot pretend to speak for all.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Not yet! :bigyikes:
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b_justb
Guest
That is true. But I see things pretty much in black and white (being the self proclaimed absolutist that I am
). Is illegal immigration wrong? Yes. Then uphold the law. Should the laws be changed because we have a changing environment in this area? Maybe, let’s take a look, but until they are changed, uphold the laws that we have now. Does the probability that a certain voting block will not back my “do right” position alter me doing the right thing? No way, Jose. As a Political Conservative, one of our planks is to always seek to do what is right; no matter what public opinion is. Upholding and obeying the laws of the land is what is right. If the law needs to be changed, we do so the right way; from within the political framework that outlines how those changes happen and then take affect.
snortDead people have voted in Chicago for years, why not live illegals?
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davy39
Guest
Well, that will be the next step for the politicians. After they grant blanket citizenship for all of the ones that are here, they will also give them the right to vote. It’s been a long time since the politicians did anything for the good of the country.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
This post displays sheer ignorance.
First, no one is talking about granting “blanket citizenship” to anyone. Second, part of citizenship is the inherent right to vote. They go hand in hand.
Now, let’s enter the portal to the realm of the Reality Based Community and see what IS being proposed:
First, undocumented immigrants will have to register, pay a fine, pay their taxes (if they haven’t already), submit to a background and security check and a health inspection. Only after this, will they be given a new class of VISA (a gold or blue card…they’ve yet to determine the color) that allows them to work and travel for a period of up to six years.
Second, AFTER six years, the blue or gold holders will have to pay a second fine, be current in their taxes, submit to another background and security check and a second health inspection, proof of English proficiency or serious attempts to learn English (like registration in English classes) and knowledge of basic US civics. Only then will the visa holders be eligible to apply for Permanent Residence Status (a green card).
Finally, five years after obtaining the green card will the immigrant be eligible to apply for citizenship under the normal circumstances.
We’re not talking about a circumstance where the President signs a bill and poof all the undocumented immigrants are instant US citizens with all the rights and responsibilities that apply thereto. No one is suggesting that. No one is suggesting giving green cards (NOT citizenship) to anyone.
It is a bald-faced lie to say otherwise.
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davy39
Guest
Lcms First of all , inferring that I am ignorant is very uncharitable, to say the least. The whole point to my post is this. Most ILLEGAL, (not undocumented) aliens will not walk into any government office and submit to a background check, a security check and a health inspection. Why should they? They are already working and traveling all over the country. Most of them could care less about learning English, and they sure aren’t going to pay any fines. After 11 years of this failed system, the feds will throw their hands in the air, and forget about the whole thing. Also, I don’t believe there is anything in this bill that solves the problem of border security. It does little good to issue green cards, visa cards or whatever, if they can’t stem the rising tide of ILLEGALS sneaking accross. The whole thing will be nothing but an unworkable, bureaucratic mess. And lastly, Lcms, I was giving my opinion in my original post. I have a right to that just like you or anyone else has. If you want to believe that it is a “bald-faced lie”, that’s your problem. God bless!This post displays sheer ignorance.
First, no one is talking about granting “blanket citizenship” to anyone. Second, part of citizenship is the inherent right to vote. They go hand in hand.
Now, let’s enter the portal to the realm of the Reality Based Community and see what IS being proposed:
First, undocumented immigrants will have to register, pay a fine, pay their taxes (if they haven’t already), submit to a background and security check and a health inspection. Only after this, will they be given a new class of VISA (a gold or blue card…they’ve yet to determine the color) that allows them to work and travel for a period of up to six years.
Second, AFTER six years, the blue or gold holders will have to pay a second fine, be current in their taxes, submit to another background and security check and a second health inspection, proof of English proficiency or serious attempts to learn English (like registration in English classes) and knowledge of basic US civics. Only then will the visa holders be eligible to apply for Permanent Residence Status (a green card).
Finally, five years after obtaining the green card will the immigrant be eligible to apply for citizenship under the normal circumstances.
We’re not talking about a circumstance where the President signs a bill and poof all the undocumented immigrants are instant US citizens with all the rights and responsibilities that apply thereto. No one is suggesting that. No one is suggesting giving green cards (NOT citizenship) to anyone.
It is a bald-faced lie to say otherwise.
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matt1985
Guest
I have come to the conclusion that it is best just to let as many people in to the country as possible. Protectionism just doesn’t work . I want the Hispanic vote to go to the Republican Party and keep it in charge for the next 20 years. The good thing about Mexican immigrants is that they are catholic and lean right on abortion.
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gilliam
Guest
Mexico has strong borders. It works for them.
Before saying something like this, do you know the percentage of prisoners in the CA and AZ prisons who are illegal immigrants and have committed crimes in the US?
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