Gah, I now understand what you guys are talking about

[jmcrae]

Looking Amish enough? What’s that about? And the topic is…

The traditional long grey dresses and the head-coverings, I’m guessing.

 

[CarrieH]

What about those who don’t care for a traditional re-enactment or for a college christian rock camp?

I beg your pardon, but the Extraordinary Form of the Mass is *hardly *a “re-enactment.”

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Do you say that deaf people using sign language are doing “cheers”? That’s pretty derogatory. The common hand sign to the Alleluia is actually the sign language sign for “Alleluia”. There is no problem with everyone doing one movement such as sign language with music.

I think you are misunderstanding me. It had nothing to do with sign language. It was literally like the movement of a cheer. Rolling the hands on Ollie, ollie, and then waving them out, then clapping and doing it over again. It kind of reminded me of some form of dance from the late 60’s, something like maybe the Four Tops would do. Or maybe the Brady Bunch. It was extremely similar to a hand movements we did in the Pep Squad during high school football games in the 70’s.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Gloria

clap clap

Oh gloria

clap clap

Oh no! I forgot my lighter! Oh wait, I’m at Mass, not a concert.

You know what I don’t like about that Gloria? It’s very hard to keep up. It feels like the music is racing and you are tripping over the words.

 

[agapewolf]

I think you are misunderstanding me. It had nothing to do with sign language. It was literally like the movement of a cheer. Rolling the hands on Ollie, ollie, and then waving them out, then clapping and doing it over again. It kind of reminded me of some form of dance from the late 60’s, something like maybe the Four Tops would do. Or maybe the Brady Bunch. It was extremely similar to a hand movements we did in the Pep Squad during high school football games in the 70’s.

No I’m not misunderstanding you. That is the sign for Alleluia…that is done around the country. (whether ASL or not, doesn’t matter). People do that all over the country as part of a sign when singing the Alleluia. its part of using the senses in prayer. It is your own filter that reads it as a cheer. I’ve never thought of it as “cheerleading”.

What I’m talking about is fists together and rotating in a few cirlces, and then on the “ya” part, the hands open. pretty simple, and even if it isn’t the official ASL, it looks like it could be. and people don’t have to do ASL for the whole mass for it to be something beneficial.

 

[Phemie]

No I’m not misunderstanding you. That is the sign for Alleluia…that is done around the country. (whether ASL or not, doesn’t matter). People do that all over the country as part of a sign when singing the Alleluia. its part of using the senses in prayer. It is your own filter that reads it as a cheer. I’ve never thought of it as “cheerleading”.

What I’m talking about is fists together and rotating in a few cirlces, and then on the “ya” part, the hands open. pretty simple, and even if it isn’t the official ASL, it looks like it could be. and people don’t have to do ASL for the whole mass for it to be something beneficial.

Oh come on, it’s gesture for gesture sake. It adds nothing to the solemnity of Mass, in fact it detracts from it, unless you’re signing the entire song because you have someone in the assembly who reads ASL and would benefit from it.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Well, I was never told what the movements meant and it certainly looked like people were having a fun time dancing or trying to dance to the “Ollie, lo, la” and not singing the Alleluia and making beautiful graceful hand movements. For those how didn’t quite get the hang of it because of the quickness of the music, they would look at others and try to copy. I didn’t think this was beneficial to worship or even giving adequate praise to God.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

No I’m not misunderstanding you. That is the sign for Alleluia…that is done around the country. (whether ASL or not, doesn’t matter). People do that all over the country as part of a sign when singing the Alleluia. its part of using the senses in prayer. It is your own filter that reads it as a cheer. I’ve never thought of it as “cheerleading”.

What I’m talking about is fists together and rotating in a few cirlces, and then on the “ya” part, the hands open. pretty simple, and even if it isn’t the official ASL, it looks like it could be. and people don’t have to do ASL for the whole mass for it to be something beneficial.

I travel somewhat, and I have only seen it in a small parish in Texas that also does the hand jive for “And also with you” that resembles the motions for the song, “This Old Man.” I would have expected to see it in the Diocese of Oakland or the Diocese of Sacramento. No. No hand motions. And nobody does it here, not in Rockford, not in the Archdiocese, not in Joliet, not in Peoria, not in Belleville.

 

[twosweetgirls]

^Okay, what are these hand signs you guys are referring to? I’ve not seen them–THANKFULLY–in my parish so far. . . though I’m sure I’d know it if I did.

 

[VociMike]

No I’m not misunderstanding you. That is the sign for Alleluia…that is done around the country. (whether ASL or not, doesn’t matter). People do that all over the country as part of a sign when singing the Alleluia. its part of using the senses in prayer. It is your own filter that reads it as a cheer. I’ve never thought of it as “cheerleading”.

What I’m talking about is fists together and rotating in a few cirlces, and then on the “ya” part, the hands open. pretty simple, and even if it isn’t the official ASL, it looks like it could be. and people don’t have to do ASL for the whole mass for it to be something beneficial.

If the intent were truly to do something beneficial for the Hard of Hearing, here is what the HoH would gain from it:

blah…blah…blah…blah…blah…Alleluia!..blah…blah…blah…blah…blah…blah…

Real useful, don’t you think?

As somebody else said, it is purely gesture for gesture’s sake.

 

[Sarabande]

what are the choir members and cantor smoking? I honestly don’t think I have heard this at Mass since college, late 60s

We had to sing Kumbaya all the time in grade school. That was in the mid to late 80s/early 90s. Although, I think we stopped singing Kumbaya by 1990. Sister and two teachers would lead us with guitar for our masses.

 

[Sarabande]

Once in a while they would do hand gestures for music for the school masses when I was a kid - not often though.

The only times I’ve seen the use of sign language during mass were for special masses, and I’ve done quite a lot of traveling. They usually employed about 2 or 3 ladies (usually) who stood towards the front of the cathedral or the church and they would sign the entire mass along with the words to the music. That was much different than the gestures we used for some of those masses in grade school, and I think it was much more meaningful for the hearing impaired.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

^Okay, what are these hand signs you guys are referring to? I’ve not seen them–THANKFULLY–in my parish so far. . . though I’m sure I’d know it if I did.

There is a set of motions, such as children do at summer camp or preschool, to some P&W songs. “Lord I lift your name on high” and everybody raises their hands. “Ollie, ollie, ollie, looo-ya” has a kind of dance step and hand rolls, where a person makes two fists, and rolls one hand around the other.

On the other point- Have you ever learned “This old man? He played one. He played knick-knack on my thumb. With a knick-knack paddy whack, give a dog a bone. This old man came rolling home!” when you were a kid? And you rolled your hands at the “rolling home” part? When I went to my friend’s parish in central Texas, the priest did a kind of roll with his hands, then opened his hands when he said, “The Lord be with you.” And the congregants all rolled their hands back at him, then opened them when they said, “And also with you.” Every time! It was weird.

I have since seen it discussed at CAF. It’s kind of a “back atcha” that isn’t authorized as a gesture in GIRM.

 

[daeve]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this ollie ollie alleluia. And Kumbaya? Not since about 1968.

Don’t be shooting the choir. For one thing, we don’t pick the songs. Our choir director is TOLD what to use each week by the liturgy committee, consisting of priests and deacons, and a couple other people. If it was up to us, we’d never sing Lord of the Dance again. And the second thing is, if you don’t like what we’re doing, you’re welcome to join up and fix the problem.

As for the basic thread…I really hate the Calypso Gloria. We have decreed no more hand clapping during this thing, and we only sing it once a year, but sadly it’s on Easter morning.

Signed Masses are really beautiful, even if you don’t know much ASL. My parish in Brooklyn had them. We were the pilot program back in 1988. My son was 8 and loved to go to that one. He learned to sign the whole Mass. My neighborhood parish has someone signing at 10:30 Mass every Sunday. They also have the guitar Mass, played by the same guy for the last 40 years at noon, and the Latin Mass at 3pm. This is every single week. If you can’t find a Mass that works for you at Assumption in St. Louis County, you ain’t trying. Every single one is packed to the rafters too.

 

[dandn5000]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this ollie ollie alleluia. And Kumbaya? Not since about 1968.

Don’t be shooting the choir. For one thing, we don’t pick the songs. Our choir director is TOLD what to use each week by the liturgy committee, consisting of priests and deacons, and a couple other people. If it was up to us, we’d never sing Lord of the Dance again. And the second thing is, if you don’t like what we’re doing, you’re welcome to join up and fix the problem.

As for the basic thread…I really hate the Calypso Gloria. We have decreed no more hand clapping during this thing, and we only sing it once a year, but sadly it’s on Easter morning.

Signed Masses are really beautiful, even if you don’t know much ASL. My parish in Brooklyn had them. We were the pilot program back in 1988. My son was 8 and loved to go to that one. He learned to sign the whole Mass. My neighborhood parish has someone signing at 10:30 Mass every Sunday. They also have the guitar Mass, played by the same guy for the last 40 years at noon, and the Latin Mass at 3pm. This is every single week. If you can’t find a Mass that works for you at Assumption in St. Louis County, you ain’t trying. Every single one is packed to the rafters too.

Sounds like a nice parish to be in. Something for everybody.

And I’m with you on Lord of the Dance. We had a debate in science class over that song once. I thought that it was stupid and the lyrics tended to oversimplify what happened to Jesus throughout his life, especially the Crucifixion. I got asked, and I quote, by my teacher: “Do you understand the symbolism behind it?” I about died. Of course I do, and I feel that it reduces the Crucifixion especially to a mere dance with the annoyance of a devil on his back. Everybody disagreed with me. Then everybody wanted to do that song for the entrance song at our graduation Mass, and our homeroom teacher put her foot down and said, “This choice isn’t a democratic one, and that song is not going anywhere near this Mass.” I about leapt for joy.

 

[jmcrae]

Sounds like a nice parish to be in. Something for everybody.

And I’m with you on Lord of the Dance. We had a debate in science class over that song once.

Just curious - what kind of science were you studying in that class?

 

[Jimsdun]

No I’m not misunderstanding you. That is the sign for Alleluia…that is done around the country. (whether ASL or not, doesn’t matter). People do that all over the country as part of a sign when singing the Alleluia. its part of using the senses in prayer. It is your own filter that reads it as a cheer. I’ve never thought of it as “cheerleading”.

What I’m talking about is fists together and rotating in a few cirlces, and then on the “ya” part, the hands open. pretty simple, and even if it isn’t the official ASL, it looks like it could be. and people don’t have to do ASL for the whole mass for it to be something beneficial.

I always thought that the rotating fists during allelulia was ASL, which would be done by the hearing impaired section. Perhaps someone thought it was cute, and spread it out to the rest of the congregation.

As far as I’m concerned, it is kindergarten-y

 

[Jimsdun]

I always thought that the rotating fists during allelulia was ASL, which would be done by the hearing impaired section. Perhaps someone thought it was cute, and spread it out to the rest of the congregation.

As far as I’m concerned, it is kindergarten-y

Also I have had my ear slapped too many times by the person next to me doing this jesture, so I now avoid masses where this is done.

 

[Jimsdun]

That is, regarding contemporary praise choruses in the Mass.

To put it as succinctly as I can: NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!
AY-MEN, AY-MEN, AY-MEN!
(Sing it on down now). . .

Yes, they actually did the "Sing it on down now. . . " in between. NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

The only thing I could do was sit there and offer up my fumings. OMGosh, it was so bad–complete with electric guitar and speakers. And they were even practicing right before the Rosary started, so bye-bye contemplative sweet silence.

So I fully understand now why there are so many here who hate praise choruses in the Mass. Count me among you.

I second that emotion
When the most beautiful part of the mass “*Through Him, With Him, In Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours almighty Father, forever and ever” *

is **immediately followed [and ruined] by a disturbing guitar chord, then a hideous

**“Aaaaaaaay-men
Aaaaaaaay-men
Aaaaaaaay-men
Aaaaaaaay-men
Aaaaaaaay-men we dooooo be-leeeeeve.”

 

[Sam_Maloney]

My musical pet peeve-- the one that occurs all the time in my parish-- is found in all the OCP publications: a version of the Gloria scored by Michael ANdersen. I’ve heard it done with a [small] dash of reverence elsewhere, but our keyboardist plays it with a swing rhythum reminiscent of ‘The Stripper’, if you are familiar with that gem…

In my family, we refer to it as ‘The Bump-n-Grind Gloria’. Causes children under 12 to wiggle their bums and point their fingers like Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.